TvP – A Terran’s view - Page 36

On January 07 2011 22:58 Lurk wrote:


Of course we have to invest in tech switches. First off all, one production building is often not enough to produce sufficient units, even when using reactors - so you have to add production buildings. Next there is upgrades. Bio, mech and air all have completely different damage/armor upgrades so you'll have to start from scratch. And that is not to mention things like energy upgrades, cloak etc.

I'm not saying terran has a harder time tech switching than other races, but we don't have an easier time either. And saying we already have the counter to everything readily available is pretty stupid. If we have barracks, factory, starport, ghost academy and armory of course we can make everything (barring bcs). Just like a toss who has a stargate, warpgates, robo and templar archives. Just because we get it anyway does not mean that it is any easier to get.

For the record, EMP is NOT instant but is a projectile that CAN miss if the enemy moves out quickly. And it does NOT have "like infinite range" but rather slightly more (+1) range than feedback and storm.

Protoss can't do effective drops ? Just because many protoss don't recognize how awesome warp prisms are does not mean that they are useless. You should watch some games of whitera for example. He uses a lot of warp prisms lately and does really nice stuff with them. Those "paperplanes" as you call them have only 10 hp less than a medivac at equal speed. So how are they any more fragile than the medivac ? Oh and did i mention they don't cost gas ?



This one made me laugh. I'd actually like to see thors used to stomp down forcefields by anyone and still win the fight. By the time your slow ass thor walks over the forcefields, they have disappeared anyway. It's not like you have to move near a ff to crush it, you have to walk on top of it. Of and of course your 300/200 unit does a whooping 0 damage while it trying to stomp ffs.



Yes, that is why we add medivacs, vikings and ghosts to the mix.

On January 08 2011 06:45 Doz wrote:



As a diamond T player, I've always felt that tech switches could be quite troublesome. Not necessarily any more or less than any other race, but uniquely so.

Think of this: A T player on 3 bases needs at least 10-13 barracks (some reactor, some tech) to be able to constantly produce MM without having to queue in order to be able to replenish their army in a reasonable amount of time. If we got to this point and P switches to HT tech, and a T player wants to switch to mech play to stand a better chance against storms, they would have to make 5-6 factories w/ tech labs and another 1-2 with reactors, if they want to be able to replace their army in a reasonable amount of time. Or they could put down 6 starports to support BC production, but even that would take a long time to replace an army. All these structures take up a huge amount of real-estate, and a tech switch of this magnitude costs a huge amount of resources and time for the necessary production facilities to come online. It might take 4-5 minutes of play to make an effective transition army, all the while P can continue pumping units that decimate MMM out of the same 10-12 warpgates and 1-2 robo's.

My point is this: When faced with the decision of continuing MMM pushes/harrass and hoping for P to make a mistake, or gambling that you won't get overrun in a lengthy tech switch process that might not work, most will opt to hope the P makes a mistake. The pressure a good 3 base P player is able to put out can just be too much to handle for most players, so we hope for the best with our MMM/VG.

For the average diamond T such as myself, it is my humble opinion the matchup is getting boring simply because at my skill level it feels a viable tech switch is out of reach. For the pro's on the other hand, well they're just demi-gods and I envy their l33t skills.

On January 24 2011 17:44 julius33 wrote:
I just dont get it why terrans say that and i quote "Mech is immobile". Last time i checked, unsieged tanks move as fast (or maybe abit slower) then your bioball, Hellions are one of the fastest units in the game and, since most terrans go bioball with medivac early game, i dont see the harm in lifting your Thors until you need to engage. Most of the terrans i play against never really seem to abuse their mobility as even a drop in my main (mineral lines, or just killing pylons) with stimrauders will cause so much damage... Terrans really need to get better with macro, since its either 1base all-ins or just plain 2basing.

On January 24 2011 20:27 Mehukannu wrote:
Also, it is not the problem that tanks doesn't move fast enough, it is that you have to put them in siege mode for them to be effective, which then of course slows you down, because you don't want to move out most of the time without your tanks.

On January 24 2011 21:35 branflakes14 wrote:
I still find it ridiculous that Terran players forget they have a unit that can cloak, EMP and/or Snipe High Templar.

On January 07 2011 23:39 Lurk wrote:
Don't read too much into my post i was just trying to correct some things that you stated. Obviously i misunderstood your post too if i wasn't a rant about how op terran is. You're a protoss player and obviously have a biased perspective of things, just like i have as a terran player. That's why we should help each other understand the misconceptions we have about the other's race. Like me telling you emp has not infinite but 10 range and is not instant (although it actually rarely happens that you miss). You free to and i would actually appreciate you telling me about misconceptions about toss as well. This would help my understanding of the matchup and improve my play.

The message of the thread is not that it's favored one way or the other but rather a discussion to improve or diversify terran lategame tactics vs protoss. As most terrans don't fell the matchup is well-balanced but rather that we have an advantage in the early game but a disadvantage in the late game (leading to about 50% win rate and giving the impression of a balanced matchup).

On January 24 2011 22:03 Lurk wrote:
We do not forget that and most of us actually use ghosts. However, their high cost and very micro intensive skills makes mastering them virtually impossible. Snipe is a good example of this: apart from workers, unupgrades marines and zerglings you need to actually click several times to kill a single unit. While this might work well in small skirmishes, it's impossible to achieve in bigger engagements. Imagine, in order to kill 4 zealots, you need to click snipe 16 times. Now try to do that in the 1-2 seconds window you have to actually have to do this. Maybe it would be better if snipe would deal 2 damage per energy and consume as much energy as possible. So if you had 75 energy and sniped a zealot, it would consume all energy and one-shot the zealot. Or at least some auto-cast option. But as of right now, snipe is probably the most apm-intensive skill in the game if you want to use it properly.

Ghosts are a very powerful unit, probably the most powerful terran unit in the TvP matchup. However, they are also quite fragile and expensive. Also remember that not every toss is nice enough to just leave all their army unattended and clumped together so you can just walk up to them and emp them. Quite often, i had my ghost killed by feedback while trying to sneak up to the main templar force because i missed an observer and he saw me coming.

I think the biggest problem with microing ghosts is that managing a bioball (kiting zealots, dodging storms) and doing multiple drops at once is already so micro intensive that there is little attention span left to do sneaky little ghost "ops". Maybe it's easier to do that while playing mech which takes less micro to maintain, but then you will have trouble finding the gas for ghosts.