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Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
November 23 2011 06:30 GMT
#9261
how does corruption handle the armor points? Are they deducted first and then the bonus damage is added or vice versa?
e.g., if a corruptor attacks a battlecruiser, how much damage does it inflict:
20*1.2-3 or
(20-3)*1.2?
Czarnodziej
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 13:31:02
November 23 2011 13:27 GMT
#9262
Im starting to discover each races and have 1 question: what is the most efficient build order to optimize mechanics of each race, regardless of matchup?(meaning like mid silver level)
I've been using 3 gate robo for Protoss from liquipedia, as it is highly flexible.
What about terran and zerg?
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 13:42:19
November 23 2011 13:40 GMT
#9263
On November 23 2011 22:27 Czarnodziej wrote:
Im starting to discover each races and have 1 question: what is the most efficient build order to optimize mechanics of each race, regardless of matchup?
I've been using 3 gate robo for Protoss from liquipedia, as it is highly flexible.
What about terran and zerg?

for tvt, i'd recommend to go:
10 supply
12 rax, constantly produce marines
13 gas
16 orbital, then constantly produce scvs
17 2nd supply
factory @ 100 gas
cc @ 400 minerals
techlab at factory => first tank and siege mode
if you smell banshees, build an e-bay and a turret near your mineral line
2nd gas
starport as soon as you have enough gas => viking
you're safe against most all-ins and can transition into macro game.
for tvz:
10 supply
12 rax, constantly produce marines
13 gas
16 orbital, then constantly produce scvs
17 2nd supply
factory @ 100 gas
reactor on barracks near the factory, switch them as soon as it finishes, start double-producing hellions
cc @ 400 minerals
2nd factory
2nd gas
tech lab on 2nd factory, start siege mode and siege tanks if he goes roaches or start blue flame and triple-produce hellions if there are no roaches in sight
again, it's cheese-proof and has good transitions.
with tvp i'm really clueless right now, can't give a good advice.
lurchpanda
Profile Joined May 2011
United States51 Posts
November 23 2011 14:26 GMT
#9264
On November 22 2011 06:26 tuukster wrote:
As an overall strategy in PvT, am I supposed to stay 1 base ahead of terrans, as in BW? Can a 2base protoss handle a 2base terran (mech or bio)?



If he is going bio then try and stay even with him. If he is going mech then try and stay a base ahead or so.

Side note: I love to starve out terrans who get 5 million siege tanks and never try and move out.
You always hear "The glass is half empty" or "The glass is half full". I say we stop choosing what the glass is, and let the glass decide what it wants to be
Iyerbeth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
England2410 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 14:28:51
November 23 2011 14:27 GMT
#9265
On November 23 2011 22:27 Czarnodziej wrote:
Im starting to discover each races and have 1 question: what is the most efficient build order to optimize mechanics of each race, regardless of matchup?(meaning like mid silver level)
I've been using 3 gate robo for Protoss from liquipedia, as it is highly flexible.
What about terran and zerg?


For Zerg the most standard/safe/flexible build you can do is a 14/14 speedling expand. It's not the best build for every map/match up/possible opponent, but it should at elast mean you don't die to 99% of stuff and can still get a relatively quick FE. A basic build order would be something like:

9 Overlord
14 Gas*
14 Pool*
100% Pool make 1 Queen and 4 scouting lings
100 Gas pull Drones off Gas until you need more in your build**
Metabolic Boost Upgrade
300 Minerals Expand

* Swap these around to be more safe in ZvZ.
** Leave 1 on in ZvZ, and scout as early as possible for a Baneling nest. As per help I received in this thread, I've found keeping that one on gas can let you immediately respond to an enemy Baneling Nest with your own and start getting gas again for Bane's at that point, instead of first saving for the Nest.

You'll want to get a 2nd Queen while you expand is building,and use it to drop a Creep Tumour and then walk over to be ready at the new base. I think if I go any further I would be straying from the question, so I'll stop there. Hope it helps.
♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ Liquid`TLO ♥
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
November 23 2011 15:58 GMT
#9266
When you have units queued in a terran building, and it gets destroyed, do you lose the resources?

Ahh, I wanted to answer some questions as well, but so many aren't Terran related. Too many Protoss asking for help
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Soluhwin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1287 Posts
November 23 2011 16:34 GMT
#9267
Iyerbeth, may I ask why you recommend going pool before gas in ZvZ? A late speed can mean no possibility for early aggression against hatch first.
I put the sexy in dyslexia.
Hero1
Profile Joined December 2010
135 Posts
November 23 2011 19:25 GMT
#9268
Three terran micro questions:

1) Usually if you want to build a new building you'd just make a frame around some mining SCVs, place your building and shift click back on the minerals. Is there any way to abort the building process if you misplaced your building without letting all your SCVs run to some random location (because you have to override the build with a move command) or without searching the one finally being chosen to build and override his command with a new one?

2) How to snipe with ghosts properly? I've tried the snipe-click, snipe-click, snipe-click methods which lets you deselect all ghosts if you missclick somewhere. Same for just holding down snipe and spamming around. Do you just press snipe and shift queue? What if you missclick there?

3) How to engage a protoss deathball with storm HTs. I just can't make it. Even if I throw down the best EMPs ever, he'll always have 2-4 storms left which still kills way too much. Maybe I try to EMP too economically so I have some EMPs left for other parts of his army. Should I really spam EMPs over his HTs like crazy or how do you go about this?
Another problem is that he usually gets some storms off before my ghosts are in EMP range and if I have them too far in front of my main army he can snipe them. Cloak sometimes does the trick but he should usually have an observer or only fall for cloak once.
Dakure
Profile Joined February 2011
United States513 Posts
November 23 2011 19:40 GMT
#9269
What's better for Muta vs Muta, +1 Carapace or +1 attack?
viOLetFanClub
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Korea (South)390 Posts
November 23 2011 19:42 GMT
#9270
On November 24 2011 04:40 Dakure wrote:
What's better for Muta vs Muta, +1 Carapace or +1 attack?

I would say Attack upgrade since the Mutalisk's attack hits 3 different times.
RaKooNs
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom397 Posts
November 23 2011 19:43 GMT
#9271
On November 24 2011 04:40 Dakure wrote:
What's better for Muta vs Muta, +1 Carapace or +1 attack?

Well, leenock got carapace in MLG so i presume carapace, i think it depends on whether you're being defensive with muta's or offensive.
If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow - SlayerS_MMA
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
November 23 2011 20:19 GMT
#9272
so simple question: why most zergs in ZvP never patrol a drone down the ramp when playing vs. FFE toss. I mean if you go 15 pool and he 3 pylon blocks you, you are dead..
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 22:48:00
November 23 2011 22:43 GMT
#9273
On November 23 2011 22:27 Czarnodziej wrote:
Im starting to discover each races and have 1 question: what is the most efficient build order to optimize mechanics of each race, regardless of matchup?(meaning like mid silver level)
I've been using 3 gate robo for Protoss from liquipedia, as it is highly flexible.
What about terran and zerg?

If you're just trying to work on mechanics, then probably the following builds are going to lead to the best games for working on mechanics:

Terran: 1 rax FE (you can get a Marauder in TvP and a Reaper in TvT / TvZ if you prefer, but actually if you wall off you can go 1 rax gasless CC). [do scout to make sure he's not pumping 3 rax marine and going to allin you, as you'll need to respond appropriately though]


For Protoss you might consider this thread also, as it contains some good builds other than just 3 gate robo which are good builds for working on mechanics with: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786

14/14 is fine as the guy above described.


On November 24 2011 05:19 Alpina wrote:
so simple question: why most zergs in ZvP never patrol a drone down the ramp when playing vs. FFE toss. I mean if you go 15 pool and he 3 pylon blocks you, you are dead..

I've seen plenty of Zerg do that actually. It's probably a combination of the fact that there used to be a reliable way of breaking that (drone stack + attack), and a lack of knowledge. If you keep an overlord appropriately placed on some maps you can just run as he approaches that area.

On November 24 2011 04:42 k1mjee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2011 04:40 Dakure wrote:
What's better for Muta vs Muta, +1 Carapace or +1 attack?

I would say Attack upgrade since the Mutalisk's attack hits 3 different times.

No, carapace is much better. It affects all three bounces, whereas getting +1 weapons doesn't affect all 3 bounces. Regardless of whether you're being "offensive or defensive", carapace is significantly better in Muta vs Muta battles.

On November 24 2011 04:25 Hero1 wrote:
Three terran micro questions:

1) Usually if you want to build a new building you'd just make a frame around some mining SCVs, place your building and shift click back on the minerals. Is there any way to abort the building process if you misplaced your building without letting all your SCVs run to some random location (because you have to override the build with a move command) or without searching the one finally being chosen to build and override his command with a new one?

2) How to snipe with ghosts properly? I've tried the snipe-click, snipe-click, snipe-click methods which lets you deselect all ghosts if you missclick somewhere. Same for just holding down snipe and spamming around. Do you just press snipe and shift queue? What if you missclick there?

3) How to engage a protoss deathball with storm HTs. I just can't make it. Even if I throw down the best EMPs ever, he'll always have 2-4 storms left which still kills way too much. Maybe I try to EMP too economically so I have some EMPs left for other parts of his army. Should I really spam EMPs over his HTs like crazy or how do you go about this?
Another problem is that he usually gets some storms off before my ghosts are in EMP range and if I have them too far in front of my main army he can snipe them. Cloak sometimes does the trick but he should usually have an observer or only fall for cloak once.

1) I'm not aware of a way. If someone does know, I'd appreciate it too . I don't find it takes very long to find the right SCV though.
2) hold down shift and press r and then click a bunch of different things should work I believe. Misclick what? If you misclick the wrong unit it'll still snipe it, but this usually isn't a big disaster (it's not like you'd be sniping your OWN unit by accident).
3) It's good to save a bit of EMP because as you mentioned some Protoss are smart enough not to let all their HTs get EMPed at the start of the battle. I'm assuming you're using bio, so basically the answer is to have EMPs as much as possible, and split your army well + be in a good arc. Don't skimp on Marauders also - although Marines are better DPS, for lower level players Marauders are better for that situation (not pure Marauder, but a healthy amount) because they require less precise control to avoid dying instantly.
Basically EMP you want to exhaust his shields + energy, so cast as much EMP as is necessary to do that, but not more (sorry for the vague comment, but it's really not just a simple "cast 3 EMPS on his army and done")
coriamon
Profile Joined August 2011
244 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-24 01:18:50
November 23 2011 23:10 GMT
#9274
On November 24 2011 04:40 Dakure wrote:
What's better for Muta vs Muta, +1 Carapace or +1 attack?

Edit: Soz
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-23 23:50:39
November 23 2011 23:50 GMT
#9275
On November 24 2011 08:10 coriamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2011 04:40 Dakure wrote:
What's better for Muta vs Muta, +1 Carapace or +1 attack?

Attack
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=263395

Did you read the thread? It consists of many people telling him he's wrong and why.
vorxaw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada245 Posts
November 24 2011 02:38 GMT
#9276
On November 23 2011 12:42 nytz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 11:26 vorxaw wrote:
When watching a replay, is it possible to click on their hotkey icons to see what units they have on each hotkey?


Yes, if you click on the hotkey you can see what units they have on it - but if you press it you cant.


Are you sure, I just tried it and it didn't work. Hopefully I'm wrong. You mean by using my mouse to click on the hotkeyicon right? Doesnt seem to work
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-24 05:45:35
November 24 2011 05:43 GMT
#9277
Hi I've been noticing a lot of high level players spreading out the gas geysers they take. For example, if they're on two base and only want two gas for the time being, they'll take one geyser in their main and one in their natural. Is there any real benefit of doing this? I'm guessing its just to make it less clear what's going on in case the other guy only manages to scout either the main or the nat but I dont know.

Thanks so much. : )

Edit: I guess I'll answer the guy above me while I'm at it. ^_^


On November 24 2011 11:38 vorxaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 23 2011 12:42 nytz wrote:
On November 23 2011 11:26 vorxaw wrote:
When watching a replay, is it possible to click on their hotkey icons to see what units they have on each hotkey?


Yes, if you click on the hotkey you can see what units they have on it - but if you press it you cant.


Are you sure, I just tried it and it didn't work. Hopefully I'm wrong. You mean by using my mouse to click on the hotkeyicon right? Doesnt seem to work


Go to the options menu -> gameplay tab and make sure where it says "Control Groups" under "User Interface" is set to Normal. That's assuming you're on english client but I'm sure you'll figure it out if not. : )
vorxaw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada245 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-24 06:58:16
November 24 2011 06:39 GMT
#9278
Thanks Bibbit, I had it on unclickable for some reason, now I feel dumb lol

EDIT- just read your commentary on the SCBW guides from a decade ago, hilarious! good writing
Non0
Profile Joined April 2010
United States100 Posts
November 24 2011 06:45 GMT
#9279
On November 24 2011 04:25 Hero1 wrote:
1) Usually if you want to build a new building you'd just make a frame around some mining SCVs, place your building and shift click back on the minerals. Is there any way to abort the building process if you misplaced your building without letting all your SCVs run to some random location (because you have to override the build with a move command) or without searching the one finally being chosen to build and override his command with a new one?
.


I only really have an answer for this and its a really disappointing one: The easiest way to solve this situation is to click on an scv rather than selecting multiple scvs - you don't save time by selecting multiples to make a single building, you're just increasing your chance to make mistakes.
Ganseng
Profile Joined July 2011
Russian Federation473 Posts
November 24 2011 07:09 GMT
#9280
On November 23 2011 15:30 Ganseng wrote:
how does corruption handle the armor points? Are they deducted first and then the bonus damage is added or vice versa?
e.g., if a corruptor attacks a battlecruiser, how much damage does it inflict:
20*1.2-3 or
(20-3)*1.2?

can somebody answer this question ?
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