EPTThe new Reaper Terrans... how? - Page 2
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omninmo
2349 Posts
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Vexx
United States462 Posts
Game 2 with Fenix goes reapers to hellions. One spine crawler at both bases with your queen would have fended off all that harass. Game 3 is where it gets really interesting because you build 2 queens and fight off the initial reapers; he transitions into MMM. By the first attack, T had spent more than twice as much as you on his army. I'm surprised you survived that attack. I also feel that you should have stuck to hydras instead of making a handful of banelings. In all the games, you scout the early rax with tech lab. You know exactly what to expect but you don't counter. This is particularly evident in game one where you continue to expo at your nat instead of pumping units/defense after scouting the rax. My advice: - When you scout an early rax with tech lab, build a few extra units or defense. - After you survive the initial harass with minimal losses because you scouted it, make sure to scout his base to see what's going on. Going reaper heavy usually means that there will be very few marines, if any, to shoot down your overlords. Even if there are marines, you'll be able to see if he's got 3 more raxes or if there's a starport going up or a couple factories with reactors. - You don't NEED to expand right away every single game. This isn't sc1. - Invest in your army. It's my opinion that expo + tech is a recipe for disaster (see game 2 on desert oasis). You sacrifice and risk so much to rush mutas while a terran player can just plop down two turrets and pump some marines or vikings. The days of not building more than 6 lings for 10 minutes are gone. As to your comment about reaper opening not costing anything, consider this: The terran is way behind on SCV count. The reapers are expensive (50/50) and die very easily. If they don't kill plenty of workers, the terran is behind. They take 40 seconds to build and are more or less useless in an army confrontation. Consider yourself lucky that it's 5 minutes in to the game and he's building his first marauder instead of already having 5-7 MMs. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
Game 3 the T gained very little if anything for those reapers. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
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AllFear
44 Posts
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
On April 02 2010 14:53 AllFear wrote: learn to play 1 base zerg if thats really the answer then i'd say there's something wrong with this game right now. 1 base MULE > 1 base zer | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
when you scout a fast tech lab, invest less in tech and more in some defense. Keep a queen at each min line and possibly a spine crawler (although i kind of have doubts about the spine) | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
What fenix did looked like a bitch to stop though. I don't know how to stop that.. | ||
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Makica
Canada180 Posts
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Frag.ment
8 Posts
On April 02 2010 13:16 TSL-Lore wrote: Hmm.. I just fought a couple Terrans in a row. I fought Fenix twice and another Terran named Slurgi (in the replays included below) where they all opened with a super fast reaper. They would continue with a few more Reapers, denying my expo or just harassing my drones. I'm trying to figure out.. what can a Zerg do against this? It seems I have to get ling speed or roaches to deal with it, which delays my ability to fend off whatever they come with next (in Fenix's case, quick Banshees. In Slurgi's case, simply a strong MMM attack) Since they had the reapers in the beginning, they can essentially always see what the Zerg is going to do in response, and simply counter accordingly. I was Rank 1 in my Division (platinum division 6) for ever since the reset. After these 3 losses, I got bumped down to 3rd, and I'm afraid to play until I've figured out how to stop it. It seems that the Reaper opening doesn't really cost the Terran anything, as a Terran is always gonna want to have a rax with a tech lab attached. In the case of other types of harass oriented openings, the Terran usually has to sacrifice something. For example, early Vikings means virtually no ground army. Early Hellions usually means not too many Barracks. This is true for other races as well. Early DTs means low gateway count. Early Phoenix means no ground army. But the reaper comes so early, and with such low opportunity cost, that it seems very very difficult to exploit any weakness. I've tried a few things.. extra queen, early ling speed, early roaches. Even if I fend off the reaper harass without too many losses, I feel really behind for the rest of the game (especially in Slurgi's game, where he just A-moved in later with a Nuke to boot) Have any of you zergs had any success against these new Reaper Terrans? Replays posted below: http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/620 - Reaper opening with banshee follow up http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/621 - Reaper opening with Hellion follow up http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/622 - Reaper opening with expo-MMM follow up Haha, I use reapers vs zerg. In fact, I just won a tourney finals with that. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
The zerg then proceeded to get mutas, which match the reaper's mobility and allowed him to expand | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
On April 02 2010 15:32 imBLIND wrote: I was doing almost the exact same reaper rush Fenix did, and the only times it got beat was when the zerg massed too many speedlings for 1rax reapers to work and forced hellion tech or be overrun by bling/zling. The zerg then proceeded to get mutas, which match the reaper's mobility and allowed him to expand i would be sad if something as simple as a reaper rush, which can be decided within the first 3 minutes of the game, FORCES the zerg to do something like this in response. Makes for a shallow match up. so that zerg did 1 base right? | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
On April 02 2010 15:37 TSL-Lore wrote: i would be sad if something as simple as a reaper rush, which can be decided within the first 3 minutes of the game, FORCES the zerg to do something like this in response. Makes for a shallow match up. so that zerg did 1 base right? yea he did 1 base baneling/zergling into mutas and then double expanded. I had to get hellions for the lings and opted for thors instead of rines. I think the MM would've been a better idea, but then I would've needed at least 2 raxes and a reactor to match the muta production, while getting hellions, all off one base. I think 2base baneling/zergling might work if u get about 12 speedlings before your expansion | ||
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NastyMarine
United States1252 Posts
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
On April 02 2010 15:42 imBLIND wrote: yea he did 1 base baneling/zergling into mutas and then double expanded. I had to get hellions for the lings and opted for thors instead of rines. I think the MM would've been a better idea, but then I would've needed at least 2 raxes and a reactor to match the muta production, while getting hellions, all off one base. I think 2base baneling/zergling might work if u get about 12 speedlings before your expansion alright thx for the info.. | ||
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newbcake
United States57 Posts
Anyway, here's what you do against someone that opens fast reaper: sit in your base massing drones while fending them off with a queen and 1 or 2 pairs of zerglings. wait for ling speed to finish; this'll make your base unharassable now. run to his entrance and morph into banelings; boom, instant GG. someone that opens fast reaper is almost assured to have a supply depot wall, and going fast reaper means he won't have enough marauders or marines to stop you from running amok in his base. if he tries to fast tech to either helions or banshees, he won't have enough out to stop you. | ||
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zazen
Brazil695 Posts
countering with Roach is bad decision making, he'll be ready to pump out marauders and profit on your already weakened econ... Very fast hydras or mutas are both much better options. Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine are hands down the best maps for Reaper harass, so be ready. I usually exp only on 20/21 on these maps. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
What i now do is, pool and gas at 14, research speed asap, and expand around 20 supply once i have a few lings and the speed upgrade is being researched. I dont think there is any map where you can go hatch before pool, as this build pretty much default looses against early reapers. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
if he's going reapers u should be abel to repell, counterattack and rip him apart. Or get banelings to bust the front, if it seems hard to do so just exp and use your units to deny any sort of harassment | ||
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