EPTOn March 30 2010 08:57 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
lol xD, what map? Cuz you can switch to a 14 pool usually with that build.
lol xD, what map? Cuz you can switch to a 14 pool usually with that build.
Kulas Ravine. Takes forever to scout
[D] Zerg vs Zerg is broken - Page 3
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
Kulas Ravine. Takes forever to scout | ||
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Attica
United States277 Posts
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brocoli
Brazil264 Posts
And of course, they kill lords faster than mutas do, which are much more valuable than minerals in ZvZ due to it being a mirror match (where their build time will actually mess things up quite badly). IMO this has to be much stronger than mutalisks for obvious reasons. The weak point is actually their movement speed, and there's got to be some good way to stall.. banelings seem to me like the perfect answer. | ||
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Piousflea
United States259 Posts
I tried various strats to hold 2 bases against 2 base mass speedlings without massing speedlings myself. This included traditional roaches, roach with baneling, and ling/baneling. No matter what I tried, the masslings ran circles around my units (unupgraded banes are embarassingly slow) and steadily killed anything not protected by roaches or banelings, while picking off lone roaches. Surprisingly, even ling/bane was weaker than pure lings. While I could beat a pure ling army in a straight fight, banes are so slow that I was stuck on defense, which surrendered complete map control. It felt like being muta contained, but by lings! However, two things seem like they can beat mass speedlings. 1) A 6-8 pool cheese rush will win easily. I hate cheese rushes though. 2) Staying on 1 base until you have a large number of roaches, then taking a 2nd base and defending with roaches. Depending on map, you can either block the choke with roaches and leave 2-3 in your Drone line to catch any that run-through, or simply keep 10 roaches and a queen in each Drone line. #2 is risky if he goes mutas while keeping speedlings near your base for a backstab. While mutas will not kill 20 roaches before they destroy your base, muta+speedling will win the base-trade easily, especially if it comes down to Extractor hiding. | ||
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FiercE
United States78 Posts
he called me a noob and that "massing zerglings isn't skill" and rage quit the game so then I message him right away and get this gem: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EURXm.png) edit: here's replay http://www.sendspace.com/file/0fr5ga | ||
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Karas
United States230 Posts
However, that requires more tech so it may not be viable enough. | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
On March 30 2010 11:58 FiercE wrote: i just tried this strategy and raped the kid with pure zerglings he called me a noob and that "massing zerglings isn't skill" and rage quit the game so then I message him right away and get this gem: edit: here's replay http://www.sendspace.com/file/0fr5ga Hahaha that's me! I said it was a build order win. I watched the rep like 3 times and added it to my list to look out for. | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
On March 30 2010 07:08 iCCup.Raelcun wrote: Build Order
If you're going to give a build order, imo it'd be nice to give one that actually works. You can't get +1 melee without an evo (presumably you want to build the evo so it finishes right when you'd start researching +1? When is that? What's the queen timing?). | ||
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FiercE
United States78 Posts
On March 30 2010 12:15 RoieTRS wrote: Hahaha that's me! I said it was a build order win. I watched the rep like 3 times and added it to my list to look out for. you didn't have to be such an asshole after the loss... -_- anyways, you didn't scout | ||
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Tristan
Canada566 Posts
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Leoj
United States396 Posts
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Hansel
Germany311 Posts
On March 30 2010 11:50 Piousflea wrote: .... Surprisingly, even ling/bane was weaker than pure lings. While I could beat a pure ling army in a straight fight, banes are so slow that I was stuck on defense, which surrendered complete map control. It felt like being muta contained, but by lings! ... I dont believe this. you can easily move up to his base with some lings, put them out of sight somewhere and morph half to banelings. now he cant attack you and you move them in his peonline. Like someone already said only way to kill banelings with speedlings is only move in very few and try to get them to explode, this is nearly impossible if you are being attacked and have to react imho. | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
On March 30 2010 12:19 crate wrote: If you're going to give a build order, imo it'd be nice to give one that actually works. You can't get +1 melee without an evo (presumably you want to build the evo so it finishes right when you'd start researching +1? When is that? What's the queen timing?). Once the zerglings are out I can't give supply numbers because you will lose supply while scouting and engaging with roaches try thinking before you're rude and obviously if you see +1 melee attack on 100 gas you know you'll have to build the evo chamber early play with the timing it doesn't have to be perfect. | ||
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HTX
Germany265 Posts
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TopHat
United States12 Posts
Gives you stronger scouting and map control. (Reduces chances of cheese) A mineral/economy advantage. (Less drones in gas if you delay +1) The disadvantage would have to be the level of micro required to not botch it though. Lings need to attack in the right places, at the right times, and perform surrounds to be effective. That being said, it opens up room for a lot more flavor in ZvZ, potential transitions to banelings, which would likely be great micro mechanics, similiar to scourge/muta in sc1. I do think that with proper micro, banelings do not quite hard counter mass ling, due to their speed. 1 ling set to attack a baneling leads to 3 scenarios. Zergling kills baneling. Baneling explodes and both die. Opponent's zerglings kill your zergling before the baneling dies. It feels like it would play out much like archon/muta in sc1, where archons do amazing damage to muta balls, but find it difficult to make it into range. | ||
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Blackjackbob
Canada164 Posts
What exactly are you suppose to do if your opponent 10 pools (or less)? I just happened to get lucky and spawned close to him on lost temple. Enough so that I skipped the hatch and just stayed on once base to get my pool out. | ||
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fastlikeacat
Armenia14 Posts
the only way this build ever wins is with a back stab/elimination race but i usually sneak a drone out with my roach army and slip it to his base and make a spine crawler or take a gas. ZvZ is absolutely broken among other things.... | ||
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Blackjackbob
Canada164 Posts
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
I reckon eventually all the ZvZ will be like ling + muta just like SC1. RIP scourge + muta aerial battle T-T | ||
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Disarray
United States1164 Posts
it sort of reminds me of the "bat riders countering gargoyles" in warcraft3. sure they exploded and killed gargs, but gargs were SOOO cheap, it just didn't matter. | ||
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