If I scout the 2 Stalker opening, It's easily beatable with a 3 rax MM opening. P have to invest to many resources into Void Rays and I can have around 8 Rauders and 10 Marines before you can get a void ray out.

a 1/1/1 would be the biggest hard counter imo.

Fruscainte

4596 Posts

August 31 2010 00:30 GMT

#162

On August 31 2010 09:19 Homerclese wrote:
If I scout the 2 Stalker opening, It's easily beatable with a 3 rax MM opening. P have to invest to many resources into Void Rays and I can have around 8 Rauders and 10 Marines before you can get a void ray out.

a 1/1/1 would be the biggest hard counter imo.

"I can do X to counter your Y!"

Of course there will be counters, there is no unbeatable strat. But this strat is still a fantastic opening.

Gnial

Canada907 Posts

August 31 2010 00:40 GMT

#163

Post a replay if you can. I am certain that a void ray can come out before you have that many units, but it would still be useful to see exactly what your protoss opponent did to allow your push to work so well. Heck, if you have a great counter to this build, I'd love to post it in the OP in the replays section.

However, I have had conflicting experiences with your own against the 1-1-1 and 3-rax builds. I think you may just be playing opponents that have made big mistakes, or maybe you just aren't giving your own micro enough credit. My experience against MM 3-rax pushes is it comes down largely to a micro/terrain/composition battle - hopefully with the P having an advantage due to map control, positioning, harassing options, etc.

Homerclese

Australia30 Posts

August 31 2010 00:57 GMT

#164

It deffinetly is a great strat, no question. Next time I come up against it I'll save the replay and post it.

It was only in Oceania Platinum, so I guess It could have been done better. I've only seen it 2-3 times and all of those times it must have been executed poorly, because the harrassing stalkers couldn't take the 2 maurauders and 2 marines I have out, and I push and either supply block him or take one of his gateways. It's GG after that. *EDIT* It wouldn't have been your exact build either. I can't really remember, but he didn't get to my base until around 5 mins, maybe a bit over, and got blink very early. was on scrap station as well so that didn't help.

Maybe 8 Rauders is a bit much. But Terran would have the upper hand when Protoss is going for Rays if Terran does a 3 rax, 2 tech 1 reactor opening. You'd be suprised how easy it is to Micro rauders with CS.

But as I said, Great strat, reading it has me worried as Terran that's for sure.

Asdkmoga

United States496 Posts

August 31 2010 01:03 GMT

#165

gonna have to try it out, sounds kinda similiar to what i do in PvT, with the whole constant pressure thing, except with being in the lower leagues, they cant handle it and i win before i can transition into anything else, but yeah :D.

nice write up. ty.

habermas

United Kingdom304 Posts

August 31 2010 05:41 GMT

#166

Pretty good strategy. I've tried it and I seem to be loosing less terribly now :p
One of my opponents after scouting this placed a bunker on the ramp, a few towers and went for two fast factories and armory. Got about 6 tanks, 2 thors and some marines, was pretty fast gg.

iThaos

Australia3 Posts

September 07 2010 11:06 GMT

#167

I dedicate my first post (joined in may this year) to thanking you for this build. Since I used it, I haven't lost to a single terran yet. The biggest problem I've had was probably forgetting to build the 2nd pylon or building it too late.

Lordcamel

17 Posts

September 07 2010 15:24 GMT

#168

Thanks a lot , this build helped me alot against terran !

Now that I hit the top 5 plat it starts to get countered .. or maybe it doesn't work that good on big maps but still 75% Wins against T !

Omegaspecter

United States2 Posts

September 07 2010 22:43 GMT

#169

Just tired this. Plat level T didn't even scout but.... I walked up his ramp with a probe and both stalkers, killed a waiting reaper started on his tech lab, killed 2 marines, another 2 reapers, tech lab, a supply D, and he quit. I never even left his ramp.

slam

United States923 Posts

September 07 2010 23:07 GMT

#170

I do a build very similar to this and one thing that REALLY helps out and makes this sooooooo powerful and imo is very important is to bring a probe along with your void ray when it pops out so that you can build a pylon near the bottom of the terrans ramp. With said pylon you can charge up your voidray on your pylon (even as the pylon is building) so that it goes into battle with a full charge right away and just destroys terran. And obviously the pylon will allow you to get instant reinforcements as well. And don't worry about charging up your voidray and damaging your pylon... it'll just recharge its shields lol.

EDIT: And another thing that is great about this build is that it allows for a very easy transition into phoenix which can do wonders picking off ghosts, scouting, and lifting up tanks during large engagements.

Jayrod

1820 Posts

September 07 2010 23:13 GMT

#171

How many marines can a fully charged VR take out?

slam

United States923 Posts

September 07 2010 23:22 GMT

#172

I am not sure... i want to say around 5, but...

another very important thing:
Micro your voidray!!!!
Voidrays will keep their charge for about 3 or 4 seconds so do not be afraid to disengage. If he chases your voidray with his marines then your stalkers will be getting a ton of free shots while he is moving and if he does not chase then the marines will target the stalkers (which have 1 armor so marines will be doing significantly less damage) in which case immediately start attacking with your voidray again.

Don't be afraid to micro stalkers either when they are damaged (this means pulling them back so fire is directed at other/more healthy stalkers then instantly attacking again with said stalker). With micro you can win the game with the first push by a landslide a lot of the time.

EDIT: and getting an early sentry while it does delay the voidray slightly will allow you to put up guardian shield which helps soooo much against marines. Marines do six damage, and if they are attacking stalkers then its down to 5 damage, and if you have guardian shield up its down to 3 damage! Thats half of what they normally do.

And also if you mis-micro your voidray and it dies the terran may get eager to do a counter push and with you sentry you can cast forcefield on his ramp as he goes down to split off a few units to pick off with your remaining stalkers.

dusters

United States57 Posts

September 08 2010 00:25 GMT

#173

I have been using this strategy with some really good success. I like to hide my stargate somewhere on the map near my opponents base, get out 2 stalkers to harass, then a void ray as quickly as possible. As I'm prodding with my stalkers I sent my Void Ray to the back of my opponents base and start attacking SCV's. It makes him choose whether to save his SCV's or his front wall. Oftentime my opponent doesn't even have enough marines to kill my VR and the game ends right there.

Some of the weaknesses are if you notice the Terran player is going Banshee's or a lot of early marines. When that happens you need to adapt and possibly tech switch really quick.

pugowar

United States142 Posts

September 08 2010 13:29 GMT

#174

I jsut started using this strategy after getting schooled by marauders so hard it was pissing me off. While some games go better then others (mostly due to my macro skills not being the best) I would liek to share one game where it went very well. It was scrap station, and by the time my probe finally got over to scout he only had his barracks finished and was working on his factory. When I arrived, there was only one marine, he had to pull his SCVS of line to push my stalkers back (he surrounded and killed one of them) then my other two arrived to kill his marauder. He finished his airport just as my voidray arrived, he tried to move it and bring up his workers to repair it and my four stalkers started bombarding his workers. Anyways he was "favored" against me (I am a silver player but ranked 3rd in my division) and I weas able to beat him because of this build so give it a try!

A second game the dude did not make anything but marines so I tech switched and instead of making a starport made colossi. Worked liek a dream but it is the early pressure that really get the terrans. And terran players are so smug they dont even try to wall off because they think they will own me b/c I am a protoss. I wish i could see the look on their face when the two stalkers first arrive!

So thanks for the build!

FreeZEternal

Korea (South)3396 Posts

September 08 2010 13:43 GMT

#175

Instead of arguing X counters Y why don't you guys try it in a game? -.-;;;

puppybash

United Kingdom3 Posts

September 08 2010 20:59 GMT

#176

Gnial thanks for your post,it's really helped my game.

I know I've loads of areas I need to improve on but this one I need some guidance:

What factors do you consider when deciding when to transition from vr stalker to the next tech/expand? How do you ensure you will not get demolished by a counter while you are building buildings and not units?

Kwaa

Sweden91 Posts

September 08 2010 22:20 GMT

#177

I love it. But I'm alittle conserned with it, simply because I get the feeling that almost every game I play, I get matched vs someone doing the 3 rax rauder push.

iThaos

Australia3 Posts

September 11 2010 03:32 GMT

#178

Through my experience with this build, you probably get a void ray out ASAP...

edit: On Kulas Ravine. I think I won 1/3 PvT on that map.

whateversclever

United States197 Posts

September 11 2010 03:59 GMT

#179

On September 08 2010 08:13 Jayrod wrote:
How many marines can a fully charged VR take out?

It's less how many it can take out, it's more how many are needed to keep it out. Any units kept in base to defend against Void Rays are functionally dead, since they can't do anything else.

The only unit that shoots back that you'd really want to go after in my opinion are Missile Turrets. If you micro right and split the damage on to the shields (just pull back so it targets the other one), 2 Void Rays can take down a Missile Turret with 0 damage to hull. Once full charged, 2 Void Rays can can take out Missile Turrets without taking any hull damage.

DarQraven

Netherlands553 Posts

September 15 2010 16:29 GMT

#180

edit: nvm. Thought it over and you're pretty much only at 14 food (1 pylon, 1 gateway, 1 assimilator) once you scout there's no wall. Going from that into 4-gate or 2gate is effortless.

Still, something to consider. If there's no wall, this strat fails hard.