• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:42
CEST 13:42
KST 20:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists9[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers6Maestros of the Game 2 announced22026 GSL Tour plans announced4Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail0MaNa leaves Team Liquid18
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Maestros of the Game 2 announced Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data needed A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group B [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2320 users

[H] 3 roach+speedling all-in PvZ - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 40 41 42 Next All
echuchee
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States71 Posts
February 02 2011 04:55 GMT
#61
On February 02 2011 13:42 confusedcrib wrote:
This is a replay of me getting an immortal and two warp gates at around 5:40. It's worth testing instead of being all high and mighty about other peoples advice. It's worth trying as my build is not optimized in the least.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ttqasdfku14hq4p


Yeah, uh, immortals won't really cut it. To get one out in time, you must cut from the already small enough gateway force and the lings will just tear through it once they get through.
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6260 Posts
February 02 2011 04:55 GMT
#62
I suggest getting a practice partner who does this again and again to you. This way, you'll get to try out different techniques and find one that works best for you.
Lunat!c
Profile Joined March 2010
122 Posts
February 02 2011 04:55 GMT
#63
I played against this build sometimes too I even had 2 stalker and no sentry still they just destroyed me.
imareaver3
Profile Joined June 2010
United States906 Posts
February 02 2011 04:57 GMT
#64
If you had dropped forge the second the warren went down, you would definitely have had up to two cannons before the roaches hit your front, though it would be close. (Cannon+forge=90 seconds, Warren+Roach=72 seconds, and the rush distance makes up for the rest) I'm not sure if there is any way for the Z to either transition out of the build or continue to put pressure on you after the cannons went up--as he would not be able to know that you had dropped a forge until the cannons were started. That's the only solution that I can think of--you seem to have tried everything else. The timings seem right, but I suppose that it needs testing.
Tivo
Profile Joined August 2010
United States121 Posts
February 02 2011 05:00 GMT
#65
On February 02 2011 13:55 echuchee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2011 13:42 confusedcrib wrote:
This is a replay of me getting an immortal and two warp gates at around 5:40. It's worth testing instead of being all high and mighty about other peoples advice. It's worth trying as my build is not optimized in the least.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ttqasdfku14hq4p


Yeah, uh, immortals won't really cut it. To get one out in time, you must cut from the already small enough gateway force and the lings will just tear through it once they get through.

then instead of immortals make it a void ray
Arir
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland60 Posts
February 02 2011 05:02 GMT
#66
I used similar build during beta on still on steppes. Why this works? It strikes just before warp upgrade on break ramp with roaches.

In this game you had 1 non-chronoboosted gate vs 1 hatch with constant injects. thats pretty bad match up no matter what units you make. You chronoboosted your warp upgrade which unfortunately didnt help to stop this.

So if you scout the build incoming you may have to plan stopping it without finishing warp technology. Whether it be using forge cannons or chrono boosting units from multiple gates before warp is done. Zerg is on 14 drones without any tech so you can use whatever to hold this and be fine. At least 1 non-chronoboosted gate and rushed warp upgrade wasnt enough.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
February 02 2011 05:02 GMT
#67
On February 02 2011 13:48 Orome wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2011 13:35 travis wrote:
On February 02 2011 13:29 echuchee wrote:
Well one way to stop it was to do exactly what you were doing(keep cranking sentries out). You could have had a 3rd sentry out if you cancelled the sentry that was no where near being finished. Then made ure gateway a warpgate and warped the sentry in. You should be able to permanently keep it out after warpgate tech finishes.
~3k Masters


no... watch the replay carefully. there is no way to keep forcefielding the ramp in time to keep the roaches out. u don't have enough forcefields. and then as soon as the roaches get up ur zealot dies, and ur sentries will be next to die


Alright, I just tried this out in single player (with my patchy p too, I'm sure it'd be possible to do it a few seconds faster). You put down your first FF at 5:11. If you chrono out sentries, you have 2 sentries at 5:11 with the third building. By the time the third FF wears off, your first sentry has enough energy for a fourth FF. By the time that wears off, you easily have a fourth sentry out and your warpgate research finishes.

What am I not getting here?


it might be able to get enough sentries if u chrono them before u even know the attack is coming...
uSnAmplified
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1029 Posts
February 02 2011 05:07 GMT
#68
Its just another stupidly powerful all in, ive had it happen to me when i 3 gate sentry expand and it pretty much hard counters it, you simply do not have the production to defend yourself at the time it usually comes.

If you rush to immortal then thats a huge resource sink and its countered by the majority of the zergs force, zerglings, the roaches are just their to take out the zealot wall in. Also you would have to blindly go for a fast robo, not good in pvz unless you plan on being cute with +1 zealot drop or something.

You could possibly get the forge up but i think if you dropped the forge purely off what you were scouting and not blindly putting it down it would be to late between forge + cannon build time.
~
seanisgrand
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1039 Posts
February 02 2011 05:07 GMT
#69
I too was hit with this build today @ 3k diamond on steppes. Completely crushed me doing a standard sentry heavy 3 gate expand. Roachling hit when i had 2 sentry 1 zeal and despite holding the push I had nearly nothing as I had to pull probes. He quickly ended it with speedlings afterward.
This is well below quality expected of a post in any forum. -Empyrean
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
February 02 2011 05:08 GMT
#70
Jesus. That's a scary timing. Thanks for posting--you just ensured that every good Z is about to start doing this. I'd need to practice against it, but I think the double gas is a mistake for sure. Unless you can get enough sentries to FF the ramp forever, the sentries are just going to wind up delaying for 30 sec and then being crappy combat units when he gets in. Think of it like a PvP 4 gate. 1 sentry to cut the army in half is great, but more than that and your army sucks when he does get up.

Robo is definitely not the answer. Cannons would work to defend it, but really, if Z going 13 pool into roach warren on 1 base means you have to sink 600 minerals into static defense, the MU is unwinnable. They could just skip the units, double expand and they win.

I'd try to defend by staying on 1 gas and going mostly zealots with a sentry or 2 just to cut the army in half. If you cut probes to get a super fast second gate after your core, I think you could have a significant force of zealots at that timing. Then you let some lings in, forcefield the rest out, and try to clean up. You can afford to pull probes and lose some.
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-02 05:11:00
February 02 2011 05:08 GMT
#71
Firstly, this guy threw down the roach warren at 2:55 - so let's just say at 3:00 you would scout this, which is totally assumable because he has nothing to stop you from looking around his base for as long as you want. Even when his two lings pop, he has to still chase you.

Secondly, a forge has a 45 second build time, and a cannon has a 40 second build time. With your forcefields, it was 5:40 until he was able to climb your ramp. That's 160 seconds to get your forge and cannons, and it takes less than a minute and a half to do so - two minutes if you want to do it really non chalantly.

What's the problem with this Travis?

On February 02 2011 14:08 kcdc wrote:
Cannons would work to defend it, but really, if Z going 13 pool into roach warren on 1 base means you have to sink 600 minerals into static defense, the MU is unwinnable. They could just skip the units, double expand and they win.


That's ridiculous. They have 14 drones and no tech. You will have close to 25 probes yourself, and you can start to tech. It's a tricky all-in at best - but there has been nothing to suggest it's even that hard to beat.
squeejero22
Profile Joined October 2010
United States26 Posts
February 02 2011 05:09 GMT
#72
Delay more, Build more units, Build better units, use probes. It's quick, but it's just an all in timing you're not used to. Treat it more like an all in.
My name's Squee, dammit.
squeejero22
Profile Joined October 2010
United States26 Posts
February 02 2011 05:10 GMT
#73
Also, I always drop my gw on 12 just to help with chz against Z
My name's Squee, dammit.
Abstinence
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States328 Posts
February 02 2011 05:10 GMT
#74
Well, you scouted a 13 pool. Only things that come to mind for me are speedling expand, roach rush, 1 base muta, or 1 base nydus. Chrono sentry. Why wouldn't you? It completely blocks standard roach rushes, 1 base muta fails, you're not hurt by it if he speedling expands, and no one nydus's effectively. You see he does not take guys off gas -> eliminates speedling expand. You see he throws down a roach warren -> continue chrono'ing sentries. Then you can forcefield...

Lastly, wtf @ the zerglings running by your units...
Phanekim
Profile Joined April 2003
United States777 Posts
February 02 2011 05:14 GMT
#75
clearly you need to put up 3 cannons travis. haha. i only bothered to check replay cause you started post.

time to make the map pool better. bigger maps usually solve everything.
i like cheese
Lamabot
Profile Joined October 2010
32 Posts
February 02 2011 05:17 GMT
#76
I think the first problem was your investment into post-warpgate. You spent just about every single chronoboost on warpgate tech and as a result suffered from quite a shortage of units. Perhaps chronoboosting units out (as long as you have scouted it, your probe should be alive for long enough to stop the roach warren) would give you a stronger army to fight or a higher sentry count.

Since you invested into heavy warpgate count, it was in your best interest to close off the wall completely once you started to see you don't have enough sentries to hold it. Additional units after walloff is broken could have perhaps held it off.

You continue producing a sentry out of a gateway after your warpgate has been researched. Cancelling that sentry and ordering warpgate should have gave you a third sentry in time for a third forcefield.

So TL;DR: You invested in warpgate so you should have delayed at all cost until your warpgates are in effect.


2760 Masters (P)
morimacil
Profile Joined March 2010
France921 Posts
February 02 2011 05:19 GMT
#77
Cannons would work to defend it, but really, if Z going 13 pool into roach warren on 1 base means you have to sink 600 minerals into static defense, the MU is unwinnable. They could just skip the units, double expand and they win.

hell, isn't it ridiculous to have to forge in this spot at all? "oh the only way to hold off this rush is to get cannons"

like if zerg was 1basing and had to get spine crawlers, it's the only way to live.


Somehow you guys seem to think that if you have to account for a possible all-in from zerg, it suddenly makes the matchup unwinnable
As the roach warren went down, it was 14 drones vs 19 probes. If you have to cut a few probes, and invest a bit in defense to defend the all-in, its really not the end of the world.
Zerg has to deal with this every match. Do you think its for fun that we invest in early ling speed, patrol a drone at the bottom of our ramp, or throw down a spine crawler as soon as we see any sign of a possible 2rax?

Seems like you are just used to the fact that zerg cant touch you. If it helps, think of it as a terran or toss cheese. Yes, you need to scout, and make an investment to hold it off, but you are ahead, if you can hold the cheese, you win.
perptuity
Profile Joined February 2011
8 Posts
February 02 2011 05:20 GMT
#78
I think imareaver3 is right,
I like to think of this build in the same category as 6 pool. you have to treat this build as a cheesy all in and wall in might be ur best option, since zerg would not be able to transition out of it smoothly, ur 4 gate was 10sec away from kicking in. 1 zealot, 2 sentry + 4 warp unit, u literally lost the game by 10 secs.

Here is how i assume it'd go in a game without knowing which build zerg uses. once the early early roach warren is scouted, toss should go 4 gate, probe should be checking zerg mineral line, see if drone production is halted. if yes. wall off fully, (ofcoz chrono warpgate, get 1 sentry).

I'd assume once 4 gate kick in, hes production would not be even close.

i'm 1k master only though.
.kv
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-02 05:24:23
February 02 2011 05:21 GMT
#79
I get with this today as well and went zealot and stalkers in the beginning and still lost...ugh have you tried just chronoboosting your gateway and opt for a sentry first then start the warp gate research?

your first sentry was about 13-17 energy away from having enough energy to cast another FF...this is definitely an all-in from Zerg but the overlord spotting on the top is painful...

I think 3 gate getting the sentries...once you have enough sentries to cast FF you should be fine


---------------

I've been trying other 3gate builds where I go gateway-gas-gas-cyber to get more gas to start warp gate and the sentry at once

I need a Zerg practice partner to see if this build can hold it off

FlatLine.637

NA Server

I'm ~2800 Diamond Protoss
Silmakuoppaanikinko
Profile Joined November 2010
799 Posts
February 02 2011 05:23 GMT
#80
On February 02 2011 14:08 Salv wrote:
Firstly, this guy threw down the roach warren at 2:55 - so let's just say at 3:00 you would scout this, which is totally assumable because he has nothing to stop you from looking around his base for as long as you want. Even when his two lings pop, he has to still chase you.

Secondly, a forge has a 45 second build time, and a cannon has a 40 second build time. With your forcefields, it was 5:40 until he was able to climb your ramp. That's 160 seconds to get your forge and cannons, and it takes less than a minute and a half to do so - two minutes if you want to do it really non chalantly.

What's the problem with this Travis?

Show nested quote +
On February 02 2011 14:08 kcdc wrote:
Cannons would work to defend it, but really, if Z going 13 pool into roach warren on 1 base means you have to sink 600 minerals into static defense, the MU is unwinnable. They could just skip the units, double expand and they win.


That's ridiculous. They have 14 drones and no tech. You will have close to 25 probes yourself, and you can start to tech. It's a tricky all-in at best - but there has been nothing to suggest it's even that hard to beat.
I would have to second this, I would expect an ordinary roach rush when I scouted this though.

What I always do when I suspect a roach rush and it's close enough positions is just rally my first zealot into their base instead of trying to defend it. It'll force them to make lings and throw their carefully planned and timed build off, sometimes I'll throw an extra stalker in their too depending on how it goes. Not sure if it'll work here as the timing is pretty tight.
Workers and town centres are the ultimate counter to turtles.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 40 41 42 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
#5
RotterdaM393
TKL 176
IndyStarCraft 75
SteadfastSC74
Rex69
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
09:00
KungFu Cup 2026 Week 4
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 341
Lowko154
TKL 130
IndyStarCraft 75
SteadfastSC 74
Rex 69
ProTech23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24579
Horang2 2090
Bisu 1174
Jaedong 908
Hyuk 728
firebathero 685
Soma 368
Zeus 366
Mini 276
actioN 251
[ Show more ]
Stork 203
Pusan 196
Snow 165
Larva 161
Last 149
ZerO 137
Light 135
PianO 124
hero 90
Soulkey 84
Rush 82
Hyun 70
sorry 49
Hm[arnc] 45
[sc1f]eonzerg 43
Sharp 35
NaDa 30
Shinee 26
Sacsri 24
Bale 22
soO 21
Barracks 19
Free 19
HiyA 12
Terrorterran 12
Icarus 11
Movie 8
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
Noble 4
ggaemo 1
Dota 2
XaKoH 679
canceldota177
League of Legends
Reynor46
Counter-Strike
x6flipin425
allub177
markeloff47
Other Games
singsing1611
B2W.Neo994
DeMusliM226
Pyrionflax216
Mew2King75
QueenE15
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV1670
Counter-Strike
PGL185
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1210
• TFBlade1108
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 18m
The PondCast
22h 18m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
23h 18m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 12h
Escore
1d 22h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 23h
OSC
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
3 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL
4 days
IPSL
4 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-13
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.