EPTThe new Reaper Terrans... how? - Page 3
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huyNh
Canada366 Posts
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
The first reaper doesnt even seem to be a real trouble for you anyway except on Kulas where it denied your expansion all together, but maybe just a few more lings instead of drones early would've made a diffrence. Maybe you can try a few 13 pool openings on that map. | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
-overlord should of been at the cliff where his reapers were harassing you from, along with the queen -after canceling the expo you could of tried teching to mutas, and then harassing him while you took a high yield. instead you tried to push out with roaches / lings and expand. I think that's a mistake -best not to chase the reapers with your lings off of creep. -you could probably skip roaches and try dual queens / lings while you tech to muta. | ||
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wonksaggin
United States73 Posts
On April 02 2010 16:49 newbcake wrote: i'm both a z and t player #1 plat in my div and I can't understand why you'd complain about being forced to get ling speed. speedlings and banelings rape every terran unit that comes out from the barracks. All he's doing is cutting scvs and building long build time reapers that die against speedlings with an upgrade you should be researching anyway. there's no reason to ever build roaches! you're just inviting him to mass his best unit, marauders. i'd even rather use speedlings vs helions than roaches. Anyway, here's what you do against someone that opens fast reaper: sit in your base massing drones while fending them off with a queen and 1 or 2 pairs of zerglings. wait for ling speed to finish; this'll make your base unharassable now. run to his entrance and morph into banelings; boom, instant GG. someone that opens fast reaper is almost assured to have a supply depot wall, and going fast reaper means he won't have enough marauders or marines to stop you from running amok in his base. if he tries to fast tech to either helions or banshees, he won't have enough out to stop you. i think this is spot-on. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
also you can always go roach warren before expo as a 'standard' play style, you won't lose much in mining/gas/larva anyway expo'ing that early if you continue pumping drones. | ||
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McCrank
204 Posts
On April 02 2010 15:37 TSL-Lore wrote: i would be sad if something as simple as a reaper rush, which can be decided within the first 3 minutes of the game, FORCES the zerg to do something like this in response. Makes for a shallow match up. so that zerg did 1 base right? it's like when zerg puts down a roach warren. terran has to get marauders. then hidden spire comes and rapes them. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
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nujgnoy
United States204 Posts
1. a fast reaper first optimized opening is economically weak 2. too easily countered by a zerg with decent micro 3. a lot of gas invested 4. After reapers have been used, it becomes obsolete; Reapers can't contribute its weight in resources in a mid-latemidgame macro battle (including terran's one-punch) that typically includes roaches and hydras. 5. If a reaper harass is decently defended, the zerg can macro from 2 base and counter the terran. Even if not, the Z can fast lair into hydra or muta, and in both situations the reapers cannot contribute much (although hydras are light, reapers can't face hydras in battles and it wouldn't be cost efficient anyway) 6. Kinda forces an aggressive game which leave the T vulnerable if the attacks are defended properly (high risk) I think reapers are great if the opponent goes a ling-heavy play in which case the T can add some reapers to add dps against lings. But after early game, the more resources invested in reapers, the further behind in tech the T is (different from MM who are crucial part of the T's army through the entire game). Of course, reaper into banshee or hellions are both good strategies, but they're really just strategies that has characteristics similar to cheeses (not that they are strictly cheeses but the two require catching opponent off-guard to do damage, and in some heavily invested variations, they are quite close to being cheeses). I think using the gas to tech to medivacs and upgrades allow for a safer play with the resource investment being better over time than if the resources were spent on reapers. | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
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Avarice
United States36 Posts
You might want to consider a 10/11 overpool rather than 13 pool for the earlier queen on smaller maps. You were losing 2-4 drones before the queen spawned which is a big hit that early. | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
It just seems weird that an in-base rax, part of your wall as normal (i suppose the rax is an scv or 2 sooner for a reaper rush, which isn't really that all in if you ask me), is already enough to make the zerg not be able to FE. | ||
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TheHof
United States92 Posts
Surviving it isn't that difficult. static D will do it, roaches will do it, speedlings will definitely do it. Once you have that down, just know that the Terran has spent quite a bit of gas, and will be vulnerable to quick counter attack. Even just 5 roaches running up will ruin a lot of terran's day if he's built more than 3-4 reapers, and force game control back into your camp. | ||
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bountyface
United States95 Posts
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
On April 03 2010 01:16 bountyface wrote: why would you reaper harass against zerg when you have hellions? reaper comes in about 4 mins, denying any hatch before pool or even 14 pool 15 hatch economic standard zerg BOs. The hellion has always been very easy to defend for me (except for when im behind from the Reapers, like in game 2 on desert oasis) because it comes later, around 6 mins edit: i have a feeling we'll see you in this thread later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=32696 like that user from earlier in this thread lol_women'srights | ||
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Twe3k
89 Posts
You will have to go Roaches in order to beat fast reapers. but rest assured that 1 Roach will fend off about 3 reapers. since reapers don't do +dmg to roaches like they do to lings. speed lings are not the way to go IMO that early in the game you will get lings with speed yes but when he hits, you will have 4 lings and speed upgrading; and he'll just micro you down. however 1 roach will turn the tide and make him retreat. | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
On April 03 2010 01:22 Twe3k wrote: You will have to go Roaches in order to beat fast reapers. but rest assured that 1 Roach will fend off about 3 reapers. since reapers don't do +dmg to roaches like they do to lings. speed lings are not the way to go IMO that early in the game you will get lings with speed yes but when he hits, you will have 4 lings and speed upgrading; and he'll just micro you down. however 1 roach will turn the tide and make him retreat. you should probably watch the replays, as 'retreating' reapers is kind of waht they do best. roaches feel really slow. What league are you (not being dis-respectful, just wondering)? | ||
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Twe3k
89 Posts
*Edit - And I'd love to watch your replay =( but I'm at work and its much EZer to Theorycraft sorry. | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
On April 03 2010 01:33 Twe3k wrote: Tweex.Terres I was platinum pre patch 6 but got thrown in to Gold this go around. Currently fighting back in to plat. Normally when I rush Reapers I rush at 2 reapers at about 3.5 minutes in to the game, if I see any roaches I just bail out and turtle till banshees if not I go in harass and split b 4 losing reapers. you should be more aggressive with your reapers, as they out-range and out-maneuver roaches really easily. Don't wait til 2 reapers, just send your first one to harass drones/see what hes doing/deny FE. Watch the replays | ||
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micropede
United States47 Posts
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