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Alphafury
Profile Joined November 2011
Australia13 Posts
November 26 2011 01:13 GMT
#9321
This isn't particularly strategy related, but about 75% of my last 30 games have been PvP and I was starting to wonder why as I didnt think protoss was played so substantially more than other races. Then I thought it could be due to the maps I veto being the same as other protoss. Would this be true? Does the matchmaker choose opponent at random THEN map based on our preferences? Or am I placed in a parcticular pool based on my map preferences and then opponents are chosen from that pool (likely resulting in being matched with other protoss due to similar map preferences)?
PenguinWithNuke
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
250 Posts
November 26 2011 04:04 GMT
#9322
Did the "Milkyway drone drill" get patched out? I need a confirmation.
MooSlapper
Profile Joined November 2011
United States113 Posts
November 26 2011 05:36 GMT
#9323
When pros are getting banshee or muta harassed, as well as some other forms of harass--- i often notice that they do not pull probes. Instead, they let their probes sit there dying. It doesn't really maek sense to me---- does it really make more sense to lose all your probes for 10-20 seconds of mining time?
MooSlap OP
hulu99
Profile Joined October 2010
4 Posts
November 26 2011 06:09 GMT
#9324
when i am watching a player stream, i always see them bring up a small window with all the open programs they have.
how do they bring it up, is it a gadget? what is it called?
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 06:17:13
November 26 2011 06:13 GMT
#9325
On November 26 2011 13:04 PenguinWithNuke wrote:
Did the "Milkyway drone drill" get patched out? I need a confirmation.


nope it's still in


On November 26 2011 14:36 MooSlapper wrote:
When pros are getting banshee or muta harassed, as well as some other forms of harass--- i often notice that they do not pull probes. Instead, they let their probes sit there dying. It doesn't really maek sense to me---- does it really make more sense to lose all your probes for 10-20 seconds of mining time?


usually if they don't pull it's cus theyr'e in a situation where if they do pull, it'll take so long to fend the banshee off that you won't be mining and that will cause too much economic damage

For example, TvT, cloak banshee, if u have only 1 OC and no raven nor turrets, u keep mining cus even if u scan and kill 1 banshee, u know there's just another one coming, and you can't stop mining for that long.


On November 26 2011 10:13 Alphafury wrote:
This isn't particularly strategy related, but about 75% of my last 30 games have been PvP and I was starting to wonder why as I didnt think protoss was played so substantially more than other races. Then I thought it could be due to the maps I veto being the same as other protoss. Would this be true? Does the matchmaker choose opponent at random THEN map based on our preferences? Or am I placed in a parcticular pool based on my map preferences and then opponents are chosen from that pool (likely resulting in being matched with other protoss due to similar map preferences)?



The map is picked first.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 06:21:13
November 26 2011 06:20 GMT
#9326
On November 25 2011 22:51 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2011 21:12 Ganseng wrote:
On November 25 2011 20:43 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Hi

I went banshee today vs a Z, and He made hydras. SO many of them.


They were actually pretty nice...they have low hp but their dps is unbeievable..

And I know mass hellions may work, but its not cost effective.

I dont like using tanks. Any other solutions?

Im concerned with hydras...they are strong, but weak in HP.


thors.
ghosts with snipe as well if you have quick hands.

Thanks

Any more ? I used thors, but they get damaged pretty fast too.

And is it really true thors 1 shot hydras? 3 upgraded thors right?


No, that is horrible advice from Ganseng. That'll only work in small numbers, where 1 Thor can attack 3 hydras at the same time. However, in mass numbers, the hydralisks will win because multiple layers of hydralisks can attack 1 thor layer at a time since thors are so much bigger.

Sorry you'll have to use tanks.

Mass marine/medivac works as well, it is a soft counter.

Also, hellions are cost efficient, if we're talking about pure hellion vs pure hydra. But obviously you will need more supply.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 06:30:11
November 26 2011 06:20 GMT
#9327
On November 26 2011 15:09 hulu99 wrote:
when i am watching a player stream, i always see them bring up a small window with all the open programs they have.
how do they bring it up, is it a gadget? what is it called?


You mean the task manager? ctrl+shift+esc?


On November 25 2011 20:43 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Hi

I went banshee today vs a Z, and He made hydras. SO many of them.


They were actually pretty nice...they have low hp but their dps is unbeievable..

And I know mass hellions may work, but its not cost effective.

I dont like using tanks. Any other solutions?


Honestly you can't expect a lot of good counters to mass hydra if you refuse to use one of if not the best counter unit for them. It's like not going vikings against colo because you don't like them. It's doable but you're making the game much much much harder for yourself if you're limiting your options because you just "don't like them". Tanks can be tricky to use for newer players but they're there for a reason. If you absolutely don't use them, hellions with good micro and ghosts are your best theory counters, large bio balls with marines are a decent soft counter.

Edit: remove insult
SoulWager
Profile Joined August 2010
United States464 Posts
November 26 2011 06:21 GMT
#9328
On November 26 2011 07:42 enemy2010 wrote:
Is there any possible way to win a small fight against an army, that is slightly bigger than your own?

For example 10 roaches against 14 roaches (both armies same upgrades, no burrow, no speed to retreat faster and save some roaches)? Any way?

I know this questions sounds dumb, but it just came to my mind

it's quite difficult, and you have to rely on opponent being significantly worse at micro/positioning.

Positioning is obvious, you need all your units attacking, and you need as few as his units attacking as possible, but if he's good you won't be able to rely on this, he'll just disengage if he gets into that bad a position.

so it comes down to focus micro.

If you want to win battles where you start at that big a disadvantage, you pretty much have to memorize or calculate on the fly how many hits it takes to kill one of your opponent's units, focus that many, or if you don't have that many, half that many units on it, and focus the rest of your units on a different target, so that you don't have wasted dps. This is half of focus micro, the other half is reading your opponent's attempts at focus micro, picking the unit he's targeting out of the croud(the unit of yours that all of his units are facing), and pulling it back, before the cooldown on his units runs out. If he's not focus firing, just pull back whichever units have low health, and send them back into battle the instant his units switch their target.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
November 26 2011 07:25 GMT
#9329
On November 22 2011 10:51 Insane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2011 10:39 Condor Hero wrote:
how do you make the bottom part (minimap, unit protrait, control panel etc) disappear when watching a game?

Ctrl V, but you can't even cast spells at that point so it's only really useful for observing a specific scene.
e: I might be misremembering the hotkey and it might be Ctrl W :S. Try both of them... Unfortunately I'm not at home so I can't check.

cntrl + w.
awesome
always wondered how they do it when casting.
BeniZxLeGenD
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom7 Posts
November 26 2011 10:15 GMT
#9330
Should I make my first worker before or after I send my initial 6 to mine, and how many workers do I want to transfer to my natural in most cases?
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
November 26 2011 10:26 GMT
#9331
Hey, a T question.

So what do you fo if the Toss rushes for an early Robo push, and once he gets to your ramp, just warps Sentries and FFs the ramp everytime you try to go out, thus killing half of your stuck army? :p

Do you... completely change your game plan and rush to Thors, Banshees or Medivacs?
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Roblin
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden948 Posts
November 26 2011 12:06 GMT
#9332
On November 26 2011 15:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
...

The map is picked first.


I disagree, as far as I know the opponent is picked first and then the map is decided based on vetoes, if someone happens to have a lot of matches in a certain matchup in a certain time-span, its just coincidence.


On November 26 2011 19:15 BeniZxLeGenD wrote:
Should I make my first worker before or after I send my initial 6 to mine, and how many workers do I want to transfer to my natural in most cases?


as your worker production is reliant upon working time at your command center an not reliant upon whether you have 50 or 55 minerals when you start producing your second SCV, optimally you should start with producing a new SCV before sending the initial 6 to mine.
the same is said for protoss, but not for zerg, since drone production is reliant upon minerals, not "working time" at the hatchery, for zerg it actually matters (oh so slightly) whether you have 50 or 55 minerals after 15 seconds.

the transfer depends upon how many workers you have at your main:
lets say X is the amount of workers in your main and Y is the amount to transfer.
if X is 16 or lower, dont transfer at all. (formula: Y = 0)
if X is greater than 16, but lower than 32, transfer enough to have exactly 16 workers in the main. (formula: Y = X - 16)
if X is greater than 32, transfer half of them. (formula: Y = X / 2)
so in general, transfer such that there are a minimum of 16 workers in the main.

(gas-workers are not counted)


On November 26 2011 19:26 Kukaracha wrote:
Hey, a T question.

So what do you fo if the Toss rushes for an early Robo push, and once he gets to your ramp, just warps Sentries and FFs the ramp everytime you try to go out, thus killing half of your stuck army? :p

Do you... completely change your game plan and rush to Thors, Banshees or Medivacs?


well, if this happens then you are instantly behind, and given perfect play the opponent will always win, so your main concern is not "what do I do when this happens" but rather "how do I prevent this from happening"

its a less sever version of: "how do I stop a 6 base zerg on hive tech when I am on 1base?"
the correct answer is you don't, and if you could then your race is overpowered, or the opponent played horribly.

however, your main question was "what do I do when this happens" so lets get back on topic:
there are several things you can do, however, the recurring pattern is that you use a small taskforce to put pressure back on the opponent while defending at home.
as for defending, a few bunkers should do, and you can use either drop tech, banshees, vikings or reapers to circumvent the enemy army at your front, allowing you to go to his base. another valid method would be to elevator 70% of your army to the lowground and sandwhich the enemy army in your natural, which hopefully does not have a easily forcefieldable ramp.

using a thor to break the forcefield is probably not a good idea, that might just trigger him to use another forcefield behind the thor, which the thor cant get to because hes stuck on your own units.

follow the 2 rules of thumb and thats all you can do:
1. get out of your base somehow.
2. put pressure back while defending at home.

as for avoiding this:
having a natural expansion minimizes the risk of this happening by a lot, as you will probably have your army below the ramp, and reinforcements from the top, however, it is still hard to deal with if he drops sentries, forcefields your ramp and starts warping in zealots, the sentries themselves cant deal with your reinforcements, but the zealots can, and so you will have to micro heavily.
stationing a few marines on the top of the ramp will deal with this too.
and in general, map-awareness, especially if you see his robo should you prepare for this eventuality by parking a few units on the highground.

do note that having tanks completely nullify this tactic since his sentries will melt in seconds, so I have assumed you don't use tanks in TvP
I'm better today than I was yesterday!
BeniZxLeGenD
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom7 Posts
November 26 2011 12:19 GMT
#9333
the transfer depends upon how many workers you have at your main:
lets say X is the amount of workers in your main and Y is the amount to transfer.
if X is 16 or lower, dont transfer at all. (formula: Y = 0)
if X is greater than 16, but lower than 32, transfer enough to have exactly 16 workers in the main. (formula: Y = X - 16)
if X is greater than 32, transfer half of them. (formula: Y = X / 2)
so in general, transfer such that there are a minimum of 16 workers in the main.

(gas-workers are not counted)


Ok, but how do i know how many to transfer to ensure I have 16 workers left, or how do I know what half is? Do I just drag a box around them and guess?
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
November 26 2011 13:00 GMT
#9334
On November 26 2011 21:19 BeniZxLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
the transfer depends upon how many workers you have at your main:
lets say X is the amount of workers in your main and Y is the amount to transfer.
if X is 16 or lower, dont transfer at all. (formula: Y = 0)
if X is greater than 16, but lower than 32, transfer enough to have exactly 16 workers in the main. (formula: Y = X - 16)
if X is greater than 32, transfer half of them. (formula: Y = X / 2)
so in general, transfer such that there are a minimum of 16 workers in the main.

(gas-workers are not counted)


Ok, but how do i know how many to transfer to ensure I have 16 workers left, or how do I know what half is? Do I just drag a box around them and guess?

yes.
Iyerbeth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
England2410 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 13:48:02
November 26 2011 13:47 GMT
#9335
On November 26 2011 15:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2011 13:04 PenguinWithNuke wrote:
Did the "Milkyway drone drill" get patched out? I need a confirmation.


nope it's still in


Can you confirm this? I got told it was removed and then to prove it was still in I attempted to do it myself on Shakuras and Shattered repeatedly at different spawns and couldn't get it to work at all. I had done it in the past too so I don't believe I was doing it wrong. In the end I had to concede it was removed.
♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ Liquid`TLO ♥
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
November 26 2011 18:20 GMT
#9336
So question.

Why do people put Medivacs in the same control group as their units? When they move their units, the Medivacs just fly around and doesn't heal the units until they stop and attack. Wouldn't the Medivacs be constantly healing as they move if they were on follow or something, and weren't being manually moved all the time?
envisioN .
Profile Joined February 2011
United States552 Posts
November 26 2011 18:24 GMT
#9337
On November 27 2011 03:20 Fruscainte wrote:
So question.

Why do people put Medivacs in the same control group as their units? When they move their units, the Medivacs just fly around and doesn't heal the units until they stop and attack. Wouldn't the Medivacs be constantly healing as they move if they were on follow or something, and weren't being manually moved all the time?

If you don't have your Medivacs in the same control group as your bio, they don't move back with your army when you stutter step away from zealots/zerglings and tend to get killed very easily by your opponent's ranged units in the back.
"Good works do not make a good man, but a good man does good works" -Martin Luther ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
November 26 2011 18:31 GMT
#9338
On November 27 2011 03:24 envisioN . wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2011 03:20 Fruscainte wrote:
So question.

Why do people put Medivacs in the same control group as their units? When they move their units, the Medivacs just fly around and doesn't heal the units until they stop and attack. Wouldn't the Medivacs be constantly healing as they move if they were on follow or something, and weren't being manually moved all the time?

If you don't have your Medivacs in the same control group as your bio, they don't move back with your army when you stutter step away from zealots/zerglings and tend to get killed very easily by your opponent's ranged units in the back.


Ah, that makes sense. Thank you.
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
November 26 2011 19:23 GMT
#9339
On November 26 2011 15:20 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2011 22:51 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
On November 25 2011 21:12 Ganseng wrote:
On November 25 2011 20:43 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Hi

I went banshee today vs a Z, and He made hydras. SO many of them.


They were actually pretty nice...they have low hp but their dps is unbeievable..

And I know mass hellions may work, but its not cost effective.

I dont like using tanks. Any other solutions?

Im concerned with hydras...they are strong, but weak in HP.


thors.
ghosts with snipe as well if you have quick hands.

Thanks

Any more ? I used thors, but they get damaged pretty fast too.

And is it really true thors 1 shot hydras? 3 upgraded thors right?


No, that is horrible advice from Ganseng. That'll only work in small numbers, where 1 Thor can attack 3 hydras at the same time. However, in mass numbers, the hydralisks will win because multiple layers of hydralisks can attack 1 thor layer at a time since thors are so much bigger.

Sorry you'll have to use tanks.

Mass marine/medivac works as well, it is a soft counter.

Also, hellions are cost efficient, if we're talking about pure hellion vs pure hydra. But obviously you will need more supply.

pls don't misinform people. hydras and thors trade at a ratio of ~ 15 to 1
coriamon
Profile Joined August 2011
244 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-26 23:37:24
November 26 2011 22:46 GMT
#9340
On November 27 2011 04:23 Ganseng wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2011 15:20 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On November 25 2011 22:51 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
On November 25 2011 21:12 Ganseng wrote:
On November 25 2011 20:43 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:
Hi

I went banshee today vs a Z, and He made hydras. SO many of them.


They were actually pretty nice...they have low hp but their dps is unbeievable..

And I know mass hellions may work, but its not cost effective.

I dont like using tanks. Any other solutions?

Im concerned with hydras...they are strong, but weak in HP.


thors.
ghosts with snipe as well if you have quick hands.

Thanks

Any more ? I used thors, but they get damaged pretty fast too.

And is it really true thors 1 shot hydras? 3 upgraded thors right?


No, that is horrible advice from Ganseng. That'll only work in small numbers, where 1 Thor can attack 3 hydras at the same time. However, in mass numbers, the hydralisks will win because multiple layers of hydralisks can attack 1 thor layer at a time since thors are so much bigger.

Sorry you'll have to use tanks.

Mass marine/medivac works as well, it is a soft counter.

Also, hellions are cost efficient, if we're talking about pure hellion vs pure hydra. But obviously you will need more supply.

pls don't misinform people. hydras and thors trade at a ratio of ~ 15 to 1



Just tested; untrue. 5-6 hydras can kill a thor. The better counter is tanks, hellions, and marine/maurauder medivac.
EDIT: not so viable, but bcs and banshees work well.
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