EPT[G] kcdc's PvT FE - Page 67
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:41 RedusK wrote: Do you mean on the Gateway (I assume you don't mean Warpgate Research)? Also, if you don't Chronoboost your first Gateway, how do you hold early Concussive Shell pushes? Wouldn't you be too light on units? Would you mind posting a replay or two of you using this build with your adjustments? Look for the key phrase? "If you can learn to get away with using all chronoboosts on your nexus," Basically means zerg style. You get greedy. If you can get away with being greedy, you win. Also, you can start chrono-boosting probes AFTER your gateways have used all their units already. I been doing this, but the only thing I lose to is ANY terran that goes banshees. No matter what I lose end-game. When your economy completes due to the quick speed of chrono-boost, you can support even 6 gates and a robo. On February 02 2011 10:40 travis wrote: After facing some sick timing pushes I dunno if I can still do this build. Ghost + mass marine + few marauder + scv timing sickness is real hard to deal with. And by real hard I think it's impossible. I could get collossus, but the problem is that if the terran scans and sees it he can just attack early and I will die. If he pulls SCV's you HAVE to retreat unless you outmacroed him hardcore. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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Minigun
619 Posts
I haven't found a push I can't LEARN to hold yet. @others Use the chrono more on your nexus as you get better at holding off pushes. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:35 Minigun wrote: Okay so I have made a few variations to the build to suit my liking. If you can learn to get away with using all chronoboosts on your nexus, it makes this build so much stronger. The timings are much easier, and it puts you at a HUGE advantage, compared to using them all on the warpgate. Just thought I would throw that out there. Interesting idea. I like to cut probes at 30 to get up to 3 gates. Do you just survive on 1 gate for that much longer? | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
On February 02 2011 08:35 Minigun wrote: Okay so I have made a few variations to the build to suit my liking. If you can learn to get away with using all chronoboosts on your nexus, it makes this build so much stronger. The timings are much easier, and it puts you at a HUGE advantage, compared to using them all on the warpgate. Just thought I would throw that out there. Mini, any reps of this in action? Do you not cut probes then I'm assuming? | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On February 02 2011 14:14 kcdc wrote: Interesting idea. I like to cut probes at 30 to get up to 3 gates. Do you just survive on 1 gate for that much longer? I think the more you practice with it, the more comfortable you will be holding off pushes, if they do come, using more chrono on your nexus. It sets up the mid game with a bunch more minerals, and definitely worth the risk. Although you have to watch for proxies ^^ . | ||
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[Eternal]Phoenix
United States333 Posts
On February 06 2011 03:47 Minigun wrote: I think the more you practice with it, the more comfortable you will be holding off pushes, if they do come, using more chrono on your nexus. It sets up the mid game with a bunch more minerals, and definitely worth the risk. Although you have to watch for proxies ^^ . You cannot use chronos on your nexus safely ever. A proxied 2nd rax for a 2 rax conc push will automatically win if you didn't chrono your gate, or force enough probes off the line and kill enough that it's likely you'll never recover in time for the next push. Now, that's a cheese and the larger maps are the greater the difficulty of performing it. Cross spots shakuras or metal are still 50x better than close spawn LT. On the GSL maps I think it'll usually be a lot easier to deal with, and maybe then you can still live if you chronod probes. Also, just because you CAN hold 1 base allins doesn't mean you necessarily can do it consistently. Every allin requires a varied response, and some can mask themselves nicely behind early pressure - hellion or marine drop, cloak banshee, early 1/2 rax pressure. If you invest in a robo sometimes you'll die just by that investment alone, but scouting without one is near impossible past that you know they ARE allining (though if they make a CC in base and float over a little later they might be able to mask an expo as an allin too!) I still think PvT is just a gigantic guessing game. There's too many options and too many counters. Conc shell and the lack of high ground miss chance means that if you start losing you're really screwed, there's no way to micro a victory with a smaller army without pulling probes. | ||
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Gradius
United States112 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/136653-1v1-terran-protoss-delta-quadrant | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On February 02 2011 11:13 Minigun wrote: Travis, the more you do it the better you will be at holding these pushes. I haven't found a push I can't LEARN to hold yet. @others Use the chrono more on your nexus as you get better at holding off pushes. As an ex-BW player I learned to make probes non-stop until I feel I have a good amount. As I played the game more and more I could get a feel for what I can get away with, probe wise, and when I needed to stop and mass up units to stay alive. This carried over to SC2 and the first thing I think of when I play a style that beats me is not "ok, I'll stop making probes and then make units instead" but rather "How do I hold this off while without hindering my economy". Actually I don't even think like that anymore, I just assume it. There are few builds that I will cut probes to fight off. | ||
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Hane
France210 Posts
I still do this build that works great. But i still have some big problems vs 1base/late expo play like : - 2rax medivacs, and a fake push at my nat' while 2medivac are droping in my main. - some heavy mech play (like Sojw). any tips ? | ||
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Garth
United States353 Posts
On February 06 2011 03:47 Minigun wrote: I think the more you practice with it, the more comfortable you will be holding off pushes, if they do come, using more chrono on your nexus. It sets up the mid game with a bunch more minerals, and definitely worth the risk. Although you have to watch for proxies ^^ . Do you have replays of this that I can watch or of any semipro/pro replays of 1 gate FE? I seem to be dying to a lot of random 2 base timing pushes and need some direction in my play. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
On August 10 2010 21:22 kcdc wrote: I open with a 13 gate and scout after my gateway. Do you do this on 4 player maps (LT/meta?) or do you opt for an earlier pylon scout? On August 10 2010 21:22 kcdc wrote: If T is doing something weird (hasn't taken gas, has stopped SCV production), respond accordingly. What's your response here? I typically don't build my core, don't mine from my assimilator, send a second probe to start looking all over the map for proxy rax as well as scout the edges of his main and behind his natural minerals for a 2nd rax with my initial scout while dropping a nexus. I feel that against a no gas rax FE a typical zealot stalker expand is just behind. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
If I don't see gas or suspect a proxy, I don't over-react. It's not a very strong cheese. I just get 3 quick gates, poke around with my stalker for information and to kite marines heading toward my base, and make sure I have plenty of zealots to clean up SCVs if he all-ins. Terran cheese isn't very scary compared to proxy gates, cannon rushes, 6 pool, and roach+speedling rushes. | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
On February 25 2011 06:56 kcdc wrote: I scout after gateway on all maps. Terrans don't cheese much because their cheese is mostly bad. If they know you like to 1 gate FE, I suppose they might proxy a second barracks, but they don't do that blindly often because it's bad against most P builds. If I don't see gas or suspect a proxy, I don't over-react. It's not a very strong cheese. I just get 3 quick gates, poke around with my stalker for information and to kite marines heading toward my base, and make sure I have plenty of zealots to clean up SCVs if he all-ins. Terran cheese isn't very scary compared to proxy gates, cannon rushes, 6 pool, and roach+speedling rushes. The potential problem with scout after gateway on 4 player maps is that if you scout them in the last position they are going to have a marine out before you get up the ramp. The reason I mentioned scouting for 2rax is that 2rax bunker rush is the counter to to the nexus before core response. Basically these all comes down to the question of: Are you behind if terran goes for rax FE vs your zealot stalker FE? | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 25 2011 07:10 Jaeger wrote: The potential problem with scout after gateway on 4 player maps is that if you scout them in the last position they are going to have a marine out before you get up the ramp. The reason I mentioned scouting for 2rax is that 2rax bunker rush is the counter to to the nexus before core response. Basically these all comes down to the question of: Are you behind if terran goes for rax FE vs your zealot stalker FE? I usually do damage to a no gas 1-rax FE. Often, the zealot-stalker poke shows up before they finish a bunker at their front. In this case, you can contain them in their main for a while, or if they built the CC in their nat, you can kill it. If they have the bunker up, just chrono the crap out of your nexus. You'll have the military advantage for quite a while. This also presents you with an opportunity to do a quick 5 gate after your expo and kill him. It's semi-all-in because you don't have tech up, but it's very effective. Get sentries first for energy, then zealots to bust the bunkers and thin the MM, and then reinforce with stalkers to clean up. And yes, on 4P maps, he'll have a marine out if he's in the last positioin you scout. You can scout backwards if this bothers you. Since he'll likely scout forwards, if he's in close positions, you can identify his location from the timing that his scout hits your base. This can help to make sure you don't scout his position last. If you do scout him last tho, you can sprint your probe past his marine. I think it might be possible for him to kill the probe if he microes his marine really well, but usually, you'll get it in. Otherwise, you'll just have to hope he's playing standard and keep a probe outside his base to see what he's doing. 95% of the time, it works out fine. | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
Sry if this has been already mentioned. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
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