EPT[D] PvP 4 Warpgate Proxy Pylon Cheese Overpowered? - Page 6
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BigT
United States304 Posts
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Illva
Sweden137 Posts
On May 29 2010 09:37 BigT wrote: Pretty sure i beat this ^^* to bad theres no good way to find out since you would know its coming if you played tozar because of this reason.. | ||
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Tozar
United States245 Posts
On May 29 2010 08:42 deth2munkies wrote: Yes, I do. Considering none of these are particularly amazing or creative alterations and well within the skill of players of their caliber, I don't see why they didn't. If you tried this again, though, I bet they would. First of all, I apologize for the sarcasm. I am well aware of the fact that my opponents made mistakes, in fact, if they didn't they could have been able to hold off the rush. The issue is that some of these mistakes are incredibly easy to make without knowledge of the build and have disproportional consequences for making them. My argument is that this build is too powerful for the amount of skill it takes to pull off. | ||
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TraumisT
United States37 Posts
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Tozar
United States245 Posts
On May 29 2010 09:37 BigT wrote: Pretty sure i beat this ^^* Bah, every time I've played you I miscounted your zealots. But now that I've ironed all the kinks out of the build, I'm sure I could take you.  | ||
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Dawme
France58 Posts
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Antimage
Canada1293 Posts
Why didn't you see this crop up everywhere like we saw with warpgate pylon strategies before warpgate was nerfed? This strategy has been around for so long, and it's SO easily counterable. It just takes some THINKING. You scout your opponent anyway, so just check the guy's energy on his nexus. do you see him saving up for warpgate? If so, save up for it yourself. No nerf is necessary, maybe you guys should think harder/try harder before you say it's overpowered because you beat people with it. You beat people with it because they use cookie cutter strategies and don't react to what they see. | ||
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Vathus
Canada404 Posts
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
edit: Just watched huk replay I thought sentry first woud stop this but that wasnt even fast enough.. I think the only way to stop with you making a mistake would be stalker first and chronoed. I think your right this may be a problem... | ||
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Illva
Sweden137 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4917/48194277.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1204/13286406.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5199/13698237.jpg) -Game 2- ![[image loading]](http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1783/42542934.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/957/25314516.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2640/15190436.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7489/91001854.jpg) -Game 3- ![[image loading]](http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6748/60786997.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7962/12643640.jpg) This is kinda harsh (There is more convo in between I just wanted to show that it even works when someone is prepared so dont take it out of context) | ||
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
On May 29 2010 10:19 Illva wrote: -Game 1- -Game 2- -Game 3- This is kinda harsh (There is more convo in between I just wanted to show that it even works when someone is prepared so dont take it out of context) If you know its coming it is defitnaly stopable just go stalker first and chrono it out they guy who actually stopped it didnt even chrono out his staker. The problem in my opinion is if you dont do exactly that your screwed I am going to try this on the ladder now | ||
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jusayO
Canada60 Posts
Worked like a charm, without even micro'n zealots. I don't really know how this would be beaten once the backup probe gets there, an early stalker just won't do the trick. I got enough gas to get a sentry, or two stalkers just incase, but I noticed he did not have enough units for it to really matter. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On May 29 2010 10:02 Tozar wrote: First of all, I apologize for the sarcasm. I am well aware of the fact that my opponents made mistakes, in fact, if they didn't they could have been able to hold off the rush. The issue is that some of these mistakes are incredibly easy to make without knowledge of the build and have disproportional consequences for making them. My argument is that this build is too powerful for the amount of skill it takes to pull off. It's a well-covered strategy called the 4 warp gate push. You tossing down pylons on the mineral line is the only alteration, but they could easily be in front of the base. You've really just turned a push into a 4 gate all-in which is really the proper terminology for this strat. I don't think the skill differential is so hard, it relies on you doing 3 things any diamond player should do: 1) Scout: Almost all of them saw the 4 warpgates yet did not alter their build. 2) Deny scouting: They left your scouting probe sitting in full view of their base the entire time. 3) Keep resources low: Especially when you do the early zealot pressure that several of them tried, while microing their zealots they stacked up huge quantities of minerals that could have gone towards more warpgates and units that would hold it off. I frequently make the same mistakes those players do, so I can identify them straight away due to it being a flaw we commonly share. You have a very tight build order that is very powerful, but not invincible and would be held off by a player of your caliber easily. | ||
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On May 28 2010 16:25 DuneBug wrote: I guess a lot of people are discounting this because if you lose your probe then the push doesn't work. But it's pretty easy to hide a probe or bait one of the units and then get a probe in. And also the fact that it's pretty hard to tell it's coming is cool. All you can check for is that they are double chrono boosting warpgate research. It'll make me paranoid about ramp blocking in pvp... that's for sure. and lol at all these other people... 'I CAN KILL SCOUTING PROBES, YOUR STRAT IS FAIL... you somehow think you're better than huk and attero? If you knew it was coming, yeah you'd block the ramp. But this looks like so many other standard pvp builds. It's easy to hide a probe if your opponent is brain dead, I'll give you that. | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
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Tozar
United States245 Posts
"10 pylon 10 gate 13 gas 15 cyber..." et cetera, et cetera. I don't mean to claim credit for coming up with the strategy first, because I obviously didn't. Just a way of saying "this is my preferred build order, here's a replay pack of me doing it 13 times." | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
Also, all players were slow to react to you adding three gates at the same time. If I am in your base, and you're making no units, there is no excuse for not seeing three gateways immediately, and reacting by adding gateways of my own. Like I said this looks powerful if they deviate from the regular build, but if they play standard I see you being at a disadvantage trying to do this. | ||
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
@Tozar I am interested in seeing what would happen if your opponent also did the same 4 warpgate proxy rush. Do you warp into your own base or start a base race? | ||
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gdroxor
United States639 Posts
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Antiochus
Canada548 Posts
Also a question about that templar guy you played 3 times were those all consecutive or were there breaks imbetween where you played other people? Just asking because if it was 3 times in a row thats just hilarious. | ||
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