EPTBoth in 1v1 and 2v2.
Been playing around with my off-race in some 2v2's with a friend, and I must honestly say; the feeling of doing a succesful proxy hatch is almost, to use the words of another poster, as good as the touch of a woman.
Ask a 1850pt Random Diamond Cheeser anything. - Page 8
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UncleOwnage
Denmark36 Posts
Both in 1v1 and 2v2. Been playing around with my off-race in some 2v2's with a friend, and I must honestly say; the feeling of doing a succesful proxy hatch is almost, to use the words of another poster, as good as the touch of a woman. | ||
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Afterhours
United States125 Posts
Cheesing tilts so many players because its, in essence, like taking a shit on someones carefully laid plans for taking over Rome. The amount of effort and thought it took a cheese build to win is much less than a macro-oriented game. And thus your peers, who arent your buddies, will think less of your play. Buts its the internet and you can do that without cheesing anyways. So..... props? | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
so what do you suggest we do? scout later? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45439 Posts
On November 22 2010 09:24 pilsken wrote: Cannon rush vs FE / cannon wall-in are reliable as cheese gets. cheese is per definitionem never reliable and can never be. If it would be reliable, it wouldn't be cheese but a solid strategy. Reliable is only good macro/micro, awarness, scouting and decision making. 1850 Diamond with Cheese show exactly zero amount of skill. If you only ever play till the 6th min max, you need very little skill. Like Day9 said, you could easily 4-gate your way to the top of diamond (and if the guys in the state-of-the-game podcast don't tell bullshit, thats exactly what OptikZero has done) and this is even worse than 4-gating. Any decent player might lose to this shit once, but really never twice. I know right? People have some nerve using good, safe strategies that work incredibly well in general. How dare they not ONLY make one of every single unit before pushing out, in order to honor the obviously clear intentions of the game designers? /sarcasm If it ain't broke, don't fix it. | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
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quantumslip
United States188 Posts
cheesing is something that perhaps you should do once in a while; it's good to have some in your back pocket. a win is a win. when TLO did a 6-pool, i don't recall people saying "OMG CHEEZE U SUX"... | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On November 22 2010 10:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I know right? People have some nerve using good, safe strategies that work incredibly well in general. How dare they not ONLY make one of every single unit before pushing out, in order to honor the obviously clear intentions of the game designers? /sarcasm If it ain't broke, don't fix it. different mindsets i guess. most people play here for competition,to get better and not to get ladder wins(lolsrs stuff!) as easy as possible. but hey, if you think winning without actually beeing better and doing the same one dimensional stuff over and over again is fun then ya, keep doing it. | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
btw, I'm going to ask about the marauder concussive shell push against protoss. what's the build order behind it? | ||
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Draktharr
Canada17 Posts
And for ur 2nd replay, you should know that gg = "good game", not "end of the game" the game was just horrible | ||
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DaemonX
545 Posts
1) 7RR all-in cheese crushes terrans on small maps. I can't believe you haven't found this. 2) I have found great sucess blocking cheese vs randoms, because I assume the random is cheesing, and am willing to even hurt my build to stop it blind - knowing full well that I can afford the eco hit. This is because Randoms cannot match my macro game past tier 1 due to him having 1/3 the experience playing the race. So he cheeses and auto-loses, or doesn't and loses anyway. Why doesn't this happen to you more at your level? 3) How often do Protoss scout you early and just forge-cannon wall into 4-gate? | ||
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
On November 22 2010 23:00 DaemonX wrote: 2) I have found great sucess blocking cheese vs randoms, because I assume the random is cheesing, and am willing to even hurt my build to stop it blind - knowing full well that I can afford the eco hit. This is because Randoms cannot match my macro game past tier 1 due to him having 1/3 the experience playing the race. So he cheeses and auto-loses, or doesn't and loses anyway. Why doesn't this happen to you more at your level? Simply because many don't adapt to randoms. They are dumb and do what they always do and then cry out loud. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
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Dance.
United States389 Posts
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RemrafGrez
United States180 Posts
Great topic by the way... education and entertainment. | ||
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MrMoist
United States72 Posts
On November 22 2010 09:11 57 Corvette wrote: Is there any decent cheese A protoss can use against zerg at the 1400 diamond level with a good success rate? (Not cannon rush, something reliable) Early game cheese? No. Unless the zerg goes for a fast expand, then you can just lay some proxy gateways and harass the drones. Although this is quite risky because zerg can get out zerglings really fast. Mid game "cheese" is still more viable. proxying some pylons randomly and warping in High templars with storm can easily wipe out mineral lines, armys, and more. On November 22 2010 09:22 Doraemon wrote: how do i stay moist? In order to stay moist, you must first be moist. Achieving that saturated level of moistness is quite difficult, and only the dedicated can achieve. On November 22 2010 09:36 aeoliant wrote: what's your favourite thing to say after they scout your cheese? like during that moment where you know your opponent is like "oh shiii-". usually i stick to the old but still classy 'how do you like dem apples?" OH GOD, IS IT ISN'T WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. NO PLEASE DON'T DO IT. NO PLEASE DON'T WALL OFF  On November 22 2010 09:31 Frobert wrote: Macro is a gentleman's game. What about the female starcraft 2 players? On November 22 2010 09:44 UncleOwnage wrote: What's the best way to do a proxy hatch? Both in 1v1 and 2v2. Proxy hatch is so hard to do now ever since it took spinecrawlers to take >9000 hours to plant themselves. But yeah, proxy hatch then plant spinecrawlers + queens with transfusion to protect it. I think i have a replay of this somewhere... i'll post it later if i can find it. On November 22 2010 10:32 mOnion wrote: 6pool is most effective when toss scouts as early as possible? awesome so what do you suggest we do? scout later? I dont' think you understood what i mean by scouting at 9. Scouting at 9 is LATE on a 4 playered map against a random player. you usually want to scout even earlier than that. On November 22 2010 13:01 Draktharr wrote: The reason why I'm going to stop playing sc2 and switch to diablo 3 asap the beta will get out is in this thread And for ur 2nd replay, you should know that gg = "good game", not "end of the game" the game was just horrible Yeah, i forgot, you're never supposed to show BM to terran players. because then they'll just lift off into a corner and afk while you have to tech to weaponized overlords. On November 22 2010 23:00 DaemonX wrote: Two points of critique rather than questions, but I'd be interested in your feedback... 1) 7RR all-in cheese crushes terrans on small maps. I can't believe you haven't found this. 2) I have found great sucess blocking cheese vs randoms, because I assume the random is cheesing, and am willing to even hurt my build to stop it blind - knowing full well that I can afford the eco hit. This is because Randoms cannot match my macro game past tier 1 due to him having 1/3 the experience playing the race. So he cheeses and auto-loses, or doesn't and loses anyway. Why doesn't this happen to you more at your level? 3) How often do Protoss scout you early and just forge-cannon wall into 4-gate? 1. Not if the terran player bunkers up (i'm talking 3+ bunkers). which SHOULD be done if you see a queen slowly walking to your base and an early roach warren. 2. Sadly, a lot of diamond players believe that cannons are for "noobs". I rarely see a protoss player defend his base with cannons. Also, on a 4 player map, and if a protoss player scouts at 9, and misses the first scout, my zerglings will already be up and running by the time his scout even reaches my base. 3. When in doubt. more zerglings. On November 23 2010 02:21 RemrafGrez wrote: Sounds like Protoss have the worst time defending cheese. Anybody surprised? Great topic by the way... education and entertainment. definately. before reaper nerf, i would pull off a 80% win percentage with reaper rushes alone. -Stay Moist | ||
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skipdog172
United States331 Posts
Everybody here acts like they are so much better because they want to play macro games, and yet they don't want to lose to cheese and get as much out of it as any other loss. You are angry because somebody else can outplay you in a micro game. Every person who posts an insult in this thread shows that you are just like this cheeser - don't care much about improving. You just want to play macro starcraft and don't want to learn how to beat cheese. This is like the cheeser just wanting to play cheesy starcraft and don't want to learn how to macro. Stop acting like you are better because you prefer the macro game. No, I don't cheese myself. I don't find it much fun. I don't see a point in hating on somebody who prefers to cheese. I love playing against these guys. It is great practice! Isn't that the point of playing? | ||
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canSore
132 Posts
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On November 23 2010 05:36 canSore wrote: winning is winning. I don't know why everyone looks down upon cheese. Sometimes you have to cheese to win. If you're oponent is doing double proxy gate ways inside your main, and you go 6 pool (which is the counter) is that still cheese? generally speaking counter-cheese opponent (proxy hatch etc) is proper strategy however 6pool and proxy gates are not based on what your opponent is doing so its just both players cheesing | ||
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Cheshyr
United States78 Posts
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DavidMcF
United Kingdom189 Posts
I almost always beat it and its an easy win for me, maybe platinum and low diamond 6poolers are just shit at it. | ||
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