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On November 20 2010 09:38 kNyTTyM wrote:
Do you see your play hitting a roadblock any time soon? If so how are you going to work around that since the essence of cheese is surprise?
The great thing about cheese is that both good players and bad players are prone to it. I'd assume that i'll eventually start hitting a road block (maybe around 2000 pts) because that's when people have more than 500 games. With the lack of diamond random cheesers, not many players have had the TRUE full experience of being cheesed.
It's easy to defend against a six pool if you know your opponent is zerg, because most protoss players will pop up two early gateways anyway. However, if you pop up two early gateways instead of 1 gateway one cybernetic core, you'll be prone to being kited by marines.
It's not really my skill of cheese that's allowing me to win. It's more like the opponent doesn't know how to start off his build.
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On November 20 2010 09:38 MeteorMash wrote:
Keep it up! Everyone expects us random players to cheese so I get away with fast expos all the time!
no problem. i don't like fast expanding with random because by that time, the opponent will already scout what you're doing.
-Stay Moist
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What do you do against another random race?
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Can you still pull wins from someone who knows your play style? Like, I'm a standard player and do much better in 1v1's than my housemate buddy in general, but he seems to have a better read on the style of games I play and therefore wins more often between just us. I'd imagine because cheese is way more one-dimensional, you'd have an even harder time with that? I guess I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on how suitable your cheeses would be for tournaments, or is it purely a laddering strategy?
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Do you consider cheesing a waste of time, or do you have fun doing it?
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On November 20 2010 09:43 dukethegold wrote:
What's your overall win rate?
around 55%. But isn't the point of the BattleNet MMR supposed to keep you around that win ratio? If you keep winning, you'll just player harder opponents. And by harder, i mean players with more points, which means they have more games played, which means that they're more experienced with dealing with cheese.
-Stay Moist
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Can you make more than 20 workers in a single game?
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What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen european swallow?
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On November 20 2010 09:47 Griffith` wrote:
What do you do against another random race?
Have you ever seen a game where both players six pool? Or when both players go all in 7rr? How about when both players cannon rush. Because I have. In fact, i've experienced it... several times.
It's actually not that many times i've experienced it. I probably encounter a random player for every 25 games i play....
On November 20 2010 09:49 smallerk wrote:
Do you consider cheesing a waste of time, or do you have fun doing it?
it's all about fun bro.
-Stay Moist
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On November 20 2010 09:49 Gemini_19 wrote:
Can you make more than 20 workers in a single game?
yes, it's called cannon rushing. dual planetary fortress rush....
don't ask me how it works. i've had very little success with it...
but like this one time, a protoss player decide to attack me without scouting first. His army was distanced away from his base... and when he reached my base there was nothing there besides a few supply, and an engineering bay.
then i landed my command center as his choke to prevent his units from coming in while landing the other command center next to his nexus.
-Stay Moist
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I myself am a 2.3k diamond random player, and I must say that if you have good micro and you cheese every game, you'll pull off a good record. I'm not saying I cheese every game, but occasionally I will, and to be honest I rarely lose when I do. Cheesing 100% of the time gets boring though, so I don't do it. If anything, cheesing is even more effective at higher levels on the ladder because people suspect it less and less. However... everyone's always a bit suspicious of a random player...
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I cheese all the time on my smurf account after I lose a ZvZ on my diamond main
makes me feel better.
DT rush, cannon rush, you name it protoss has it lol
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What is the most effective cheese of all the races? At low level it feels like 2 gate / cannon rush is, how about at the high(er) levels?
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Sigh... how I hate cheese. Honestly, I think most randoms do cheese. It seems every time I play on ladder people expect me to cheese (I'm random).
I would say your understanding of other races is supremely limited compared to that of other random users, as a result of your cheesing. Lets face it, cheesing is generally easier. Although I have NEVER cheesed on ladder, I do it all the time in custom games in order to learn the timings and such. I almost never lose when I cheese.
What slays me is how easy it is too cheese. I'm not very good at sc1, as I barely played it. But it seems cheese was harder in that game. 6 pools are volatile openings (even with good scouting, depending on the map) in 2 match ups and they often don't result in an insta-loss if the games progress (due to probe/drone kills). The ratio of difficulty to cheese and difficulty to defend it is greatly askew. This is why you see 1850 pt diamond users that only cheese (not to discredit you, you'd probably kick my ass in any form of a game, just an example).
In the end, to each their own. My personal opinions is cheese is a relatively skill-less (skillless?) way of winning and feels cheap and dirty to me. But then, who doesn't like winning. I don't enjoy cheesing, and I despise getting cheesed. But if you enjoy, power to ya. Be warned, we run into each other on ladder, I get cheesed, I often BM ( getting better though).
I do think it's cool you're trying to help people defend the cheese though, props.
My 2 cents on defending cheese.
General points: SCOUT- This is vital, often times a scout will determine whether or not you do quick wall, earlier pool, double gate/rax. I've lost many a game to 6 pools that would've been crushed had I scouted on 9 and put pool on 10-12 as opposed to my normal econ based 14/15 pool.
Protect your ramp, protect your probes- if at all possible run your probes in circles until you can get an attacking units out. If you must engage (SCV all in etc) I like to do it at my ramp. it decreased surface area he can attack from, as in open space he'll probably have the advantage.
Don't be super passive- Ok, so you've survived his first attack... now what? Many times I've remained passive and expected another attack to come, turns out he made a whole round of drones or something like that and now has the econ lead. don't be afraid to be aggressive after defending, you don't necessarily have the lead. I find this happens to me most often when getting 6 pooled as protoss. I double gate upon seeing 6 pool, hold off with some probe losses, then suddenly have 3 zealots. I think it is almost always a wise move to be counter aggressive.
Just some thoughts, I might be wrong. Let me know.
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PvP scouting your base 9/10 times and that 1 time you are distracted irl or something and forget...there is a cannon rush coming / korean warp gate and you just want to rip your face off and kill your opponent with your bare hands... cheese is fun! 
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can you give us a list of cheeses you use?
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do u do that awesomely annoying probes rush (just probes x scv)
how the hell ppl supposed to deffend it ?
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What is the best Way defending a Korean-4-Gate?
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On November 20 2010 10:48 Reignyo wrote:
can you give us a list of cheeses you use?
yes, please, would love a follow up of your most favorite cheeses, ala
as zerg, my favorite cheese against zerg is...
as zerg, my favorite cheese against terran is...
as zerg, my favorite cheese against protoss is...
as protoss, my favorite cheese against protoss is...
as protoss, my favorite cheese against terran is...
as protoss, my favorite cheese against zerg is...
as terran, my favorite cheese against protoss is...
as terran, my favorite cheese against terran is...
as terran, my favorite cheese against zerg is...
it may be a bit of writing on your part, but it would be great information for those, like myself, who wonder what Random cheesers are most likely to do
thx
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1850 isn't high anymore just so you know. It's like upper medium.
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Do you participate in tournaments? In my heart I would like to believe that cheese only works once in a BO3, and thats why pro's only practice a few cheese strats.
In fact I would put out that you are probably a wimp using cheese on ladder with random players 
(at least I hope, since I hate cheese, and by extension maybe I even hate you)
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EPT
