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On May 30 2010 12:59 ShiGu wrote:
Thanks a lot Tozar, now every single protoss in ladder does this, it's fucking boring, unplayable and totally fucked up , seriously can't you use your brain a little bit before you post this, or are you just totally stupid ?
Then I have done my job as a beta tester. The first step to fixing a problem is making it known.
EDIT: I assure you I thought carefully about this before I posted this topic. I knew the strategy would become more common, which is really the only way to prove it is a problem.
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Ragggeee
2 gate against this build allows your opponent to put pressure on you, keeping you from getting warp gates at the point you want. The strength of this build is you're fighting in your opponents base and probes are generally the casualties of zealots running to get into position. So, to prevent this build, pressure.
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Uh, how does this fare against PvP air builds?
I'm wondering because I typically get an early stalker to deny scouting of any stargates and get warp + 3 gates fast for a big zealot army.
It just seems like if I was to normally progress in my build I would have more gateways earlier and a good amount of zealots as well.
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On May 30 2010 13:13 selboN wrote:
Ragggeee
2 gate against this build allows your opponent to put pressure on you, keeping you from getting warp gates at the point you want. The strength of this build is you're fighting in your opponents base and probes are generally the casualties of zealots running to get into position. So, to prevent this build, pressure.
Yes, pressure definitely works, but as BigT has done to me a few times, one gateway is often enough to apply enough pressure to screw this build up. I have gotten a bit better at scouting and defending this type of thing.
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On May 30 2010 12:59 ShiGu wrote:
Thanks a lot Tozar, now every single protoss in ladder does this, it's fucking boring, unplayable and totally fucked up , seriously can't you use your brain a little bit before you post this, or are you just totally stupid ?
Thid guy tell the truth !
Its boring since I never lost to it yet and the guy just insta quit if u survive his push
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Great Post Tozar.
This kind of build is absurdly strong. Even a mere platinum player like myself can see the brutal genius of it.
You didn't even NEED the Pylons in the base, The 4 pylons being constructed are to ensure the opponent cannot prevent you from warping in, the Pylons happening to be in the mineral line just make it so easy for the econ harassment. During 2 of the Replays thusfar (watched 8 of 12) you've used a pylon outside of the base to warp; in order to break the front door wide open eventually bringing the fight to the probes, Excellence.
I'm glad to see this build in action and I'm looking forward to its inevitable demise.
I'd like to try an offensive Cannon Rush all-in on this. Has anyone tried that strat yet?
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like 90% of Diamond Protoss players are doing this now. lol
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hope this wont mean blizzard will nerf protoss again
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All the hating is hilarious :D
This strategy really works in any match-up.
On 2vs2 maps it's ridiculously strong because you can't get proxied (unless your opponent is a maphacker), on 1vs1 maps proper scouting will easily shut it down.
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i wouldnt call it overpowered and would cry if toss gets nerfed once again..
you dont even have to build in their base but it gives you 2 advantages:
diversion so they try to kill the pylons,
less area to move to mineral line
if they simply walled off with a 1zealot gap and killed your probe, youd have to warp outside of the base and they could still defend with stalkers/sentries
its strong but not overpowered, people will learn to deal with it when they come across it more
just like void rays lol.. (which got nerfed..)
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some protoss players tried to do this to me (and cannon rush).
I simply block my choke with ofcourse pylon/gateway and a probe. This way he can't enter your base (but you'll be a bit behind economically). And if he tries to build outside You'll have your base walled off and can defend easier + FF just in case.
Or in the most extreme measures make a forge and build cannons.
Out of 3 tries that my opponents tried this on me it failed 3 times by just blocking with your probe to prevent him going into your base.
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On May 30 2010 21:04 Knutzi wrote:
hope this wont mean blizzard will nerf protoss again
Well In P vs P Protoss wins 100% of the time, something obviously needs to be done here.
Nerf Please.
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this reminds me of baneling rushes zvz
every player and their little sister does them now
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I have mixed feelings about this one..
On one hand, i like it better then the mass stalkers/mass collosi that every pvp pretty much degenerated into. On the other it really isn't much better.
That said, I used it 7 times in a row just to see how effective it was and yea now I feel dirty. 
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tozar do you want to talk a little about this strategy? im in the irc all day (but im from gerany, so "day" is a little different. i'd like to discuss with you a little about this. want to write me a pm about it? thx !
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On May 31 2010 08:18 Forsti.henning wrote:
tozar do you want to talk a little about this strategy? im in the irc all day (but im from gerany, so "day" is a little different. i'd like to discuss with you a little about this. want to write me a pm about it? thx !
If you have any questions I'll answer them here or if you PM me. Is there anything in particular about this strategy you want to talk about?
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Pretty funny to hear the word "overpowered" used when referring to a mirror match.
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Hey Tozar, I'm trying your build out right now and I've won every game vs all match ups so far except 1 terran game. So strong!!! You know this build is really just a 4 gate rush with focus on mineral line. I think people have not been doing this simply because we all tend to get too addicted to macro and using crono on probes. I noticed while doing your build that as I approach finishing my warp gat tech I am really nervous about wether my resources can fund all the pylons and units but it always works like a charm. I just needed your post to help me commit to the rush. I really like the fact that I only need one gas. I'm used to constantly being gas starved as P and its a sweet change of pace to often have extra gas on just one assimilator.
If you want a cheesy rush build that is similar to this vs zerg check out the post I made a few weeks ago about cannon/zealot rushes a month or so ago.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=122289
Keep in mind the replays are not polished but you can get a general idea of how it works. It really shines to punish a FE zerg player and I still ocasionally use it against an extreemly heavy macro player. I have since refined it to do a sweet transition into void ray if I the player defends well and manages to start making roaches. At this point he is only running off one gas and half minerals because the cannons are denying. You just have to know when to stop making zeals and cannons and start teching. Also with this cheese you are guaranteed to get your pylon down with your scout unless your oponent rushes as well!
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On May 31 2010 11:53 makopluxx wrote:
Pretty funny to hear the word "overpowered" used when referring to a mirror match.
Tired of people saying that, please use your heads just for a moment and stop being so close minded. Yes a build can be overpowered in a mirror. An extreme example would be a build that has no counters (other than doing same thing yourself) and everyone is forced to use. You don't want those overpowered builds in a mirror because you will have no variety. Most people hate PvP as is..
Anywho thanks for heads up on this (though most PvP opponents rush z's vs me.. still I'll have to check it out too)
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EPT
