Terrible move to let some of his lings in like that, if you'd just cleanly FF'd his army out and then step-shot backwards with your Stalkers you wouldn't have lost so much. You should've killed the ovie that went for your probes by targeting it with cannons+stakers. And if you watched the minmap you could've easily saved your probes from the drop on your main.

This is really allin too because he's getting drop and speed upgrades as well as a ton of ling/baneling which costs a lot of larva so he's going to have very few drones. It's fine losing a handful of probes/stalkers to fend it off cleanly. You also ought to be more active with your hallu-phoenix, it's pretty easy to spot this kind of stuff

1st_Panzer_Div.

United States621 Posts

March 17 2011 22:10 GMT

#102

On March 16 2011 10:45 Validity wrote:

Show nested quote +

Oh I'm playing against people much higher than 3700 due to mmr but thanks.

You're saying that it comes way before voidrays but the speed of the attack was completely dependant on your lack of agression and letting him get to 41 drones (read: 2 drones on every mineral patch, 6 on gas + some to spare) before he had to do anything. The attack hit at 11 minutes. That's really easy to a couple immortals/VR's off a 3 gate expand.

Oh and you had 6 sentries 2 cannons and 1 zealot at 10 minutes. I wonder why an attack killed you. You didn't have pylons around your base either. I thought that was basic for a super pro 3600 masters who can decide that everyone else who posts are "bronze league professionals." He could have ling roach dropped you and had the exact same effect (his timing was off too as a roach ling drop can hit at 10 minutes, provided he gets to drone for free at start).

Also yes, FF's would have kept your nat safe because your obs saw the lings running in (didn't react till your stalker shot them though), which would have let you FF all of the out/prep units/spread since you see overlords + baneling nest). Maybe not using 1 control group for all your army would help too (yes, you have like each individual unit on a diff hotkey but really, you just used 5 to select all of them), ie stalkers on 1 and zealot sentry on 2.

Btw 8 minute scout of bling nest > drop stargate lets you get 2 voidrays out fine for an 11 minute attack. And getting a stargate following an expand is great regardless in pvz because VRs can be mixed into any army composition/make pre hydra aggression painful for z and being able to mix in phoenix if he suicides by going muta is great too.

Your thread really seems like "oh hey i let a terran a rax no gas fe to a gold and then he did a 7 rax stim shield +1 timing attack and it destroyed me, what can i do against this imba strat," and when people tell you not to let him fe to the gold off 1 rax no gas you call them incompetant.

oh hey lookie being aggressive = both hitting 45 workers at a similar time! No, he didn't go blings but if he did then it would have been with a much lower economy/later.

A lowly master toss here, but have to say that I agree with Validity 100% and both his analysis of the OP's replay, and of using VR to counter.

SaroVati

Canada280 Posts

March 18 2011 04:05 GMT

#103

Oh Amandil I agree, it was an awful game on my part as well. Rocking the solid like 100APM isn't my norm, and the 2 seconds of mis-micro when I pushed you cost me 6 sentries and my colossus + a couple stalkers. However again, I am not completely ready to play against this build. This was mostly improv'd so if I actually ran into this again, I would've warped 3 stalkers in my mineral line, and then the push would've just crumbled period. The mis-micro was indeed a problem, but my mis-macro was god awful this game as well, and it easily could've been my game.

My main problem is that zerg now just transitions into more speedlings with +1/+1, blings, and corrupters..... I'm thinking sentries are the answer but that cuts lots of gas for tier 3 units necessary to crush a zerg...

Fushin

France193 Posts

March 19 2011 17:46 GMT

#104

I engaged today with a 200/200 army with stalker colossus void ray, against baneling in overlords/speedlings/roach speed. Bascally either you stand and fight and you get the banelings up your a.. (cause if he sac enough dummy overlords he'll get the drop done), or you fallback and lose troops to en the main army.

Seriously i had 10 void ray, but that just wasn't enough. I lost my whole army in a couple of second...
And here in 1.3, they're removing the archon toilet ! It's exactly the same !! But with t1.5/t2 tech...

Serously, this is imbalanced and totally broken, i really can't figure what to do against this flying ball of doom...

brutality

United States167 Posts

April 07 2011 18:22 GMT

#105

On March 20 2011 02:46 Fushin wrote:
I engaged today with a 200/200 army with stalker colossus void ray, against baneling in overlords/speedlings/roach speed. Bascally either you stand and fight and you get the banelings up your a.. (cause if he sac enough dummy overlords he'll get the drop done), or you fallback and lose troops to en the main army.

Seriously i had 10 void ray, but that just wasn't enough. I lost my whole army in a couple of second...
And here in 1.3, they're removing the archon toilet ! It's exactly the same !! But with t1.5/t2 tech...

Serously, this is imbalanced and totally broken, i really can't figure what to do against this flying ball of doom...

you really shouldn't say something is imbalanced b/c you lost to a strat and can't figure out a decent answer to how to beat it. you lost to it because you did something wrong or because you don't have the proper mechanics to deal with it.

I just lost twice in a row to the carpet bomb strat and just wanted to see what other people were doing to deal with this. my mistake in both games were bad FF. you're supposed to FF the zerglings and move back your main army while kiting the overlords with your stalkers. derp derp have to use multiple hotkeys for army

control click works too i guess... i've been told that the 6 gate push works well or throwing down double stargate phoenix after you scout the nest and prob the double evo. I know incontrol talked about this on his stream but couldn't find a thread about him talking about it

any other suggestions on how to deal with carpet bombing zergs? and i'm not talking about baneling bombs on your mineral line

Solo Artist

United States1 Post

April 07 2011 21:52 GMT

#106

As a zerg main i know for a fact that a toss getting an early stargate creates immediate problems for me as i am forced to spend unneeded larvae on spores hydras or more queens to stop the income voids and or pheonixes if you let a zerg have his way like you did in that video hes gonna poopie all over you to be honest an early 3 gate would have made him waste his economy while you teched from pheonix to vr im obviously not at m your level of play but i know my races weakness and its early aggression try to stay away from zealots as most zerg enjoy crushing zealots with roaches/banelings..hope this helps brah

VictorX

United States773 Posts

April 07 2011 22:00 GMT

#107

Without needing to deviate from your build, I offer that the best solution is to spread your stalkers out. When you scout Roachless Hydraless Zerg, then the front can immediately be defended easily with Zealot/Sentry, good control, and building walls. Forcefields deny any frontal attack, which is why so many Zergs doing speedling/baneling opt to use overdrop.

When you consider that only zealot/sentry is required to defend the front, and that stalkers are fast enough to rush to the front if an attack does come, it would be wise to spread your stalkers around as you would against a terran MMM drop, just to deny those overlords. Then get cannons at your mineral line (since speedling/baneling transitions smoothly into muta or infestor harass and you need cannons to thwart either)

Hope this helps ^^
Master Random 50% zerg 25% terran 25% toss for what it's worth x,x

MK4512

Canada938 Posts

April 07 2011 22:06 GMT

#108

I played vs. this style yesterday! I couldn't break the zerg, but I noticed that he didn't have much in the way of AA... Perhaps a tech switch to void rays could of helped. But in general, this kind of play seems to shut down alot of agression, I tried to 3gate pressure, zerglings came in, and I made an FFbox around myself, and got banelings dropped all over my sentries... This happened multiple times during the game. Also, the zerg baneling dropped my third that had cannons and still killed all my probes!

Interesting what will evolve to combat this style...