EPT[G] kcdc's PvT FE - Page 68
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Brandus
148 Posts
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shenzu88
48 Posts
By the time you throw down your nexus and gateways you will only have one zealot and two stalkers. I usually make 5 gates in total. By the time your nexus is complete you will almost have two bases near optimal saturation (2 per patch). I used to make only 3 gates in total with a robo, which I felt is "sometimes" too weak to hold off a good push, but going 5 gates can allow you to make so many units. I feel the emphasize is on stalkers with one or two zealots just to meat the first few volleys. If the terran waits for his timing push you will have around 8-10 stalkers and two zealots. I will post some replays with my practice partner and I. This build transitions very nicely into a 6 gate timing attack or double forge upgrade build. | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
I would also like to see some high masters replays of it to see where I can improve. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On February 25 2011 23:57 Logros wrote: This is by far my favorite PvT build. It's strong against pretty much everything the Terran can do, because if you scout properly after your FE you can go to any tech to react on their unit composition/build and have a great economy to back it up. I would also like to see some high masters replays of it to see where I can improve. How do you deal with Banshee raven all-ins? Or Marine/Tank +/- Raven? :X | ||
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spacenegroes
United States80 Posts
On February 26 2011 07:51 Dommk wrote: How do you deal with Banshee raven all-ins? Or Marine/Tank +/- Raven? :X Stargate and pump phoenixes. Rest into zealots and sentries, a few stalkers for utility mainly. The real problem with 2 port is scouting it. That's where the early poke helps gather some information on whether he's spending gas on marauders or not. If not, throw down a robo and get obs out to scout his base. Stargate should come out in time when you scout the tech lab on the port(s). | ||
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nWong
Canada145 Posts
Only seems to fall against a thor all-in. Then again, what doesn't?  | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On February 26 2011 07:51 Dommk wrote: How do you deal with Banshee raven all-ins? Or Marine/Tank +/- Raven? :X There's a couple of options there. Stargate as mentioned, or just crank out as much units as possible from 5+ gates. You could also make a forge and throw up a few cannons because if you hold the rush you've pretty much won. The hardest part is scouting it in time though. | ||
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shenzu88
48 Posts
Like I promised I will be attaching three replays of KCDC's build with Minigun's suggestions. Minigun's suggestions are to use all the chronoboost on the nexus to get a macro lead. I plant down 4 more gates to hold any early game pressure. The three replays don't show that early game pressure really but just shows the viability of this build against all openings. I will always use my first zealot and stalker to poke and see what's going on. TIP: Close spawn on a map like Meta with this build is weak to a SCV all in. PS. I'm around 32-3300 Masters, not near Minigun's level & I stopped laddering. Enjoy. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-192188.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-192190.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-192191.jpg) | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 27 2011 01:47 shenzu88 wrote: Hi Guys, Like I promised I will be attaching three replays of KCDC's build with Minigun's suggestions. Minigun's suggestions are to use all the chronoboost on the nexus to get a macro lead. I plant down 4 more gates to hold any early game pressure. The three replays don't show that early game pressure really but just shows the viability of this build against all openings. I will always use my first zealot and stalker to poke and see what's going on. TIP: Close spawn on a map like Meta with this build is weak to a SCV all in. PS. I'm around 32-3300 Masters, not near Minigun's level & I stopped laddering. Enjoy. Yeah, I been using more gates instead of the regular 2+robo and it's VERY successful. It allows you to macro really well: I mass zealots/sentries and the t can't do much. This allows me to transition into doubleforge +twilight council, expand, and ultimately **templar tech*. The only way terran can beat this imo, is macroing off 6 raxes after FE or multiple drops. Ghosts work, but it drains your gas which makes your army smaller, allowing zealots to be "good". + Show Spoiler + On February 27 2011 02:38 kcdc wrote: Yeah, in my experience, a 1-rax or 2-rax FE to 5+ rax MM all-in just kills any transition that doesn't involve collosi. Yeah, I know that. That's why I stated the 6 rax part. You helped me on that part. ^_^ I only go the twilight tech if I see medivacs, ghosts (charge kills mmg), tanks, or basically anything but mass rax. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 27 2011 02:07 iChau wrote: Yeah, I been using more gates instead of the regular 2+robo and it's VERY successful. It allows you to macro really well: I mass zealots/sentries and the t can't do much. This allows me to transition into doubleforge +twilight council, expand, and ultimately twilight tech. The only way terran can beat this imo, is macroing off 6 raxes after FE or multiple drops. Ghosts work, but it drains your gas which makes your army smaller, allowing zealots to be "good". Yeah, in my experience, a 1-rax or 2-rax FE to 5+ rax MM all-in just kills any transition that doesn't involve collosi. | ||
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jmols
New Zealand41 Posts
I'm just starting to actually read these forums and post, is it a weird request to ask for some reps of this build losing? A lot of the reps I've watched have had some pretty bad errors by T and some inconsistency by P. If anyone has some reps where they feel they played the build to a high level but still lost could they post em up? interested to play around with different transitions. thanks in advance. Great build also, love playing FE. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 28 2011 10:26 jmols wrote: Hey guys I'm just starting to actually read these forums and post, is it a weird request to ask for some reps of this build losing? A lot of the reps I've watched have had some pretty bad errors by T and some inconsistency by P. If anyone has some reps where they feel they played the build to a high level but still lost could they post em up? interested to play around with different transitions. thanks in advance. Great build also, love playing FE. You would see replays of raven scv all-in pushes. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
That said, we don't seem to see 1gate core -> expand in high level GSL games, which is odd, to me. I've been having a good amount of success in PvTs using this build and I can definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a "standard" PvT build. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
On February 25 2011 23:42 shenzu88 wrote: Ever since reading about Minigun's post about chronoboosting only probes from early game into 30-34 food I've been retrying this build. By the time you throw down your nexus and gateways you will only have one zealot and two stalkers. I usually make 5 gates in total. By the time your nexus is complete you will almost have two bases near optimal saturation (2 per patch). I used to make only 3 gates in total with a robo, which I felt is "sometimes" too weak to hold off a good push, but going 5 gates can allow you to make so many units. I feel the emphasize is on stalkers with one or two zealots just to meat the first few volleys. If the terran waits for his timing push you will have around 8-10 stalkers and two zealots. I will post some replays with my practice partner and I. This build transitions very nicely into a 6 gate timing attack or double forge upgrade build. Zealot/Stalker definitely seems to be the most efficient unit composition against marine/marauder when you have an equal or greater army size (which you will if you FE). Zealot/Sentry or Stalker/Sentry is good for evening out fights where you don't have the same army size, to allow FFs to divide up their army, but it seems like trading your zealots for their army while preserving your stalkers is the best way to go. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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Fushin
France193 Posts
Did you had extra gateways before expanding ? | ||
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shenzu88
48 Posts
On March 08 2011 19:28 Fushin wrote: I can't watch the replays of Minigun's variation, but if i really love the idea, i have a hard time getting how you can defend early game if you don't cb your gateway or your warpgate. Did you had extra gateways before expanding ? You cut probes at around 29 to 31 food and lay down your gateways. The terran will usually prode with a marauder and couple marines with a few scvs, they will seethe expo. The important thing is that they won't have stim at this time and you will have one zealot and two stalkers. Go up your ramp and let him damage the warping in nexus. Warpgate will be soon complete and you'll be able to warp in a round of units that will force him to retreat. This is usually the case. I feel zealot + stalker is the best composition early game with more stalkers, you want to focus the marauders as much as possible, cleaning up the marines is easy afterwards. | ||
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gejfsyd
Poland156 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On March 08 2011 17:22 link0 wrote: Great build. I just lost to it today. It's so hard to out produce a toss that is doing this even when I'm taking huge risks in playing an un-safe FE build. Thanks for the compliment. Fun game yesterday. That was only the second time I've tried that phoenix transition against mech, but it seems so much better than the blink/charge/immortal composition I'd been using. I'm gonna be working on phoenixes as my standard response to tank hellion. If nothing else, they help a TON against blue flame hellion harass--which is the #1 thing I lose to in PvT. I've also read that phoenixes can lift an immortal to save it from a thor's strike cannon which seems absolutely huge. Anyone have a lot of experience with phoenixes vs mech? | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
I don't have the immortal trick down yet though. | ||
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