EPTYay Terran? lol.
Seriously though.. Carriers don't have enough staying power.. Especially against Terran.
Protoss Carrier and SC2 - Page 2
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Prophecy3
Canada223 Posts
Yay Terran? lol. Seriously though.. Carriers don't have enough staying power.. Especially against Terran. | ||
micronesia
United States24776 Posts
On August 24 2010 13:24 Zato-1 wrote: Yes, Carriers do eat through Vikings like they are nothing. Each interceptor deals 5x2 damage, meaning they absolutely tear through the health of vikings because they have base armor 0; it takes less than two volleys of 8 interceptors to kill a Viking. On the other hand, Carriers have a lot of health, so Vikings can't take them out nearly fast enough to win; at 28 damage per attack (24 once shields are down), it takes 18 Viking attacks to kill 1 Carrier. Try it out in XGDragon's Unit Tester. Also, kiting a range 8 unit with a range 9 unit isn't really effective. Yeah, BCs are one of the effective counters to Carriers. Base armor 3 = GG against an attack that deals 5x2 damage. I just played around with it... 6 carriers is 6*(350+250+100) = 6*700 resources = 4200 resources 19 vikings is 19*(175+50) = 19*225 resources = 4275 I have the vikings focus fire the carriers with no other micro Result: Even... neither side has an advantage This was because I chose a quantity that allowed the vikings to take less shots to kill the carriers... if I went down or up 1 carrier then the carriers were favored... so at best it seems like the vikings are even, at worst outmatched assuming gas isn't more valuable than mins (which they are but I slightly compensated for that by giving a fraction of an extra unit to team viking. I tried it with 0-0 upgrades and 3-3-3 | ||
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Andreww
United States1 Post
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lololol
5198 Posts
Vikings beat carriers with equal resource investement and upgrades, even if you're wasting a huge amount of damage in overkill, as it would happen if you focus fire with a lot of vikings on the same target. The only case where vikings do not win vs carriers is in a 1v3, since the carrier mantains 100% of it's dps during the whole fight, which won't be the case with more carriers. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On August 24 2010 14:03 Drfluffy wrote: carrier can kite BC indefinitely. Well, the BCs can just massacre the Interceptors. It won't kill the Carriers, but it puts them out of commission for some time and gives the BCs map control. | ||
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imbecile
563 Posts
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Drfluffy
United States96 Posts
On August 24 2010 22:10 Zato-1 wrote: Well, the BCs can just massacre the Interceptors. It won't kill the Carriers, but it puts them out of commission for some time and gives the BCs map control. I don't know, BCs are slow and not good at maintaining map control, their ATA weapon sucks which means they can't shot out interceptors fast enough. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On August 24 2010 23:24 Drfluffy wrote: I don't know, BCs are slow and not good at maintaining map control, their ATA weapon sucks which means they can't shot out interceptors fast enough. Yes they can, in my experience. Carrier DPS vs. Battlecruisers is _awful_, their armor reduces interceptor damage by 60% (assuming their armor upgrades keep up with Carrier attack upgrades); Battlecruisers get plenty of time to shoot all those mosquitoes out of the sky. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On August 24 2010 22:53 imbecile wrote: A build that I train atm, only on island maps like LT or DO:
This sounds pretty interesting. How's it going for you so far ? I could see this going well if your opponent doesn't really scout you, but a scan could cripple you I think. Also this might struggle against early pressure. | ||
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imbecile
563 Posts
On August 24 2010 23:52 Wolf wrote: This sounds pretty interesting. How's it going for you so far ? I could see this going well if your opponent doesn't really scout you, but a scan could cripple you I think. Also this might struggle against early pressure. As I said, only training, against YABOT green tea. Works really well. Better against Z. But then again, AI is predictable. But AI is also more diligent at scouting islands than most humans. Early it is the same as any 2 gate robo. There is a period of vulnerability, sure. But your main can be protected by force field, and the island is protected by the carriers. If it gets rough, add cannons. And that period of vulnerability you have to cover up by warp prism harass. The pivotal point is the first warp prism drop. It's rather early, and you have a little resources saved up for the island expo. Depending on what you see then, you gotta make a decision how to go on: go for the expo, or add more gates immediately or whatever. But against computer I don't need to make any adjustments. IMHO the key to using carriers is air the weapon upgrade. No other unit benefits so much from an attack upgrade as carrier. 16 dmg per level. | ||
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bebe01
Korea (South)512 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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monterto
Canada103 Posts
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TheGrimace
United States929 Posts
On August 25 2010 00:49 monterto wrote: Blizzard had the good graces of pitting me against some silver players and I saw a few carrier "builds". Multitasks can hold their own and corruptors decimate them esp with contaminate. Multitasks? I might start calling them that actually... I've seen a game turned by carriers, but I agree that it relies quite a bit on surprise. I'm not comfortable putting so much into a fast carrier build, though if you have some replays I'd be interested in seeing how it went for you. This thread did raise a question in my mind though. Do interceptors benefit from armor upgrades? | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
They do tend to build too slowly to make an acceptable army out of though, but for T3 I would rather have an army of battlecruisers but I would want carriers for support over BC's. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
900 diamond point T/P player and I am yet to lose a late game PvT. Watch Socke's games for insipiration, though I didn't get inspired by him. | ||
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Cambam
United States360 Posts
1.) They take a long time to get to and make and the strategy is "ruined" if they're scouted 2.) They're hard countered by corrupters. So in the few games I've played against my friend's carrier build, I find both of these aren't problems for him. He goes for a very quick stargate (around 24-26 supply), so he gets them quick, but is vulnerable in the beginning. However, I don't attack him in the beginning because I'm fast expanding. By the time I've got my expansion up and start making an army, he's already got a considerable ground army to defend with, plus a carrier. He gets his expansion up pretty soon after mine and then proceeds to get the interceptor upgrade, 2-3 ship weapons upgrades, lots of zealots and stalkers and carriers. The problem with going corrupters is that it cripples my ground army and he can somehow have a sizable ground army that I have to deal with. If I get just a few corrupters, the carriers and stalkers can easily kill them. If I get more corrupters, my smaller ground army will get run over by his ground army + the carriers. My corrupters may kill all of the carriers, but then I'll have a bunch of useless anti-air units sitting around while his ground army kills my base. In my last game, I had a bunch of hydras, and was having some success targeting the interceptors, but he was still harassing me and my economy and putting me behind. And if he ever attacks with ground army + carriers at the same time, the interceptors don't have priority. So my hydras focus on the zealots and stalkers and just get annihilated by the +2 or +3 weapons carriers. So basically my question is why does everyone think carriers are underpowered? Maybe by themselves they are, but with the addition of a sizable ground army (which is apparently attainable with just two bases) they're incredibly powerful. P.S. I'd like to upload the replays, but I've never done that before. Could someone explain it to me? Do I upload to some replay site and then link to that site here? If so, what's a good/easy site to do that at? | ||
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blitzkrieger
United States512 Posts
The other problem is carriers move slower, have less armor, and interceptors do 5x2 damage which means armor severely hurts them. The same issues the Mship has actually. Carriers got worse from BW while most other units (except zerglings lol) got better. Well lockdown is gone so maybe they did get a buff. If someone has replays of carriers used by good players please post them. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Good luck with getting this to work more though. I think that you will die to heavy Bio pressure from Terran. | ||
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Mr.Minionman
United States164 Posts
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