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On November 21 2011 16:27 Shadowo wrote:
As a terran, when i want to drop in someones base, what are the priorities of attack for each race (pylons, drones, specific tech structures) and what units should i drop with (marines for zerg, marauders against protoss for tech?)
That really comes down a lot to personal preference. If possible, sniping a newly made base (Nexus/Hatch/CC) is probably in most cases the best choice, I'd say that dropping behind a mineralline, killing workers until the opponent moves them away and then focus down the base is one of the most deadly drops there can be. However, killing crucial tech structures can also be very effective if done with a underlying thoughtprocess, for example, if your Protossopponent decides to go Colossi, killing the Robo bay before his range is done is really deadly, killing a lone techlab before stim finishes is deadly to a bioplaying Terran.
I'd say that workers/mainbase is always a safe way to go, if tech buildings are killed, you need to be able to analyze in what way that kill will cripple the opponent and how you can punish him because of this. Crippling his economy is therefore the safest way to go! 
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On November 21 2011 19:33 Tryxtira wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 16:27 Shadowo wrote:
As a terran, when i want to drop in someones base, what are the priorities of attack for each race (pylons, drones, specific tech structures) and what units should i drop with (marines for zerg, marauders against protoss for tech?) That really comes down a lot to personal preference. If possible, sniping a newly made base (Nexus/Hatch/CC) is probably in most cases the best choice, I'd say that dropping behind a mineralline, killing workers until the opponent moves them away and then focus down the base is one of the most deadly drops there can be. However, killing crucial tech structures can also be very effective if done with a underlying thoughtprocess, for example, if your Protossopponent decides to go Colossi, killing the Robo bay before his range is done is really deadly, killing a lone techlab before stim finishes is deadly to a bioplaying Terran. I'd say that workers/mainbase is always a safe way to go, if tech buildings are killed, you need to be able to analyze in what way that kill will cripple the opponent and how you can punish him because of this. Crippling his economy is therefore the safest way to go!
Just to add to this, specifically when against Zerg, killing Queens is hugely important if you only have a short time. If you can't take out the Hatch taking out the fairly easy to kill Queen still halves that bases production, and prevents pooling more than 3 larva for a timing or remax.
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I have 2 questions: (I'm mid platinum league)
1) How do I hold off a Terran 1 base Marine/Tank timing push as Terran who fast expands (1Rax into CC + 2 additional Rax + Medivacs (eventually)) without Tanks? The sieged Tanks just kill my bio army and I can't seem to hold these pushes.
2) I play fast 16 Marine drop with Stim, Combat Shield and +1/+1 against Zerg (@ about 10 min mark). What is the best transition into the mid and late game if I don't want to produce Tanks?
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On November 21 2011 23:52 aklambda wrote:
I have 2 questions: (I'm mid platinum league)
1) How do I hold off a Terran 1 base Marine/Tank timing push as Terran who fast expands (1Rax into CC + 2 additional Rax + Medivacs (eventually)) without Tanks? The sieged Tanks just kill my bio army and I can't seem to hold these pushes.
2) I play fast 16 Marine drop with Stim, Combat Shield and +1/+1 against Zerg (@ about 10 min mark). What is the best transition into the mid and late game if I don't want to produce Tanks?
You really need control of the watchtowers and use that advantage to catch the army as its on its way to your base. When you see the push coming, send your forces out to meet him in the middle of the map so that you can push in on him before the tanks are sieged. This is the reason that Artosis points out that if you make siege tanks early, it is essential to be defensive with them rather than aggressive. Of course, he is speaking about high level play where an opponent will not simply let you get to his base with a bunch of siege tanks if he does not have any.
The most important thing in terms of your build is that you must get stim early enough. Versus 2 or 3 siege tanks, the comparative amount of bio you can have at that time with stim is enough that if he sieges up outside of your base, you can stim and rush his tanks, killing them all (focus fire the tanks). However, this won't work if he has very good positioning and is allowed to get his tanks in range of your ramp with vision of the high ground (through viking or scan). In this case, if your forces are in the main, you will be in trouble. Thus, the real solution is to catch him on the way so as to avoid this pitfall.
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On November 21 2011 18:01 Isaac wrote:
Is there a general rule of thumb that players follow when deciding to take a second gas?
Mvp did a build that was a reactor,tech lab 2 barracks timing, but he followed up with a factory then a reactor starport while getting stim on 1 base. It was played on the beta stream, but I don't see the vod.
I dont know the timing that i get my second gas. he had enough perfectly timed out to have 200gas for the medivacs as the starport finished, but i cant create that own timing in my plays.
help if possible?
Well, this will sound obvious, but the idea is to get it as late as possible, whilst still getting all the gas you need for your build.
Some knowledge of ingame timings is very helpful for planing your gas: a refinery takes 30s to build, a fully saturated geyser produces around 114 gas a minute if fully saturated, each SCV mines around 38 gas/minute, and each structure/add-on has a build time you can use as well. From here, creating perfect build orders like MVP's are just tweaking and doing math, figuring out when the gas needs to be built for everything to go as smoothly as possible.
As for rules of thumb, try to divide your builds into high gas, medium, and no or low gas, and then figure out what exactly that means in terms of timings for each. For example, banshee play is very gas intensive; usually your second gas needs to come before 20 supply if you want the gas needed to get out a banshee/cloak as quickly as possible. If you're unsure, build the refinery, and cut workers on it down if you're floating some gas.
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I have a question about terrans and viability without siege tanks.
I'm not a very active player but ive always been terran but im getting tired of using siege tanks so I was wondering if any of you have tips on builds or ways to play terran without using siege tanks, especially against other terrans that DO use siege tanks.
Thanks a lot for any reply and if im beeing unspecific let me know
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As an overall strategy in PvT, am I supposed to stay 1 base ahead of terrans, as in BW? Can a 2base protoss handle a 2base terran (mech or bio)?
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United States4991 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:52 aklambda wrote:
I have 2 questions: (I'm mid platinum league)
1) How do I hold off a Terran 1 base Marine/Tank timing push as Terran who fast expands (1Rax into CC + 2 additional Rax + Medivacs (eventually)) without Tanks? The sieged Tanks just kill my bio army and I can't seem to hold these pushes.
2) I play fast 16 Marine drop with Stim, Combat Shield and +1/+1 against Zerg (@ about 10 min mark). What is the best transition into the mid and late game if I don't want to produce Tanks?
1) Pull all (well, I typically use all) the SCVs at your natural and hit him with all your marines + all those SCVs as he's nearly to the spot where he's going to siege. You want to hit him before he's actually sieged up and in position, but you want to be as close to your base so you have as much as you possibly can before engaging. Stutter-step forward and split marines if he's about to start shooting you with sieged shots. I have a good success rate with that build against the Marine/Tank push as long as you pull enough SCVs and don't let all your marines die to two tank shots or something.
2) You should consider why you want to avoid producing Tanks. I know some people who like to make a bunch of Ravens and go Marine/Raven primarily, but I think ultimately refusing to use Tanks is just going to gimp you - they're very good against nearly all ground units, and you need to have very good splits and attention to avoid dying to banelings. Especially at a mid-platinum level, I think you're going to be struggling to do everything and also micro your marines well enough to avoid dying to a big ling/baneling attack.
On November 22 2011 06:00 Domari wrote:I have a question about terrans and viability without siege tanks. I'm not a very active player but ive always been terran but im getting tired of using siege tanks so I was wondering if any of you have tips on builds or ways to play terran without using siege tanks, especially against other terrans that DO use siege tanks. Thanks a lot for any reply and if im beeing unspecific let me know
It's definitely doable, but it's going to give you something of a disadvantage (Tanks are just really good). Ultimately you can use Marine/Marauder as your force, but you need to stay very active (in essence, playing well without tanks against someone who does have tanks means you need to be pretty active/high actions).
If you hit him when he's unsieged, you can win fights, so your objectives are primarily: drop a lot (abuse immobility of your opponent) and force him to unsiege before engaging. Don't be afraid to split your forces and engage smaller groups of his army, but be very sure you can win against his army before you engage the big army - mass tanks kill things verrrryyy fast.
Also practice your splitting for fights. If you have very good splitting, you'll be amazed how large of an army you actually can kill with infantry.
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United States4991 Posts
Bleh, meant to edit this into previous post.
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Thanks Insane
My problem is that I have very bad multi tasking so I feel that when im using tanks I become very imobile and I have trouble concentrating on when to siege my tanks and at the same time macroing, I feel VERY imobile with tanks. Gonna try some drop plays and see how it goes.
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I'm not very good (gold-platinum) but: how can i deal with alot of chargelots in TvP without having to do awesome kiting micro ?
I always lose lategame TvP to alot of zealtos backed up with archons and or colossus. There just doesnt seem to be a unit to deal effectifly with them in a heads up fight. i try to emp them before they spread out, and try to focus my ghosts on them, but they still have just too much health to kill them quickly.
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Why is there a metal horse as the TL logo in the banner?
(couldn't find a simple Q/A thread in SC2 general or TL community)
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On November 22 2011 10:03 Zinroc wrote:
Why is there a metal horse as the TL logo in the banner?
(couldn't find a simple Q/A thread in SC2 general or TL community)
On November 15 2011 16:15 ixi.genocide wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 02:13 Mozdk wrote:
I'll repost cuz no one replied:
Not strat but I don't know where else to ask.
Why is team liquid called liquid?
And why the horse logo?
Anyone know? The Horse logo is an adage to the Lotr scene where gandalf summons water horses, They actually started using it as a banner before that but eventually nazgul liked it that way. They now have the rights to that image (which is actually reversed of the real painting). Not sure where Teamliquid came from though.
Have some courtesy to the other posters and look back a little bit before posting a question.
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I think of Chrono Boost the same way I think of larva in the sense that it's best to use ASAP, though there are times when you might want to save it so it goes to the right place (units/workers). Is this correct?
In general, should I use chrono boost ASAP and think it's bad if my Nexus has more than 25 energy?
+ Show Spoiler +Does this deserve its own thread because it's too situational/game dependent?
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On November 22 2011 10:13 coriamon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 10:03 Zinroc wrote:
Why is there a metal horse as the TL logo in the banner?
(couldn't find a simple Q/A thread in SC2 general or TL community) Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:15 ixi.genocide wrote:On November 14 2011 02:13 Mozdk wrote:
I'll repost cuz no one replied:
Not strat but I don't know where else to ask.
Why is team liquid called liquid?
And why the horse logo?
Anyone know? The Horse logo is an adage to the Lotr scene where gandalf summons water horses, They actually started using it as a banner before that but eventually nazgul liked it that way. They now have the rights to that image (which is actually reversed of the real painting). Not sure where Teamliquid came from though. Have some courtesy to the other posters and look back a little bit before posting a question.
My question was why it was a METAL horse, I wasn't asking why it was a horse...
Anyways the guy before you gave the answer so thanks
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 10:18 Dakure wrote:I think of Chrono Boost the same way I think of larva in the sense that it's best to use ASAP, though there are times when you might want to save it so it goes to the right place (units/workers). Is this correct? In general, should I use chrono boost ASAP and think it's bad if my Nexus has more than 25 energy? + Show Spoiler +Does this deserve its own thread because it's too situational/game dependent?
Mostly it's good to be using it as much as you can. The main exception is early game, when you might be saving it for something like warpgate.
Beyond that though, keeping it low is a good thing to do. That said, it's nowhere near as significant a difference as not injecting with queens or using MULEs. There are plenty of good players who don't spend all their chronoboost.
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how do you make the bottom part (minimap, unit protrait, control panel etc) disappear when watching a game?
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United States4991 Posts
On November 22 2011 10:39 Condor Hero wrote:
how do you make the bottom part (minimap, unit protrait, control panel etc) disappear when watching a game?
Ctrl V, but you can't even cast spells at that point so it's only really useful for observing a specific scene.
e: I might be misremembering the hotkey and it might be Ctrl W :S. Try both of them... Unfortunately I'm not at home so I can't check.
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On November 22 2011 08:06 yallayalla wrote:
I'm not very good (gold-platinum) but: how can i deal with alot of chargelots in TvP without having to do awesome kiting micro ?
I always lose lategame TvP to alot of zealtos backed up with archons and or colossus. There just doesnt seem to be a unit to deal effectifly with them in a heads up fight. i try to emp them before they spread out, and try to focus my ghosts on them, but they still have just too much health to kill them quickly.
- dont go emp when there are colossi and chargelots. colossi and chargelots are a good response from Toss to emp
- get more other stuff for this money
- marines are good against zealots
- but marines are bad against colossi so you need vikings and
- tons of marauders. plus an absolutely "must have" concussive shells, and stim, and combat shield.
- you need medvacs
- colossi are only good, if a big meat shield protects them. lost colossi hurt a toss more than you might think.
imo, archons are not that good against mmm. if equal army supply on both sides. but there are different opinions about that.
you must kite. put you army in a controll group, spam run away with right mouse button, and press "stop" to shoot. it takes 1 hr practice.
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EPT
