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[G] PvT 3 Gate Aggressive Expo - Page 15

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
July 12 2011 12:04 GMT
#281
hey cecil, how do you deal with a thor rush with this build? i find that im unable to get anything out that is able to hit the thor hard enough to beat the repair as well as to deal with the marines with it
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
July 12 2011 12:07 GMT
#282
On July 12 2011 21:04 unit wrote:
hey cecil, how do you deal with a thor rush with this build? i find that im unable to get anything out that is able to hit the thor hard enough to beat the repair as well as to deal with the marines with it

If you did this build and managed to do some damage, you essentially delayed his thor all-in. You want to throw down a robo and throw down 2 more gates whilst cutting probes to ONLY produce units. Target fire the thors with immortals appropriately and you'll do fine.
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
July 12 2011 17:59 GMT
#283
On July 12 2011 21:07 MooMooMugi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2011 21:04 unit wrote:
hey cecil, how do you deal with a thor rush with this build? i find that im unable to get anything out that is able to hit the thor hard enough to beat the repair as well as to deal with the marines with it

If you did this build and managed to do some damage, you essentially delayed his thor all-in. You want to throw down a robo and throw down 2 more gates whilst cutting probes to ONLY produce units. Target fire the thors with immortals appropriately and you'll do fine.

thank you, i tried a few things in practice with a friend, and couldnt figure out anything that worked other than dt (sniping the scvs) when i thought that ht wouldve worked (didnt go quite as planned)

one question was that robo then g4+5 or g4+5 then robo?
Vega62a
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
946 Posts
July 12 2011 18:23 GMT
#284
Something to point out here that I didn't see mentioned in the thread (hopefully I didn't just miss it) is a discussion of how it fits in with standard Terran stim timings. I believe the earliest Terran can get stim out is something like 7:00, and once stim is out you are basically unable to run up the ramp without an overwhelming advantage. This is important because a 2-rax can have both stim and concussive out by 7 minutes, and if you even try to run up the ramp when they're both finished (just to poke) you're going to lose a lot of stuff.

However, in standard terran openings (concussive first, 1 tech lab) I believe stim tends to finish around 9:00, which gives you a bit more leeway. Since this build seems to hit AROUND the 7:00 mark (slightly earlier, in the Alicia game I think it was 6:30 or so) it's important to keep in mind when stim is going to finish so you can get out without losing too much. (No early concussive shell + tech lab on barracks = probably fast stim.)

This build does basically hard-counter tech builds, even cloakshee. Although a cloaked banshee in your base basically puts you all-in, you're unlikely to lose in a base race.
Content of my posts reflects only my personal opinions, and not those of any employer or subsidiary
LagT_T
Profile Joined March 2010
Argentina535 Posts
July 12 2011 19:58 GMT
#285
Your replay vs cloakshee is a joke. Please post a game against a decent 1/1/1 cloakshee build.
"The tactics... no. Amateurs discuss tactics, professional soldiers study logistics." - Tom Clancy, Red Storm Rising
CardinalSC
Profile Joined January 2011
United States145 Posts
July 28 2011 20:27 GMT
#286
In Day9 Daily #314 HwangSin PvT, HwangSin opts for 6 sentries and a more Stalker heavy followup and manages to still throw down his Nexus relatively fast. In addition, He skips the first zealot and does no poke, seeing a tech lab with his probe and sniping a reaper. What are your thoughts on this versus the traditional 5 Sentry 1 Stalker 4 Zealot Push?
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
July 28 2011 23:57 GMT
#287
Might I suggest that you get the 3 sentries warped in before the 3 zealots? It would not only allow you to get a quicker nexus and more probes but additional energy. + You could warp in those zealots at a proxy pylon.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
July 29 2011 00:01 GMT
#288
On July 29 2011 08:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Might I suggest that you get the 3 sentries warped in before the 3 zealots? It would not only allow you to get a quicker nexus and more probes but additional energy. + You could warp in those zealots at a proxy pylon.


Zealots have quicker cooldown timer, so warping them in first gives you a quicker attack!
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
July 29 2011 02:35 GMT
#289
On July 29 2011 09:01 Complete wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 08:57 kineSiS- wrote:
Might I suggest that you get the 3 sentries warped in before the 3 zealots? It would not only allow you to get a quicker nexus and more probes but additional energy. + You could warp in those zealots at a proxy pylon.


Zealots have quicker cooldown timer, so warping them in first gives you a quicker attack!

Actually the attack is the same time no matter the order. If you want the Sentries first, go for it. I just prefer to have the zealots first because I feel more safe warping the sentries in, rather than having them around the map in a pretty vulnerable state. More a matter of style/preference imo, but a faster nexus + a little more sentry energy could be really good.
noobcakes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States526 Posts
August 07 2011 17:10 GMT
#290
So many times I use this build against terran, their like "holy hell 4gate?!??"
Professional BattleCraft Player
Snaphoo
Profile Joined July 2010
United States614 Posts
August 10 2011 17:33 GMT
#291
After losing to Terran all-ins in my last 4 games I've given up on 1 Gate FE for the time being; definitely want to try this build out. 2 questions:

a) Has this replaced the 2 Gate Expand (Naniwa variation) for most people, as it is safer against 1-1-1?

b) How should you react if Terran has a full wall-off at his ramp?
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-11 09:08:25
August 11 2011 09:07 GMT
#292
This build is 100% worse against 1-1-1 in all considerable aspects. Unless the T is so bad that you are somehow able to break the ramp with a 3 gate push.

Early on you are in no danger anyways, and later on the expansion will not have payed off.

3 gate expo was supposed to punish 1 rax expands where terran floats the CC down too greedily early.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
August 11 2011 20:40 GMT
#293
I'd like to note that this build was only ever done once or twice ever in the pro scene. It is not the standard 3 gate very commonly done in PvT. I think you should make a note of this in the beginning of your guide. Many people search for a 3 gate PvT build on teamliquid and since there is no guide for the standard 3 gate, they refer to this and think it's the standard.
Moderator
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
August 11 2011 20:59 GMT
#294
On August 12 2011 05:40 4kmonk wrote:
I'd like to note that this build was only ever done once or twice ever in the pro scene. It is not the standard 3 gate very commonly done in PvT. I think you should make a note of this in the beginning of your guide. Many people search for a 3 gate PvT build on teamliquid and since there is no guide for the standard 3 gate, they refer to this and think it's the standard.


On August 11 2011 18:07 sleepingdog wrote:
This build is 100% worse against 1-1-1 in all considerable aspects. Unless the T is so bad that you are somehow able to break the ramp with a 3 gate push.

Early on you are in no danger anyways, and later on the expansion will not have payed off.

3 gate expo was supposed to punish 1 rax expands where terran floats the CC down too greedily early.

Yeah both of you are right, I'll include something in the intro.
Punkdp1p3r
Profile Joined January 2011
United States30 Posts
August 11 2011 21:09 GMT
#295
This is a very good build. I have starte dusing it in PvT as of late (after coming back form an extended break). My preference is stalker/sentry, especially if the Terran does an FE. This allows the stlakers to kill off marines (effective early game) while the sentries hold off reinforcments/scv surorunds/repairs and limit the number of fighting Terrans. The zealots are good for a ramp bust but I find counterintuitive if used other than that.
"Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori."
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
August 11 2011 21:54 GMT
#296
--- Nuked ---
darklight54321
Profile Joined July 2011
United States361 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-14 04:29:21
August 13 2011 14:29 GMT
#297
I've noticed that this is somewhat effective v a 1/1/1 build in that it's easy to scout the 1/1/1 build and potentially delays it by scaring them. But thats the only good part about it.

edit: SCaring them doesn't turn out for the best ometimes as i just learned. The guy pulled out all his scvs when making his delayed push.

happened 3 times today
Karliath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2214 Posts
August 22 2011 12:51 GMT
#298
I was going to ask what I could do against 2 bunkers on top of the ramp, but now I'm thinking that I should probably FF contain right? Btw, does the FF go on the bottom or the middle of the ramp?
DeanMalinco
Profile Joined September 2010
United States43 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-22 17:30:53
August 22 2011 17:30 GMT
#299
when doing the sentry contain, what is the balance of macroing probes/tech/units? In a lot of cases you hold the terran so long he has no other option but to make a army with medivac's and bust out. knowing when i need to leave and return home is not the problem, but getting all-in'd/attacked directly after is.

are you guys,
adding 2 more gates? (if not, are you hitting every production cycle off 3 and sneaking in probes?)
chronoing probes?
getting forge upgrades?
getting a robo for obs?
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
August 22 2011 17:47 GMT
#300
On August 23 2011 02:30 DeanMalinco wrote:
when doing the sentry contain, what is the balance of macroing probes/tech/units? In a lot of cases you hold the terran so long he has no other option but to make a army with medivac's and bust out. knowing when i need to leave and return home is not the problem, but getting all-in'd/attacked directly after is.

are you guys,
adding 2 more gates? (if not, are you hitting every production cycle off 3 and sneaking in probes?)
chronoing probes?
getting forge upgrades?
getting a robo for obs?


Just play standard like you normally would as if you never contained the terran in the first place. I keep making probes while teching to colossus. My robo goes up pretty much as soon as I warp in my first sentry to set up the contain.

Yes an all-in could be difficult to hold, but it's no different from an all-in if you never contained him in the first place.

While the contain is great, keep in mind that it doesn't actually give you a huge advantage. 2 orbital terran on 1 base will still have a similar econ to you on 2 bases (at least until you manage to saturate both bases, which takes awhile).
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