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QUESTION: Is there a good banshee opening (doesn't have to be asap, I'm thinking any opening with 1 or 2 rax, 1 fact, 1 or 2 port, with lots of marines thrown in) that can survive a four gate in TvP and do well in TvT?
I was trying to think of what build I would like to use in my TvT's, and I want to be able to harass, but I also want to be able to defend harass pretty well. One thing I could do is get, for example if I was worried about cloaked banshee harass, would be to get a fast viking + raven out of 1/1/2, but I'd have to scout well to know whether banshees were really coming out (I'm banking on the fact that my scouting will be good enough to see if he's going early tech, early expo, or bunch of rax, but not good enough to see exactly what would come out of it). So I was thinking: stimmed marines are really good at killing banshees. Maybe if I got a bunch of early marines and spread them around my base, and built my buildings very compactly, and closed off my mineral line with supply depots, I could not only defend against banshees but also against drops, e.g. hellion drop if I can kill the medivac before it gets to my mineral line. Then I might also get an engineering bay for turret + weapons upgrade, but I don't know if I could fit all that in there, so maybe saving on to energy for a scan would be better, and then waiting on raven AFTER my own banshees pop.
Then I was thinking I could also use whatever build comes out of this in TvP because the extra marines would make holding off four gate easier, and I could still harass (for a while I was doing blue flame hellion drop build, but I was kind of just dying too often, and also good stalker placement would deny the harass completely, where as banshees might be better because they can shoot without having to get close enough to drop, and they force P to get detection)
EDIT: I do plan on playing around trying to figure out a build that will make me content, but it's hard, and also I don't have anybody I can just call up any time and say "Hey wanna four gate me? I gotta try a build" (school still on means most friends still studying hard!)
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Can a warp prism load an archon that is still morphing?
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On May 11 2011 09:21 alwayriki wrote:
Can a warp prism load an archon that is still morphing?
Sorry if this is wrong, but I do not think so.
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On May 11 2011 09:19 TheRealPaciFist wrote:
QUESTION: Is there a good banshee opening (doesn't have to be asap, I'm thinking any opening with 1 or 2 rax, 1 fact, 1 or 2 port, with lots of marines thrown in) that can survive a four gate in TvP and do well in TvT?
I was trying to think of what build I would like to use in my TvT's, and I want to be able to harass, but I also want to be able to defend harass pretty well. One thing I could do is get, for example if I was worried about cloaked banshee harass, would be to get a fast viking + raven out of 1/1/2, but I'd have to scout well to know whether banshees were really coming out (I'm banking on the fact that my scouting will be good enough to see if he's going early tech, early expo, or bunch of rax, but not good enough to see exactly what would come out of it). So I was thinking: stimmed marines are really good at killing banshees. Maybe if I got a bunch of early marines and spread them around my base, and built my buildings very compactly, and closed off my mineral line with supply depots, I could not only defend against banshees but also against drops, e.g. hellion drop if I can kill the medivac before it gets to my mineral line. Then I might also get an engineering bay for turret + weapons upgrade, but I don't know if I could fit all that in there, so maybe saving on to energy for a scan would be better, and then waiting on raven AFTER my own banshees pop.
Then I was thinking I could also use whatever build comes out of this in TvP because the extra marines would make holding off four gate easier, and I could still harass (for a while I was doing blue flame hellion drop build, but I was kind of just dying too often, and also good stalker placement would deny the harass completely, where as banshees might be better because they can shoot without having to get close enough to drop, and they force P to get detection)
For TvP, just go 2port banshee with 2 bunkers at the ramp. Bunkers should allow you to hold off a 4gate fairly easily.
TvT means that you'll need some kind of anti-marine unit out (siege/hellion), so production out of at least 1 fact is necessary while going banshees.
Also, keeping units in your base is bad even if it is to deter harass. This is a main role of banshees, to take the entire map while keeping you on 1/2bases.
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On May 11 2011 07:29 MaK UK wrote:
Is it more cost efficiant to go stalker heavy or zealot heavy vs a terran ball which is marauder heavy? (ignore collosi numbers i just want to know what gateway units)
also should you ever get zealots vs a roach hydra army or just focus on going sentry stalker collosi?
You want a lot of zealots. the only way your colossus and stalkers stay alive is because nothing is attacking them. Watch your engagements; the second the zealot wall is depleted, everything you have dies immediately xD
Always keep up GS and make sure to at least have enough stalkers to cover your colossus from vikings (or banshees if the T goes that route)
Zealots are pretty terrible against zerg in straight engagements once the zerg has roaches out. Stalker/sentry/col/immortal and work on forcefield efficiency.
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On May 11 2011 07:50 H2OSno wrote:
Can banelings cost effectively kill roaches in high numbers, similar to the way they kill hydralisks?
1 baneling = 1 roach, cost-wise (75 minerals, 25 gas).
A baneling will deal 19 damage to a roach (accounting for the roach's 1 armor) which has 145 health. Thus, to be cost-effective in terms pure damage done, the baneling needs to hit 8 roaches to deal 19 * 8 = 152 damage total.
This is theoretically possible, but it is practically impossible to get this kind of surface area without burrow or drop, and even then, it will take a bit of luck for the roaches to be clumped up enough to deal that kind of damage. Furthermore, it is clear that banelings are extremely larva inefficient versus roaches in all but the most ideal of scenarios.
(For reference, 8 burrowed banelings sitting underneath a sufficiently large pack of roaches will take 10 of them out instantly and deal appropriate radial damage to the rest.)
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On May 10 2011 11:25 bankai wrote:
1) In PvZ macro-oriented games, I noticed that typically high level players go for the IST or ISS compositions but as the game builds up and zerg techs to ultras/broodlords, that Protoss players do not replenish sentry count.
This could be my mis-observation but, why do ppl do that?? I thought for zerg, since their numbers are so great in late game, that you NEED forcefields to restrict their movement otherwise the deathball gets surrounded too easily??
2) PvZ - what is the best counter to lings/infestors in mid game and late game??
Help or guidance please?? 
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On May 11 2011 09:35 bankai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 11:25 bankai wrote:
1) In PvZ macro-oriented games, I noticed that typically high level players go for the IST or ISS compositions but as the game builds up and zerg techs to ultras/broodlords, that Protoss players do not replenish sentry count.
This could be my mis-observation but, why do ppl do that?? I thought for zerg, since their numbers are so great in late game, that you NEED forcefields to restrict their movement otherwise the deathball gets surrounded too easily??
2) PvZ - what is the best counter to lings/infestors in mid game and late game?? Help or guidance please??
1) I would like to know as well, I never knew if were supposed to replace your Sentries if you lose them in the late-mid stages of the game and up. Well firstly, once Brood Lords and Ultralisks come into play, you do not need as much Sentries as say against pure Roach/Hydra. Secondly, there is no point having Sentries if you have no units that are effective against Zerg, such as Colossi or Void Rays.
2) Standard Colossi Deathball, Sentry Stalker Colossi. However, try keeping the Colossi in the front part of your army (not in the front line that gets easily Neuraled, but like not all the way in the back where the Infestors can just keep getting free Fungal Growths off). Void Rays are good once you get a 4th since it becomes a hassle for Zerg to stick to Infestor Ling once you have air units that can instantly kill Infestors.
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Another question as well actually....
Everyone always talks about 'timing pushes'. How do you know (depending on the BO you use) when your own BO is at its weakest (so we can cover it as much as possible)...and more importantly, if we can identify the build the opponent goes for, how can we work out when is their weakest point that we can make a 'timing' push??
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On May 11 2011 10:02 bankai wrote:
Another question as well actually....
Everyone always talks about 'timing pushes'. How do you know (depending on the BO you use) when your own BO is at its weakest (so we can cover it as much as possible)...and more importantly, if we can identify the build the opponent goes for, how can we work out when is their weakest point that we can make a 'timing' push??
A good way to think of weaknesses and timings is in terms of investment. Any resources that you put into tech or economy do not pay for themselves immediately. Instead, you need to wait for the tech to finish researching or the expo to complete and become saturated before you gain their benefits.
This time where your investment hasn't paid off yet is when you or your opponent are at their weakest because those resources are not in army or defense. Conversely, the time right when those investments kick in represent potential timings because they are the earliest points in the game where you or your opponent can act on those investments (that the other player may not have answers for yet).
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Here's a simple one! How can you tell if a protoss building has been canceled rather than destroyed? What is the difference?
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On May 11 2011 12:33 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 10:02 bankai wrote:
Another question as well actually....
Everyone always talks about 'timing pushes'. How do you know (depending on the BO you use) when your own BO is at its weakest (so we can cover it as much as possible)...and more importantly, if we can identify the build the opponent goes for, how can we work out when is their weakest point that we can make a 'timing' push?? A good way to think of weaknesses and timings is in terms of investment. Any resources that you put into tech or economy do not pay for themselves immediately. Instead, you need to wait for the tech to finish researching or the expo to complete and become saturated before you gain their benefits. This time where your investment hasn't paid off yet is when you or your opponent are at their weakest because those resources are not in army or defense. Conversely, the time right when those investments kick in represent potential timings because they are the earliest points in the game where you or your opponent can act on those investments (that the other player may not have answers for yet).
Ok cool thats a pretty clear definition!
So practically speaking then, what is the weak times and strong times of these:
1) PvP: 2 Gate Robo Expo into Colossus
2) PvZ: 3 Gate Sentry Expand into Colossus
3) PvT: 2 Gate Robo into Double Forge Colossus
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On May 11 2011 09:35 bankai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 11:25 bankai wrote:
1) In PvZ macro-oriented games, I noticed that typically high level players go for the IST or ISS compositions but as the game builds up and zerg techs to ultras/broodlords, that Protoss players do not replenish sentry count.
This could be my mis-observation but, why do ppl do that?? I thought for zerg, since their numbers are so great in late game, that you NEED forcefields to restrict their movement otherwise the deathball gets surrounded too easily??
2) PvZ - what is the best counter to lings/infestors in mid game and late game?? Help or guidance please??
1. When ultras/broodlords come out sentries aren't very useful anymore, and you need all the gas you have for stuff that can kill ultras/broods (i.e. void rays). But anytime before then, IMO it is a mistake/poor decision making that pros don't replenish sentry count.
2. There really is no widely accepted counter to ling/infestor at this point. Theoretically a HT based army (zeal/stalker/sentry/archon/HT) is the counter, but these strats have not been fully worked out yet, plus they die easily to any other zerg comp... so standard colossus/gateway with good macro may be your better bet.
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Assuming I 1 rax fast expand (no gas) as terran against protoss is it possible to get a factory right after expanding, go siege tanks and hold off a 4 gate or a 3-gate void-ray all-in?
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On May 11 2011 14:36 khanofmongols wrote:
Assuming I 1 rax fast expand (no gas) as terran against protoss is it possible to get a factory right after expanding, go siege tanks and hold off a 4 gate or a 3-gate void-ray all-in?
It's possible, but teching after a 1 rax FE when you don't see that the Protoss has expanded as well is IMO very risky and generally not advised.
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On May 11 2011 14:15 bankai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 12:33 Kambing wrote:On May 11 2011 10:02 bankai wrote:
Another question as well actually....
Everyone always talks about 'timing pushes'. How do you know (depending on the BO you use) when your own BO is at its weakest (so we can cover it as much as possible)...and more importantly, if we can identify the build the opponent goes for, how can we work out when is their weakest point that we can make a 'timing' push?? A good way to think of weaknesses and timings is in terms of investment. Any resources that you put into tech or economy do not pay for themselves immediately. Instead, you need to wait for the tech to finish researching or the expo to complete and become saturated before you gain their benefits. This time where your investment hasn't paid off yet is when you or your opponent are at their weakest because those resources are not in army or defense. Conversely, the time right when those investments kick in represent potential timings because they are the earliest points in the game where you or your opponent can act on those investments (that the other player may not have answers for yet). Ok cool thats a pretty clear definition! So practically speaking then, what is the weak times and strong times of these: 1) PvP: 2 Gate Robo Expo into Colossus 2) PvZ: 3 Gate Sentry Expand into Colossus 3) PvT: 2 Gate Robo into Double Forge Colossus
Before you have 3 Colossi and when you are researching Thermal Lance, once you get 3 you should be safe. This is considering you survived early game from 4 gates, other wise a 4 gate will completely crush any 2 gate build.
You are vulnerable the entire time until you get a critical amount of Stalkers with at least 2 Colossi.
When you are researching 1-1 or around when it finishes, a marine attack will be strong since you cannot afford to get the AoE (Colossus) out in time compared to as if you did not do Double Forge.
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On May 11 2011 14:34 Anihc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 09:35 bankai wrote:On May 10 2011 11:25 bankai wrote:
1) In PvZ macro-oriented games, I noticed that typically high level players go for the IST or ISS compositions but as the game builds up and zerg techs to ultras/broodlords, that Protoss players do not replenish sentry count.
This could be my mis-observation but, why do ppl do that?? I thought for zerg, since their numbers are so great in late game, that you NEED forcefields to restrict their movement otherwise the deathball gets surrounded too easily??
2) PvZ - what is the best counter to lings/infestors in mid game and late game?? Help or guidance please?? 1. When ultras/broodlords come out sentries aren't very useful anymore, and you need all the gas you have for stuff that can kill ultras/broods (i.e. void rays). But anytime before then, IMO it is a mistake/poor decision making that pros don't replenish sentry count. 2. There really is no widely accepted counter to ling/infestor at this point. Theoretically a HT based army (zeal/stalker/sentry/archon/HT) is the counter, but these strats have not been fully worked out yet, plus they die easily to any other zerg comp... so standard colossus/gateway with good macro may be your better bet.
Thanks Anihc!
On point 1, the thing I dont understand though is how to deal with big zerg numbers. Before ultras/broodlords, you need FF to keep their numbers in check with zerglings/roach/hydra otherwise you are surrounded. In the late game, they still hvae tons of zerglings/roach/hydra in the mix as well as a few ultras/broodlords. So without sentries late game (when they have ultras/broods), how do you prevent being surrounded and overwhelmed??
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On May 11 2011 14:59 iTzAnglory wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 14:15 bankai wrote:On May 11 2011 12:33 Kambing wrote:On May 11 2011 10:02 bankai wrote:
Another question as well actually....
Everyone always talks about 'timing pushes'. How do you know (depending on the BO you use) when your own BO is at its weakest (so we can cover it as much as possible)...and more importantly, if we can identify the build the opponent goes for, how can we work out when is their weakest point that we can make a 'timing' push?? A good way to think of weaknesses and timings is in terms of investment. Any resources that you put into tech or economy do not pay for themselves immediately. Instead, you need to wait for the tech to finish researching or the expo to complete and become saturated before you gain their benefits. This time where your investment hasn't paid off yet is when you or your opponent are at their weakest because those resources are not in army or defense. Conversely, the time right when those investments kick in represent potential timings because they are the earliest points in the game where you or your opponent can act on those investments (that the other player may not have answers for yet). Ok cool thats a pretty clear definition! So practically speaking then, what is the weak times and strong times of these: 1) PvP: 2 Gate Robo Expo into Colossus 2) PvZ: 3 Gate Sentry Expand into Colossus 3) PvT: 2 Gate Robo into Double Forge Colossus Before you have 3 Colossi and when you are researching Thermal Lance, once you get 3 you should be safe. This is considering you survived early game from 4 gates, other wise a 4 gate will completely crush any 2 gate build. You are vulnerable the entire time until you get a critical amount of Stalkers with at least 2 Colossi. When you are researching 1-1 or around when it finishes, a marine attack will be strong since you cannot afford to get the AoE (Colossus) out in time compared to as if you did not do Double Forge.
Thanks, makes sense and will have to keep in mind while I do these builds!
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On May 11 2011 09:24 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 09:19 TheRealPaciFist wrote:
QUESTION: Is there a good banshee opening (doesn't have to be asap, I'm thinking any opening with 1 or 2 rax, 1 fact, 1 or 2 port, with lots of marines thrown in) that can survive a four gate in TvP and do well in TvT?
I was trying to think of what build I would like to use in my TvT's, and I want to be able to harass, but I also want to be able to defend harass pretty well. One thing I could do is get, for example if I was worried about cloaked banshee harass, would be to get a fast viking + raven out of 1/1/2, but I'd have to scout well to know whether banshees were really coming out (I'm banking on the fact that my scouting will be good enough to see if he's going early tech, early expo, or bunch of rax, but not good enough to see exactly what would come out of it). So I was thinking: stimmed marines are really good at killing banshees. Maybe if I got a bunch of early marines and spread them around my base, and built my buildings very compactly, and closed off my mineral line with supply depots, I could not only defend against banshees but also against drops, e.g. hellion drop if I can kill the medivac before it gets to my mineral line. Then I might also get an engineering bay for turret + weapons upgrade, but I don't know if I could fit all that in there, so maybe saving on to energy for a scan would be better, and then waiting on raven AFTER my own banshees pop.
Then I was thinking I could also use whatever build comes out of this in TvP because the extra marines would make holding off four gate easier, and I could still harass (for a while I was doing blue flame hellion drop build, but I was kind of just dying too often, and also good stalker placement would deny the harass completely, where as banshees might be better because they can shoot without having to get close enough to drop, and they force P to get detection) For TvP, just go 2port banshee with 2 bunkers at the ramp. Bunkers should allow you to hold off a 4gate fairly easily. TvT means that you'll need some kind of anti-marine unit out (siege/hellion), so production out of at least 1 fact is necessary while going banshees. Also, keeping units in your base is bad even if it is to deter harass. This is a main role of banshees, to take the entire map while keeping you on 1/2bases.
Thanks. Follow up question:
Could somebody link me the standard BO for 1/1/2 in TvP? I'm confused as to what the best timings are for laying down refineries, tech labs, and bunkers =/
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Question1:
when im watching a stream some pros seem to be able to get 3 workers at the gas very fast and it doesent seem like their drag selecting them. How is this done? (unless they just hot keyed 3 workers)
Question2:
After beeing harrased, how can I get the 6 probes to easily return to gas when I;m using the Grid keyboard setup?
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EPT
