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[D] PvP 4 Warpgate Proxy Pylon Cheese Overpowered? - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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phamou
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada193 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 05:39:15
May 29 2010 05:38 GMT
#121
Well it only works for now because the game is still new. I guess this works for "standard opening" which is 1 gate 1 cyber, but then again, what if because of this the new "standard" becomes getting 2 gates first? I can only assume this "4 gate in ennemy base" will easily be countered now that everyone is aware of it.

how about if you scout it right at beginning you start attacking ennemy/harrass? I watched a few replays, and when everyone scouted Tozar, none decided to attack or do anything. You can send your first zealot and first stalker to tozar's base, and even a probe, giving you advantage right there (tozar will have to proxy 2 units in his own base, therefore can only proxy 2 in your own base. Then you do the same as him put pylons and warp right in his base. this then becomes base trade, but you have advantage because you attacked first.
ScythedBlade
Profile Joined May 2010
308 Posts
May 29 2010 06:22 GMT
#122
I thought cannons fixed stuff =X. But no one likes to use cannons ...
HoroBoro
Profile Joined April 2010
United States91 Posts
May 29 2010 06:27 GMT
#123
On May 29 2010 15:22 ScythedBlade wrote:
I thought cannons fixed stuff =X. But no one likes to use cannons ...


And they still got nerfed...poor cannons...

On topic - cannons will not help against this. Units can move and attack places where there aren't any cannons. Cannons cannot move and attack places where there aren't any units D:
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 06:43:29
May 29 2010 06:36 GMT
#124
i dont understand how this is a problem


1) you wall off your ramp

2) you kill all pylons in your base before his warp gate finishes

3) he is limited to attacking only your choke and warping in units only near your choke if he build a pylon close to your choke and wants to warp units right above your ramp...

4) if he warps units right above your choke, kill them while they warp in?





damn ok ive watched the replay. you build a bunch of pylons before your enemys stalker can finish


it does seem very very powerful. damn. i dunno much you can do to battle this strategy

i bet fast 2gate zealot rush would probably get lots in your base attacking you before the strategy could pay off

but who wants to do lame 2gate rushes every game...
Tozar
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States245 Posts
May 29 2010 09:26 GMT
#125
On May 29 2010 14:37 Antiochus wrote:
Funny how this build you learned a korean was only beaten by a guy who claims to play on the asia server. He was probably the only person you faced who had acctual practice vs this build.

Also a question about that templar guy you played 3 times were those all consecutive or were there breaks imbetween where you played other people? Just asking because if it was 3 times in a row thats just hilarious.


The poor guy indeed played me 3 times in a row - while I was streaming. I kinda felt bad for him.
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
May 29 2010 09:55 GMT
#126
That strategy is quite powerfull lol.
There can't be really any imbalance since it's a mirror match and thus you should be able to do the same thing to the opponent.

But U can see the strong part of the strategy is of course the instant warp ins at their mineral lines which forces opponents to defend their naturals while their probes are not mining at all or gets destroyed. Which eventually was the cause of everyone losing (except 1) because of their resources being depleted.
Have not seen the game in which u lost but LUCKILY I do not play on US servers vs you Tozar :D
But reading the comments the only counterpush would be if you scouted the Protoss is building 4 warpgates you have to push before either a) his Pylons finishes in his main or b) while the warpgate is researching.
This isn't a lot of time from my perspective and makes it so powerfull.
Because you have to 2gate zealot rush him if you want to make sure he can't do this strategy on you.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
SickDownlink
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 10:20:29
May 29 2010 10:19 GMT
#127
I watched a replay and was like "wow i need to try this". i agree, i literally just did this build and i messed up a bit and still didn't even need to micro very much. i just won. i am rank 7 in my platinum league. this build is good! i have like 4 easy wins from this build.
Protoss Are Metal!
SupremeMe
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden227 Posts
May 29 2010 11:15 GMT
#128
In PvP Protoss is totally OP. Protoss should be nerfed so that Protoss can fare better against Protoss.
Distributor of pain - Your loss becomes my gain
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
May 29 2010 11:23 GMT
#129
On May 29 2010 20:15 SupremeMe wrote:
In PvP Protoss is totally OP. Protoss should be nerfed so that Protoss can fare better against Protoss.


Wow you're funny.

It still holds true that this build is imbalanced, easy to pull off and hard to defend against.
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
phexac
Profile Joined March 2004
United States186 Posts
May 29 2010 23:13 GMT
#130
Does no one ever send their first zeal to enemy base to fuck up some probes? If he is not making units at all until the warp-in, this will basically win you the game right there...
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
May 29 2010 23:22 GMT
#131
On May 30 2010 08:13 phexac wrote:
Does no one ever send their first zeal to enemy base to fuck up some probes? If he is not making units at all until the warp-in, this will basically win you the game right there...

He can just make zealot(s) and chronoboost if necessary. Thus with the pylons in the enemy's base he can warp it in after he defended his natural. Which makes this so strong.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
XDsCrazy
Profile Joined February 2003
Canada119 Posts
May 29 2010 23:39 GMT
#132
Only thing Ill say is this:

You warp in ur pylon at around 4:30
I get my first stalker at around 4:00

When u pop ur pylons, not only will ur probe be dead but in case its not, my 2nd stalker is already 75% made so I doubt ull get trough
G-_-L
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
May 29 2010 23:55 GMT
#133
On May 30 2010 08:39 XDsCrazy wrote:
Only thing Ill say is this:

You warp in ur pylon at around 4:30
I get my first stalker at around 4:00

When u pop ur pylons, not only will ur probe be dead but in case its not, my 2nd stalker is already 75% made so I doubt ull get trough


Only thing Ill say is this:

Read the replies before posting as not to embaress yourself.

Has been talked about before, pylons in / out of base just delays death
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
XDsCrazy
Profile Joined February 2003
Canada119 Posts
May 30 2010 00:06 GMT
#134
So basicly it come down to is a 4 Warpgate push OP ?

Then no its not
G-_-L
cheeseefungu
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1 Post
May 30 2010 00:20 GMT
#135
On May 30 2010 09:06 XDsCrazy wrote:
So basicly it come down to is a 4 Warpgate push OP ?

Then no its not


This man is correct. This is not some super overpowered build, but just a 4gate push in disguise, which is easily countered.
Chronocide
Profile Joined August 2007
United States126 Posts
May 30 2010 02:37 GMT
#136
I think this build is more effective against high level players than lower level ones. Reason being that players in Gold/Plat rankings tend to make 3 zealots asap for no reason other than to just feel safe, whereas high level players are more likely to make the bare minimum they need to survive.

I mention it because I feel that a lot of lower ranked players will probably find this build attractive as an easy cheese (especially since low level players hate games that last longer than 10 minutes ). If this build doesn't work out right away, it may be best to just remember it for later.
"I quickly scanned the area, and saw no observers, so I locked-down as many scouts as I could with my Ghosts, and ordered one to nuke them" -mrxak
Kime
Profile Joined May 2010
United States17 Posts
May 30 2010 02:49 GMT
#137
"I think this build is more effective against high level players than lower level ones. Reason being that players in Gold/Plat rankings tend to make 3 zealots asap for no reason other than to just feel safe, whereas high level players are more likely to make the bare minimum they need to survive."

I agree. I would have a stalker and a tight choke by this time. I would use the stalker to kill that probe, for sure, and I would likely have a cannon if I sensed cheese. The cannon and the extra units are a lower level player's insurance against cheese and tricks. I know they set you back, but not as much as losing to cheese all the time
trust, but verify
ShiGu
Profile Joined April 2010
France4 Posts
May 30 2010 03:59 GMT
#138
Thanks a lot Tozar, now every single protoss in ladder does this, it's fucking boring, unplayable and totally fucked up , seriously can't you use your brain a little bit before you post this, or are you just totally stupid ?

User was banned for this post.
HoroBoro
Profile Joined April 2010
United States91 Posts
May 30 2010 04:08 GMT
#139
On May 30 2010 12:59 ShiGu wrote:
Thanks a lot Tozar, now every single protoss in ladder does this, it's fucking boring, unplayable and totally fucked up , seriously can't you use your brain a little bit before you post this, or are you just totally stupid ?


Lol - better now then during some sorta high stakes match. At least we're learning how to deal with it.
Mez
Profile Joined February 2010
Australia42 Posts
May 30 2010 04:10 GMT
#140
On May 30 2010 12:59 ShiGu wrote:
Thanks a lot Tozar, now every single protoss in ladder does this, it's fucking boring, unplayable and totally fucked up , seriously can't you use your brain a little bit before you post this, or are you just totally stupid ?


Oh the irony.
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