EPTI usually wait for at least 4-5 gateway units before I make my robo, The ratio of zealots/stalkers will depend on what the terran has but a good rule is for 5 units you should have 2 stalker 2 zealot 1 sentry
[H] PvT MMM bioball - Page 4
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zealotz55
United States229 Posts
I usually wait for at least 4-5 gateway units before I make my robo, The ratio of zealots/stalkers will depend on what the terran has but a good rule is for 5 units you should have 2 stalker 2 zealot 1 sentry | ||
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
Basically, if the Protoss goes all gates vs my build I feel very good. When they try to expand early I also feel good pushing in to kill it. What I hate is when they rush to the "Tier 3" while still in one base, because once they have 2 templars with storm, or even 1 colossus with the 9 range upgrade.... boy that hurts, ghosts or no ghosts. I am starting to think that if they do that I will not attack their main at all, but instead camp outside their expantion while I expand myself, and force them to come fight in the open field. Even in "Tier 2" if you engage where FF's can cut your army in half, your screwed. Fighting in the open field is key. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
Theres a PvZ mass air build against zerg on these forums, the void ray collossus build. Im thinking a variation on that might not be bad against terran, but youd need a standing army in the meantime whereas static defense works against zerg. The build refers to the hard to deal with late game comp, but it relies heavily on the void ray speed upgrade and forcing your opponents hand by chronoboosting the air weapons from the cybercore so they think you're warpgating. You still apply pressure if you can, but its just buying you time to expand (on second thought a timing push might crush you unless you charged your VRs on your own buildings and used them for defense or something.) | ||
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DevoKe
United States23 Posts
The Terran goes rax into FE and his bunkers completely stopped my push. What did I do wrong? Should I have not pushed and expo'd myself? Should I have rushed Colossi faster when I saw the bio army? I would just like some feedback on this game. Thanks. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/55301-1v1-terran-protoss-steppes-of-war | ||
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SirNeshorn
Norway66 Posts
Your initial BO is something I don't see too often, but it's good vs very fast reapers, I guess. And that could happen on SoW quite often, so I'm not gonna judge that. You choose to go for a 3-gate robo build, but I'm not sure if this was a reaction you had due to some stacked resources or if this was your plan at all since you popped the robo and 2 more gates at the same time. Sadly, I don't think you were aware of the FE terran did, and you did not get an obs out early. Right before the 9th minute mark, a fight breaks out, which heavily favored the terran even though Immortals rape bunkers pretty fast. At this point, I would not attack at all. When you saw the FE, I think it would have been a better decision to pull back, expand yourself and tech up. Eventually you get a robo bay up, but you dearly want to hold your small contain at the terran's front door and end up taking pod shots which even drag an Immortal down with it. Avoid small things like this. Also, keep in mind that where you were positioned was no choke. If the terran had pushed out with a sizeable bio ball at this point, he would have overwhelmed your units very quickly. 13th minute mark: you get your expansion up...but it seems very dark from here on. While his mules were up, the terran had almost double your income, and this has lasted for quite some time. The economic advantage is clearly in his favour. 16th minute mark: a fight ensues. After a very failed attempt to EMP your forces, the standings right before the onslaught is this: 5 zealots, 1 immortal, 14 stalkers, 2 colossi (but range upgrade not done yet) and 4 sentries. Your opponent got 20 marauders, 2 ghosts and no less than 43 marines. 102 supply vs 143. The outcome is quite obvious...you didn't stand a chance. I see 4 biggies that I think can sum up the game. 1) Upgrades. Against a bio ball, you really want those upgrades. An early +1 armor makes wonders against that heavy amount of infantry. You did use GS at least, which shreds off alot of damage. Still, it's not always sufficient. 2) Economic advantage. The main reason why you lost the game. The terran had an income that riddiculed yours. Because of this, his army was, obviously, alot more powerful. Breaking a turtling terran is not easy with just gateway units. OK, you had a couple of immortals, but they don't excel at this either. They serve you better against marauder pushes at your front door at this stage. 3) Low tech. Asside from the immortals, you had very little to no tech at all available while you still were down in economy. At least you had colossi out when he chose to end the game, but it didn't cut the deal for you. Tier 3 units are absolutely essential at this stage of the game. Void Rays would be nice to keep the terran a little longer inside his base, even though it could be quite risky as his marine number was very high. 4) A reason which triggered the main reason to why you lost the game (well, that sounded kinda spicy): scouting. You had a robo bay, yet you didn't produce a single observer the entire game. This is bad news. A terran has a very wide arsenal of what he can throw at you, and I'm quite sure you didn't even know about the ghosts before he was at your front door. You WANT to know what that guy's up to! If there's something I would recommend improving on, it's point number 4. Do some more scouting, especially if you go for a robo like you did. Observers are of good use! | ||
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DevoKe
United States23 Posts
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FoUsTy
France45 Posts
Like we say at this level VR is good...... | ||
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AncienTs
Japan227 Posts
On August 14 2010 00:25 FoUsTy wrote: Replay Xdaunt : 50 apm vs 50 apm. Terran see VR and make one raven...not viking... Like we say at this level VR is good...... hey fousty you know i'm real tired of your bs. the whole point to take away from daunt's replay pack is how to micro against early terran aggression, then transition to void ray to attack the terran main. although the terran usually falls to the void ray push, protoss should follow up the harassment with a well-timed expansion | ||
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bushanks
United States3 Posts
On August 11 2010 07:29 FoUsTy wrote: All terran come on my behind will say "AHHHHH STOP WHINE" omg... I'm pretty sure this is the most hilarious thing ever said on teamliquid. Discuss. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 14 2010 00:25 FoUsTy wrote: Replay Xdaunt : 50 apm vs 50 apm. Terran see VR and make one raven...not viking... Like we say at this level VR is good...... You do realize that White-Ra and lots of other pro-level players often open with void rays against terrans, right? Besides, here's a better point: if I'm able to effectively use void rays against terrans with my "50 APM" at diamond level (I'm like 680 or so right now), then a lot of protoss players should be able to similarly use them effectively without requiring massive APM. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
Proxy 1 gate transition to DT vs rank 4 Diamond: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/55273-1v1-terran-protoss-scrap-station Why does DT work on Terran? Because they burn all their scan capability on MULEs assuming they will have energy if DTs come. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Proxy 1 gate to Robo/Chargelots/Map control vs rank 3 Diamond: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/55271-1v1-terran-protoss-blistering-sands Why do I expand so early? Because the proxy gives me map control 2 minutes into the game. Pressure makes the other player react. You want them to react to you, not act in their own comfortable play style. | ||
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Samizdat
22 Posts
I've scouted with my standard tier 1 ball and see he's going heavy rax/I suspect a MMM ball. Now I'm deciding that I'll try to counter with HT. Q: Should I build a robo (for obs/imm) first or should I sacrifice the scout/short game and throw down the TC first? Edit: If the question were to be amended so that I scout his starport building, is the answer different? (Plat league) | ||
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silencesc
United States464 Posts
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Retgery
Canada1229 Posts
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FoUsTy
France45 Posts
On August 14 2010 03:47 xDaunt wrote: You do realize that White-Ra and lots of other pro-level players often open with void rays against terrans, right? Besides, here's a better point: if I'm able to effectively use void rays against terrans with my "50 APM" at diamond level (I'm like 680 or so right now), then a lot of protoss players should be able to similarly use them effectively without requiring massive APM. Little seriously please. T against you don't got stimpack fast (as T can do now) When one got 2 viking against one VR he don't hit and run, just let them. I train with one top diamond T which taking fast stim...marine marauder stimed crush stalker VR... And more of that you are late/don't charged VR on rok... anyway............................ High level player, before IEM say "The imbalance is big" dimaga, "T is just too much power" artosis... Well speak about high level player... | ||
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silencesc
United States464 Posts
On August 14 2010 00:25 FoUsTy wrote: Replay Xdaunt : 50 apm vs 50 apm. Terran see VR and make one raven...not viking... Like we say at this level VR is good...... Je vois que t'est francais, alors, on doit que je respond en cette langue. APM n'est pas tres important, oui, en les haute divisions, il faut qu'on fasse bien avec le <<Micro>>, et seulment la, on doit avoir APM tres haut. Mais le replay d'xDaunt n'est pas dans une division assez haute qu'on doit avoir les main assez rapide, en cette casse, il faut que tu laisse toute seule les joueurs qui voudrais d'etre plus bien, et c'est pas gentile ce que t'as fait. ^ I haven't spoken French in two years, desolee! | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 14 2010 04:14 silencesc wrote: Does anyone know where I can find a build order for chargelot HT? I've tried it before but end up getting owned by the first big bio ball push because I was saving gas for temps (i.e., no shield, no ff). Should I be constantly getting lot/stalker until the archives starts, then save gas? When should gas unit production stop in order to get enough HT fast enough? I don't think that a strict build order particularly useful beyond timing the building of your twilight council. You're going to have to adjust your gas expenditure based upon what the terran is doing and, specifically, whether he's going to attack you. If you're looking for some kind of guideline, I typically spend gas on 3 stalkers, 3 sentries, charge, and +1 armor before building the templar archives. | ||
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FoUsTy
France45 Posts
APM on fight means a lot ... I explain ni my last post... And mistake too are explain. Correct for you : Je vois que t'es francais, alors je vais répondre dans cette langue. L'APM n'est pas très important, oui, dans les haute divisions, il faut qu'on fasse bien avec le <<Micro>>, et seulement là, on doit avoir un APM très haut. Mais le replay d'xDaunt n'est pas dans une division assez haute pour avoir besoin d'avoir les main assez rapide, dans ce cas, il faut que tu laisses toute seule les joueurs qui voudrais d'etre plus bien ????????????????, et c'est pas gentil ce que t'as fait. | ||
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FoUsTy
France45 Posts
And lol !!!!! 100 energie on nexus at 5:00 (replay time) ...lol...you speak like a pro player and ... | ||
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Samizdat
22 Posts
Can I see yours, Fousty? | ||
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