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MrMoist.250
Yes, I have some how accumulated 1850 points by cheesing. (there are a few games where i actually try to macro up).
This discussion is to help players (from all skill level) to be able to defend against Random Cheese, which as we know is the most delicious type of cheese.
Few tips that I've came up with so far.
Six pool is very effective against protoss players that scout at 9 on all 4 player maps. (right after they use that probe to build a pylon).
Getting early marauders with concussive shells is a great way to start off a game against a protoss player (with little damage to economy)
Cheesing Terran is extremely hard. They're like the anti-cheese race. Don't do it. UNLESS it is a 12 drone rush. It was flawlessly against terran players. Funny stuff.
7RR is just bad. It might work on protoss but that's about it.
anything else? Also, as random player, I think I know a lot more about balance than most players... Although cheesing kind of lowers my credibility.
EDIT: DUE TO POPULAR REQUESTS, I WILL START UPLOADING A FEW OF MY REPLAYS.
TvP Early Marauder
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-163963.jpg)
ZvT 12 Drone
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-167377.jpg)
Most of these are cliched cheese, I didn't save most my other replays, i'll upload them again when I do it again.
-Stay Moist
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How do you live with yourself.
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what do you do in ZvZ vs 6 pool + spine rush on small maps?
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coming out of the closet?
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On November 20 2010 09:12 ChickenLips wrote:
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On November 20 2010 09:11 Competent wrote:
How do you live with yourself.
LOL.
Err, I find cheesing to be the bane of my existence on 4 player maps.
I'm a protoss so seeing a stream of zerglings at my ramp right after i see his base is just lol.
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On November 20 2010 09:11 Competent wrote:
How do you live with yourself.
It's actually quite easy. By putting on a cloak of internet tough guy by cheesing and drowning my emotional pains by making other starcraft players feel terrible because they've just been cheesed, I can hide the fact that I'm actually a lonely little Asian boy seeking attention because I receive none from my parents.
-Stay Moist
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Which cheeses do you find the most effective?
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On November 20 2010 09:11 Competent wrote:
How do you live with yourself.
how u cheese on long maps? proxies?
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Do you feel like spending those games cheesing has been a waste of time? Do you think you could be a better player if you would have spent them using real builds?
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How do you defend against a cannon rush in your mineral lines? The normal ones are easy to hold off but I've had trouble the few times I've encountered this.
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On November 20 2010 09:17 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Which cheeses do you find the most effective?
Definately the marauder+concussive early game push against protoss players. It's not difficult to defend against, if the protoss player has good micro... which for some reason I don't see too often...
Bunker rush is also quite hilarious if pulled off successfully. (Protip for bunker rushes, place the bunker in a position where it's either touching the zerg's hatchery, minerals, or a wall. That way zerglings can't get a surround)
-Stay Moist
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On November 20 2010 09:19 Suffo wrote:
how u cheese on long maps? proxies?
A real cheeser sets his map filters to select the shortest maps. Which is exactly what I did. I eliminated maps that are difficult to cheese on.
-Stay Moist
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Well I say go for it. Sc2 favors that kind of stuff so why not. As long as you aren't one of those rude bm cheesers.  !
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On November 20 2010 09:24 K3Nyy wrote:
How do you defend against a cannon rush in your mineral lines? The normal ones are easy to hold off but I've had trouble the few times I've encountered this.
Define normal and define cannon rush in your mineral lines.
By normal, if you mean building cannons outside the base then the probe will move inside the base to build cannons, then all you have to do is just not let the probe in your base. (wall off with workers or something) having a lack of 3-4 workers is a lot better than having 3-4 cannons in your base.
For cannon rushing into mineral lines? I don't even know how that's possible. If you see a probe building a pylon in your base, chase the probe around with one worker, while sending some wokers to kill the pylon.
Also, by the time of a cannon rush, if you're playing terran, you should already have a barrack out. Just build a bunker within the cannons range while the cannon is being produced. It takes 40 seconds to produce a cannon and 35 seconds to produce a bunker.
marines in bunker have 6 range. Cannons have 7 range, a neglegible difference, and will "usually" stop a cannon rush while you tech to marauders.
-Stay Moist
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On November 20 2010 09:24 justle wrote:
Do you feel like spending those games cheesing has been a waste of time? Do you think you could be a better player if you would have spent them using real builds?
In perspective, StarCraft 2 is a waste of time. School is a waste of time. Work is a waste of time. Attracting mates is a waste of time.
So, what makes something not a waste of time? The answer to that question is very philisophical, but i've' came to the conclusion that as long as you're reaping rewards from it, then it no longer is a waste of time.
If I enjoy cheesing as much as someone who macros up, why shouldn't I just cheese? Maybe I'm not as "good" as the other player. Big deal, it's all about reaping the rewards in the aftermath. We both end up having same ladder points, we both probably have same tournament records, and we both probably enjoy the game.
-Stay Moist
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Do you see your play hitting a roadblock any time soon? If so how are you going to work around that since the essence of cheese is surprise?
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Keep it up! Everyone expects us random players to cheese so I get away with fast expos all the time!
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On November 20 2010 09:37 FarJeylZmun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2010 09:24 justle wrote:
Do you feel like spending those games cheesing has been a waste of time? Do you think you could be a better player if you would have spent them using real builds? In perspective, StarCraft 2 is a waste of time. School is a waste of time. Work is a waste of time. Attracting mates is a waste of time. So, what makes something not a waste of time? The answer to that question is very philisophical, but i've' came to the conclusion that as long as you're reaping rewards from it, then it no longer is a waste of time. If I enjoy cheesing as much as someone who macros up, why shouldn't I just cheese? Maybe I'm not as "good" as the other player. Big deal, it's all about reaping the rewards in the aftermath. We both end up having same ladder points, we both probably have same tournament records, and we both probably enjoy the game.
No no by winning an equal amount of games at the same level, you are by definition as good.
On November 20 2010 09:38 kNyTTyM wrote:
Do you see your play hitting a roadblock any time soon? If so how are you going to work around that since the essence of cheese is surprise?
Imo there is no roadblock. I think many popular cheeses are underused in the GSL and other big tournies. Maybe because of the gamble factor but still every good player should have a couple of cheeses in their arsenal. You'd be surprised how easily some 2.1-2.2k players I have faced fall apart vs a korean 4wg, 5 stalker or rine/scv rush vs 1gate fe.
People always end up cutting edges in their builds just to get that minor heads up on their opponent in the macro game. Cheesers will always thrive on that, and it's on a whole other level in sc2 than bw.
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What's your overall win rate?
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EPT
