EPTalso i cant believe the overseers didnt get a replacement spell, even terrible frenzy is better than nothing
Infest me (Infested Terran is BACK!) - Page 3
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ZergEra
United States2 Posts
also i cant believe the overseers didnt get a replacement spell, even terrible frenzy is better than nothing | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
archerofaiur, TLO mentions a ZvT build where zerg goes zergling > infestor > ultralisk designed to counter mech. NP can be used on thors, and occasionaly tanks, while ultra-ling keeps pressure(suicide runs) on them so that you can economy/macro advantage. Personally, I'm not a fan of it. Problem with using infested terrans for worker harass/kills are the IT's eggs. Even with FG if you build the eggs (ITs) first, the opponent will have a moment of time to run his workers away before you can FG them. If you FG first, the FG will wear off (allowing workers to escape) before the eggs hatch (I THINK, unsure about this). A few banelings dropped into a mineral line is instant, guaranteed worker kills. I think it's no contest between baneling and any other zerg unit for killing workers. | ||
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
FclickFclickFclick or HoldFclickclickclick will both achieve the same thing. | ||
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Williowa
129 Posts
And I don't mean bothered like upset, bothered like, that's funny. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On July 09 2010 06:30 Xapti wrote: nihlon, I'm referring only to infested terran use. Infestor is indeed useful for FG, and perhaps NP (debatable). archerofaiur, TLO mentions a ZvT build where zerg goes zergling > infestor > ultralisk designed to counter mech. NP can be used on thors, and occasionaly tanks, while ultra-ling keeps pressure(suicide runs) on them so that you can economy/macro advantage. Personally, I'm not a fan of it. Problem with using infested terrans for worker harass/kills are the IT's eggs. Even with FG if you build the eggs (ITs) first, the opponent will have a moment of time to run his workers away before you can FG them. If you FG first, the FG will wear off (allowing workers to escape) before the eggs hatch (I THINK, unsure about this). A few banelings dropped into a mineral line is instant, guaranteed worker kills. I think it's no contest between baneling and any other zerg unit for killing workers. I still don't understand your point. You can't discuss the usefulness of the IT's if you don't take into consideration the infestors complete abilities in relation to it. (or as a comparison with zerglings as you did) Very few players will make infestors solely for it's. And as for harass, you would assume that the ability to cast IT's while burrowed will make it easier to harass since he might not see it coming and move his workers in time. And with fungal you could potentially do a lot of damage. | ||
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
back on topic... infested terren serve a role like everything else, now we just need to figure out it's role(s) | ||
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MiniTsunami
United States274 Posts
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
First off, I'll state that I play random exclusively in the SC2 Beta. That being said, can someone with more game "know-how" or experience please explain to me the possible reasoning for reducing Neural Parasite to 12 seconds? Is it: a) an attempt balance Infestors since they now have the Infested Terran ability? b) an attempt to balance an overpowered spell? c) an attempt to stop Infestors from stealing units and keeping them in strong defensive positions? d) some alternative I'm not thinking of? [please explain] Because I really don't get it. Infestors die remarkably easily, are put in danger with the range of NP (i.e. Siege Tanks), and are shut down for the duration of NPs use (they can't move and the NP target can't go very far). I suppose the argument could be made that most battles don't last 12 seconds but I've seen some pretty drawn out fights that last at least that long, and some much longer. I personally believe this is a really huge nerf on an ability that keeps a unit previlously perceived as lackluster, useful. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
On July 09 2010 06:30 Xapti wrote: A few banelings dropped into a mineral line is instant, guaranteed worker kills. I think it's no contest between baneling and any other zerg unit for killing workers. The adventage infested terrans have is that you're not losing any money. It all depends on what you're doing. If you've got infestors sitting around at full energy, there isn't really any reason not to try some IT harass. As for the eggs, a player might get lucky and see them, or notice them on the minimap, but the best thing about them is that they won't attack until they're hatched, so there won't be any notification of them until it's too late if they don't see them before that. And the hatch time really isn't that long. If the workers do run away, you can always try sniping out the hatchery/CC/Nexus. And if you fail, you can now get your infestors out of there with no real losses, unless they have detection. | ||
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Anxiety
United States650 Posts
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RMmanlots
United States95 Posts
On July 09 2010 11:15 Mjolnir wrote: First off, I'll state that I play random exclusively in the SC2 Beta. That being said, can someone with more game "know-how" or experience please explain to me the possible reasoning for reducing Neural Parasite to 12 seconds? Is it: a) an attempt balance Infestors since they now have the Infested Terran ability? b) an attempt to balance an overpowered spell? c) an attempt to stop Infestors from stealing units and keeping them in strong defensive positions? d) some alternative I'm not thinking of? [please explain] Because I really don't get it. Infestors die remarkably easily, are put in danger with the range of NP (i.e. Siege Tanks), and are shut down for the duration of NPs use (they can't move and the NP target can't go very far). I suppose the argument could be made that most battles don't last 12 seconds but I've seen some pretty drawn out fights that last at least that long, and some much longer. I personally believe this is a really huge nerf on an ability that keeps a unit previlously perceived as lackluster, useful. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this. I personally never used NP myself for the reasons you described. It costs 100 energy, make the infester completely useless, require an upgrade, etc... Lets not forget the most significant of all, NP puts a gigantic KILL ME sign on the infesters head. Remember possession from WC 3? A Banshee would sacrifice herself to mind control an enemy unit. Banshee - Two food unit. Possession permanent. Lost the banshee, gained full 100% control of unit. Could move all over the map. Balanced because possession took 1 second to cast, and banshee was vulnerable to ranged damage while casting. Infester - Three food unit. Possession lasts 12 seconds. Lost use of the infester, gained control of the unit within a limited range. Could be canceled by killing infester or walking out of range. Balanced because it is shitty. In any event, blizzard is attempting to balance neural parasite by lowering the usefulness of the spell, rather than giving it a critical weakness. The real slap in the face is that the spell was already fairly balanced (maybe even underpowered) due to death of the infester canceling the spell. But, this won't effect my play, because I never used NP. | ||
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Lomilar
United States130 Posts
On July 09 2010 11:43 AnxietE wrote: Annother thing i thought about IT's, you can use them like zealot bombs while burrowed. Simply take your infestor, burrow it, move into range of the tank, and send an IT at the tank. Im not sure, but you may have to use 2 though. YES YES YES! This is about as hard counter to sieged tanks as you can get. Toss a marine handgrenade right at the tank and watch his buddies blow him up. I haven't been able to use it yet, but I am excited. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On July 09 2010 11:43 AnxietE wrote: Annother thing i thought about IT's, you can use them like zealot bombs while burrowed. Simply take your infestor, burrow it, move into range of the tank, and send an IT at the tank. Im not sure, but you may have to use 2 though. This is certainly possible, seen here in the editor: | ||
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
But for what it's worth my experience with it so far is surprisingly awesome. I think most people totally ignore the whole ability because "it sucks compared to FG" and then also totally ignore it when they are in a battle, it's like FFFFFFF and when no infestor has the mana for any more fungal growths people just ignore the unit. I'v tried to use it as often as possible just because I think it's fun, but even during big battles it has been really helpful to just use the "useless" energy you got left after fungal growthing on infested terrans, even if they die before they hatch they've soaked some damage that would otherwise be on your other units and if they survive they do decent damage. I have also sniped like 3x cc/hatch/nex with it, I admit that wasn't against the best players but it really doesn't take long for 24 infested terrans to snipe it and there's often a good chance to make it out of there alive so I really think it got potential as harassment as well. As I said though, noone has played enough yet so I got no idea how viable it really is in a really good game situation but people shouldn't be so quick to call it useless piece of shit unit. | ||
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
On July 09 2010 11:15 Mjolnir wrote: First off, I'll state that I play random exclusively in the SC2 Beta. That being said, can someone with more game "know-how" or experience please explain to me the possible reasoning for reducing Neural Parasite to 12 seconds? Is it: a) an attempt balance Infestors since they now have the Infested Terran ability? b) an attempt to balance an overpowered spell? c) an attempt to stop Infestors from stealing units and keeping them in strong defensive positions? d) some alternative I'm not thinking of? [please explain] Because I really don't get it. Infestors die remarkably easily, are put in danger with the range of NP (i.e. Siege Tanks), and are shut down for the duration of NPs use (they can't move and the NP target can't go very far). I suppose the argument could be made that most battles don't last 12 seconds but I've seen some pretty drawn out fights that last at least that long, and some much longer. I personally believe this is a really huge nerf on an ability that keeps a unit previlously perceived as lackluster, useful. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this. probably reason b. i disagree with the nerf, i think proper np usage rewards skill and crisp execution. but i guess zerg probably needed a nerf after they got buffed a ton | ||
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RoKetha
United States211 Posts
I still disagree with the change as the first situation is not so bad when you remember that Infestors can't move during NP and die when the wind blows, and the second situation simply encourages cheaper, mobile support units to snipe controlling Infestors. Just a funny note: When "egg-bombing" tanks as in that video, it is indeed most useful to use 1-2 eggs at once, because eggs actually have 100 HP and 2 armor for two or rarely three tank shots, while infesties themselves only have 50 HP and 0 (+1) armor. Thus, if you use a bunch of eggs quickly, they take more splash and non-tank damage, and also hatch to take fewer tank shots. Yes, the eggs are actually better than their contents while the tanks are alive. | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
http://www.xfire.com/video/303c59/ | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
2. The difference between casting an egg burrowed and quickly unburrowing, casting, and burrowing again is negligible for something like worker harass. The useful thing for casting while burrowed is vs the siege tank. 3. Vs siege tanks, zerg has a higher chance of casting eggs beside them now that infestors can stay burrowed. Nonetheless, infestors not only cost more than siege tanks, but require a fair bit of energy to cast enough eggs - both time and money not being on one's side - It's like broodling in BW. This strategy won't even work at all if they spot the moving infestors and scan, or do safe pushes with missile turrets, or wait for a raven. Also, in the video example, the biggest problem one might notice, is that the zerg still looses, even when they used so many infested terrans on the tanks. In the second part where the eggs are thrown 1 at a time, as soon as the first egg is thrown, the terran would scan, and destroy the infestors. It's much more viable to attempt a NP (as weak as it is right now) than IT bombing. Zealot bombing is different for 2 reasons: 1) it doesn't use gasy units that are slow and can die when found 2) tanks don't overshoot like they did in brood war. You'd have to drop MULTIPLE zealot on EACH tank no matter how many tanks they had. Oh, another thing is that zealots had a buttload more health - Infested terrans will die to 1 tank shot. eggs do have more health (100), but they will only be targetted if there are no other hostile units around. If that was the case then just 1 scan will reveal the infestors, making a problem for the zerg. | ||
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RMmanlots
United States95 Posts
Go to the unit tester. Create the following situation: Zerg (2625 minerals, 1125 gas, 60 supply) 15 Roaches 30 zerglings 10 banelings 5 infesters (full energy) neural parasite, zergling/baneling speed, burrow Protoss (4750 minerals, 1300 gas, 82 supply) 15 zealots 20 stalkers 3 immortals Zealot Charge 1) Try to win microing the zerg army WITHOUT using infested terran. If you can find a way to win, I'll be shocked. 2) Try to win microing the zerg army using all energy on infested terrans. If you can find a way to lose, I'll be shocked. Before too many people get their panties in a bunch saying "d00d, the other side isn't microing ROFL", recall how hard it is to micro while bing fungal growthed (that, and note the massive resource difference). Edit: Remember, when casting infested terrans, clicking speed is everything. | ||
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