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[D] Zerg vs Zerg is broken - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Blackjackbob
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada164 Posts
March 29 2010 23:22 GMT
#21
On March 30 2010 08:19 Korn wrote:
plz delete.


You said something about upgrading roaches with +1 attack to kill zerglings in 2 shots, rather than 3... why did you delete the post?

Not trying to be rude, just actually curious
TLOBrian
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States453 Posts
March 29 2010 23:23 GMT
#22
Maybe pumping some extra queens would help, you could also build a wall in with queens and spinecrawlers. Also, early queens help in denying scouting overlords at cliffs, and are a great tanking unit.
Steven Bonnell II is the friggin man.
zazen
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Brazil695 Posts
March 29 2010 23:26 GMT
#23
I find Banelings to destroy pure lings even harder than marines...
Banelings are usually my response to Z's who make too many lings and they work well.
"The quest for nexus has brought many men of genius to insanity... HUEHUEHUE!"
Tyrran
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
France777 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-29 23:35:56
March 29 2010 23:34 GMT
#24
I have also played this build in a fewgames, and it works pretty well. The only struggle I have is to find the optimal ratio of workers/zergling too build. You want to press the economic advantage you have for having an extra hatch, as well as being able to afford the upgrades ( if the games drags on, i like to go for a fast hive just for the 3/3 cracklings :D ). But if you dont pay attention, you 'migth' get overrun by roaches..

I used to go for a 1 base speedling rush to counter FE/Roach, but i feel that this build is stronger. I still need a little practice tho :p

Also, when a players decide to add banelings, then the game is just a world of fun. Speedlings can quite easely dodge blings, but a small mistake can cost you the game.
Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.
Floophead_III
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1832 Posts
March 29 2010 23:39 GMT
#25
It's an allin and not viable if scouted. Fast lair will completely dismantle this strategy, especially cause of burrow and roach speed. Ever seen lings try to kill a burrowed roach? They almost can't, even with +1. I think it might counter specific FE roach style builds on some maps but honestly it's a losing game if scouted in my experience.

Also once the roach ball gets big enough speedling really starts to suck because only so many can hit roaches at once, but all those roaches are gonna be firing at your lings. God forbid they get +1 attack and 2 shot lings. I might consider just getting that if I see no warren from now on because it's so funny to see lings fail so hard.

Also I'd like to point out that hydra completely rape mutaling so if you don't manage to kill him before muta are coming you can just start massing hydra and you'll still be in good shape vs anything he can make.
Half man, half bear, half pig.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
March 29 2010 23:46 GMT
#26
ffs what is wrong with like 98% of all zerg players?
nearly every player and poster ive encountered completely forgets about the only other tier 1 unit we have
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
March 29 2010 23:55 GMT
#27
On March 30 2010 08:09 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2010 08:07 _rdm_ wrote:
dont tell the americans how to play zvz

This strategy isnt out on american servers yet.


I'm an american zerg and I'm getting tired of winning by default just because they try to go roaches and with over 60% of my games being ZvZ on average it gets old after a while.

edit: Seriously to the doubters TRY IT like I said in the OP I gave you a BO use it and tell me it doesnt work then.

6pooled
Raelcun
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States3747 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-29 23:57:57
March 29 2010 23:57 GMT
#28
On March 30 2010 08:55 Saracen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 30 2010 08:09 iCCup.Raelcun wrote:
On March 30 2010 08:07 _rdm_ wrote:
dont tell the americans how to play zvz

This strategy isnt out on american servers yet.


I'm an american zerg and I'm getting tired of winning by default just because they try to go roaches and with over 60% of my games being ZvZ on average it gets old after a while.

edit: Seriously to the doubters TRY IT like I said in the OP I gave you a BO use it and tell me it doesnt work then.

6pooled


lol xD, what map? Cuz you can switch to a 14 pool usually with that build.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
March 30 2010 00:00 GMT
#29
ffs are you still talking about this build when banelings crush it? w/o switching to roaches you'll always lose to roach/baneling attack.
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Karas
Profile Joined March 2010
United States230 Posts
March 30 2010 00:00 GMT
#30
I watched the replays. While the idea has promise, there is one thing I didn't see in any of the replays you posted (btw, 2 of them are ling/ling battles which really is not the point of the discussion).

There was no focus firing from the roaches. In every early battle I saw, the roaches were just firing into the swarm, which is a serious waste of attacks. Even 3 roaches can kill a ling in one hit, which lowers your DPS quickly.

I'm not discounting the tactic, I would be thrilled to see lings being made more viable but I need to see some good roach use before I say that lings can flat out beat them.

Also, what the reps may show better than ling vs roach is the power of FE in zvz. There's nothing to say someone could not 14 hatch and then go lings to transition into roaches. Or even mix roach and ling armies (a few roaches to tank, while the ling surround).
scAre
Profile Joined November 2008
Estonia28 Posts
March 30 2010 00:05 GMT
#31
its tricky stuff.
if u go faster pool u can get queen faster and compensate the second hatchery with inject larve for awhile and get second queen ready as your second hatchery finishes.
And if u go hatchery first then pool then the queen is signifcally delayed.

So this isnt clear whether hatch first ->pool first when comparing larva production.
I personally favor pool first as it gives more flexibility.
veni vidi vici
Koffiegast
Profile Joined February 2010
Netherlands346 Posts
March 30 2010 00:15 GMT
#32
Lots of maps got tiny chokes
Roach > banes/lings
Banes > lings
Speedlings > mapcontrol and if your oppo fucks up you can raze their base.
Wut
DowMah
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden6 Posts
March 30 2010 00:20 GMT
#33
Didn't work, zerg went banelings and they owned lings so I had to swtich to muta roaches and won.
rrowland
Profile Joined March 2010
United States84 Posts
March 30 2010 00:33 GMT
#34
Banelings are a pretty good counter, however it can turn into a micro battle as you can send in a single speedling and take out a baneling.

Players I have encountered that have beat me when I went speedlings won by keeping all of their roaches at their drones with a single spine crawler and severely limiting my ability to surround anything. From this point it's easy for them to mass and tech.
cartoon]x
Profile Joined March 2010
United States606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-30 00:35:53
March 30 2010 00:35 GMT
#35
that's cool, since I love zerglings. This build will open up more interesting counters in ZvZ.
It is not enough to conquer; one must learn to seduce.
Piousflea
Profile Joined February 2010
United States259 Posts
March 30 2010 01:20 GMT
#36
This is way more interesting than pure roach.
Seek, behold, and reveal the truth
Hansel
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany311 Posts
March 30 2010 01:26 GMT
#37
On March 30 2010 09:33 rrowland wrote:
Banelings are a pretty good counter, however it can turn into a micro battle as you can send in a single speedling and take out a baneling.

Players I have encountered that have beat me when I went speedlings won by keeping all of their roaches at their drones with a single spine crawler and severely limiting my ability to surround anything. From this point it's easy for them to mass and tech.


This. To me it seems like the best way to play zvsz is 10pool then mass ling expand with 1 gas running and see what hes doing. If he builds lings too make banelings if he goes roaches and stays in his base drone up yourself, make spine crawler and get a roach warren so your ahead with your expo. Thats what works for me at least.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV_hDyfmEw4
Tinithor
Profile Joined February 2008
United States1552 Posts
March 30 2010 01:31 GMT
#38
Just a thought but wouldn't banelings stomp mass speedlings?
"Oh-My-GOD" ... "Is many mutas, Yes?"
Funchucks
Profile Joined June 2007
Canada2113 Posts
March 30 2010 01:42 GMT
#39
On March 30 2010 10:31 Tinithor wrote:
Just a thought but wouldn't banelings stomp mass speedlings?

Seems to depend on micro. It can be brutally effective, but you need to get the splash working for you against faster units.

I think the more the experience level rises, the less effective banelings alone will be against zerglings alone, but I'm not going to hazard any guesses about the potential of sophisticated mixed-unit tactics including banelings.
I serve my houseguests slices of butter.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
March 30 2010 01:49 GMT
#40
if you know its coming in time banelings hard counter it. if you dont know whats coming and just play safe roaches still beat it. only way its freewin is if you're playing someone who isnt aware that you can make speedlings.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
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