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PulseSUI
Switzerland305 Posts
On September 12 2010 12:17 kme wrote: Carriers have the best DPS in the game. no they do not. they have good burst damage, but there DPS is among the lowest in the entire game. interceptors have a weaponcooldown of 3 seconds, giving each Interceptor 3.33 DPS, a full carrier only does 26.5 DPS. what carriers have however is Burst damage, once the graviton tech is done, they do 80 Burst damage, wich is the highest of any unit in the game. but DPS? no.. | ||
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Drfluffy
United States96 Posts
In game 1 I lost to a pretty high level diamond due to mis micro, and in game 3 I lost to another diamond when he dt dropped me(had no detector, will not make this mistake again). At that moment I had massive macro advantage, but I threw it all away again, due to mismicro and DT blocking ramp. Replay: Drfluffy vs. Klonoa, a 907 pt Z, in contrast I am 797pt with slightly slower APM. I just try to make a point that my opponent is potentially a more skilled player and he definitely saw my stargate as well as my carrier. Also note that xel naga cavern is a good map for Z, considering the flank routes and lack of cliff for carriers to abuse. this strategy is more effective on say, lost temple. Take home point: roach hydra is not an effective counter to carrier play. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/79336-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns My current carrier macro approach 1. 2 gate making gateway units as needed to defend against early push 2. stargate with phoenix for scouting/V ray if spawn close 3. make fleet beacon, produce carrier 4. Move out to secure expansion as carrier becomes complete 5. as second expansion become online, research high temp tech In my humble experience, each expansion can support 2-3 gateway and 1 stargate. detection is necessary against P and T. (more so for P, I think) | ||
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NoirShinra
United States14 Posts
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Drfluffy
United States96 Posts
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NoirShinra
United States14 Posts
If he had more stalkers and some sentries to use guardian shield instead of the collosi, I think the stalkers and carriers would have been able to snipe down the corruptors faster than the corrupters take out the carriers because the corruptors have the same range as stalkers. If you micro the carrier/s back, the stalkers spend more time shooting down the corruptors. I think when it comes to a battle of carrier/stalker/sentry against corruptor/hydra or roach of decent composition of both, it will really come down to the player who has the better micro in that battle. | ||
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Drfluffy
United States96 Posts
On September 13 2010 12:50 NoirShinra wrote: If you watch the replay I posted a few posts back, you can see that when I realized that the hydras weren't going to cut it I made corruptors. There was about 10-12 on the field which allowed me the win. But I kind of think it was because my opponent decided to get collosi to deal with my hydras. If he had more stalkers and some sentries to use guardian shield instead of the collosi, I think the stalkers and carriers would have been able to snipe down the corruptors faster than the corrupters take out the carriers because the corruptors have the same range as stalkers. If you micro the carrier/s back, the stalkers spend more time shooting down the corruptors. I think when it comes to a battle of carrier/stalker/sentry against corruptor/hydra or roach of decent composition of both, it will really come down to the player who has the better micro in that battle. my apologies as I got early class tomorrow and can't afford to watch a long replay before I go to sleep, but just wondering if high temp tech was involved? It seems that carrier + HT is a real killer against Z, I honestly don't know what counters this tech route. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
He goes mass Void Rays with Flux Vanes. They are mobile, and they contain me. My only counter is the Hydralisk. Not that good of a counter since I can't catch up to Void Rays. With tons of Hydralisks, if I move out, I move out too slowly, and he can attack my base while I'm moving out with the Void Rays. He goes Void Rays into Carriers off 2 bases. I have no response. Upgraded 2-2, they tear through Hydralisks. Corruptors don't come out because of Void Rays (and Spire was already sniped), so the Carriers took me by surprise. I think a better move would have been Mutalisks in that situation, but I question their viability until I get a large number. Upgraded Carriers will wreck anything Zerg has except for mass Corruptors. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On September 13 2010 00:00 PulseSUI wrote: no they do not. they have good burst damage, but there DPS is among the lowest in the entire game. interceptors have a weaponcooldown of 3 seconds, giving each Interceptor 3.33 DPS, a full carrier only does 26.5 DPS. what carriers have however is Burst damage, once the graviton tech is done, they do 80 Burst damage, wich is the highest of any unit in the game. but DPS? no.. I have seen this mistake made too many times to count. Somehow people never think that tanks do 50 dps and battlecruisers 6 dps, but people always calculate carrier dps as interceptorsX8, even in BW (40 DPS!!) | ||
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NoirShinra
United States14 Posts
On September 13 2010 12:54 Drfluffy wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 13 2010 12:50 NoirShinra wrote: If you watch the replay I posted a few posts back, you can see that when I realized that the hydras weren't going to cut it I made corruptors. There was about 10-12 on the field which allowed me the win. But I kind of think it was because my opponent decided to get collosi to deal with my hydras. If he had more stalkers and some sentries to use guardian shield instead of the collosi, I think the stalkers and carriers would have been able to snipe down the corruptors faster than the corrupters take out the carriers because the corruptors have the same range as stalkers. If you micro the carrier/s back, the stalkers spend more time shooting down the corruptors. I think when it comes to a battle of carrier/stalker/sentry against corruptor/hydra or roach of decent composition of both, it will really come down to the player who has the better micro in that battle. my apologies as I got early class tomorrow and can't afford to watch a long replay before I go to sleep, but just wondering if high temp tech was involved? It seems that carrier + HT is a real killer against Z, I honestly don't know what counters this tech route. High templars were not involved in that game. But yeah, high templars really are fear for any zerg player. Maybe you can do the standard opening with the decent ground force, carrier coming out at the 9 min mark, then start pumping out high templars. I don't know how well 2 bases can support the unit composition with gas, but if you can manage it I assume it would be extremely effective against zerg. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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Drfluffy
United States96 Posts
The only mistakes I can see the terran made is that he failed to stim marauder my nexus, but not sure if that would have worked in late game. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/80032-1v1-terran-protoss-metalopolis List of mistakes I made due to tired hand (I am usually better at mechanics) 1. Very early game probe stopped (5 probe) because I tried the +7% mineral trick and didn't do it correctly 2. chronoboosted a supply blocked carrier 3. forgot to research graviton catapult the whole game 4. Forgot to mine from a whole refinery (+4 idling probes) 5. had 1000 excess mineral at one point 6. failed to micro well during a big battle. 7. multiple carrier bad rally points. 8. attack a banshe with a force consist of solely with high temp and zealot I am almost too embarassed to post this replay, but I try to make a point. My point is, this strategy does not appearently even require perfect execution. Could this be perfected into a build that's standard for PvZ and PvT? We also expoed about the same time. Again, I begin to transit into templar tech as I took the second base | ||
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Drfluffy
United States96 Posts
Another ladder game with carrier macro build, this time losing to a terran, whose plat but appearently shown as "slightly favored" to my 700 something diamond. His APM is also much higher T started with bunker reaper harass, did not work, while I went with the 1 gate 1 stargate fast void ray due to spawn location. Void ray worked, took out some building and some SCVs but he pushed. Held off with v ray but lost all ground army, transit into carrier. Attempted to carrier harass but ground force was caught out of position again. After that wave and wave of terran bio whittle down my defense. I had advantage, I think, until I failed to defend against bio ball Trivia: hero carrier had 17 kill before going down, and I am gonna give it a name, Carrio. Carrio just wasn't good enough for Aiur. Lesson learned: because this is a macro build, my troop number is few while I expand. Usually my opponents opt not to push after a successful V ray harass, but this T was different and pushed and I was caught out of position. Modifying my carrier build: I think now for added insurance I will not expand until first carrier is half way done, and first carrier should always stay on defense. Considered first carrier is a signifcant part of the fighting force. | ||
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curv3
Brazil24 Posts
Rocks Blockage > Carriers  | ||
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pechkin
158 Posts
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pyaar
United States423 Posts
BCs map control lol, maybe on steppes of war or something | ||
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Slago
Canada726 Posts
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MilkTea
United States3 Posts
On September 12 2010 17:58 NoirShinra wrote: I recently played against a protoss player who went an early carrier. If I remember right, it came out either the 9ish or 12ish minute mark. That's a pretty big difference in SC time, but that's why I attached a replay!! The match was played in diamond too. So there are some mistakes that I did, but I think my opponent made some more drastic mistakes which allowed me the win. BUT! If it weren't for them, the match would have been much harder and there's a good possibility I would have lost. My scouting missed the fleet beacon, so I assumed void rays and seeing that carrier did cause some good over reaction on my side. And it wasn't like the carrier was the 'hero' carrier either, it had a decent ground force with it as well. I'm sure someone can refine this play and make it extremely viable in diamond level play for protoss. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-148342.jpg) It's an honor to have one of my games in this thread. I've refined my one base carrier timing push to a much higher level now (and have, myself, become much better). I might make a thread one of these days with my strategy because it is an extremely powerful PvT and PvZ (mostly PvT) strategy, even at the higher levels, for any Protoss player to have. For now I am still collecting replays. | ||
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Drfluffy
United States96 Posts
1. P carrier composition defeat anything T can throw at him at 200/200 except BC (I've never seen BC in a real 1v1 ladder outside of BC rush though because teching to BC means weak viking force) 2. T one base all in is extremely powerful, bioball can abuse the timing before carrier comes out. - implication: PvT must be played conservatively, do not get 2nd base before carrier comes out, carrier should never separate from main force. 3. Z's ultimate composition (ultra + corruptor) rofl pwns carrier + gateway units but there is a large timing window after first carrier come out until T3. P needs to be on the offensive. I have some more replays, will post once I organize them. | ||
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farseerdk
Canada504 Posts
Carrier tech switch to break a stalemate in pvt. | ||
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broke
39 Posts
It was a two base protoss that went 7-phoenix, then followed it up with a 25 zealots and 3 carrier push. | ||
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