Hmm, what about moving adrenaline glances ( dont remember the name, Zerling +20% attack speed upgrade ) from Hive to Lair and reducing cost to 150/150?

Upgrade for Zerglings in Hive tier is a joke, at that point in the game ( having Hive ) no1 uses Zerglings as a attack force, maybe sometimes in ZvT to surround MMM army so they cant run from banelings ( but infestors are way better for that at this stage ).

That way using Zerglings would make them actually viable even a little later in the game.

Koffiegast

Netherlands346 Posts

April 04 2010 00:07 GMT

#142

Lings aren't exactly dmg dealers (late in the game, early game you can deal a bit of dmg with them). The only reason you get them is to contain an attack force / hold them up. But this isn't always necessary in MU where you have face off situations.

kidcrash

United States620 Posts

April 04 2010 00:24 GMT

#143

I agree with moving adrenaline glands to lair tech or at least increasing the attack speed bonus if it remains at hive tech. Right now it feels useless being at hive tech. At that stage in the game, the current attack speed bonus for cracklings is not sufficient enough to keep them on par with tier, whatsoever.

MavercK

Australia2181 Posts

April 04 2010 00:36 GMT

#144

hydra/roach falls to pure roach.

http://www.mediafire.com/?kjzqwizum0j

be forewarned it's a 19 minute roach-build-a-thonso watch it fast.
he goes roach/hydra
i go roach with an upgrade or two.
game seemed pretty even until the end.

Teejing

Germany1360 Posts

April 04 2010 01:09 GMT

#145

what is your problem with speedlings guys? They got weaker in exchange for speed. They are perfectly fine.

And btw i never build roaches in any match up as random player, i just dislike these slow moving short range towers ^^. i think i won 9 out of my last 10 zvz just playing it oldschool style.

Well maybe it is because i am only in gold league, but i am at least 1st.

FiercE

United States78 Posts

April 04 2010 01:14 GMT

#146

On April 04 2010 09:24 kidcrash wrote:
I agree with moving adrenaline glands to lair tech or at least increasing the attack speed bonus if it remains at hive tech. Right now it feels useless being at hive tech. At that stage in the game, the current attack speed bonus for cracklings is not sufficient enough to keep them on par with tier, whatsoever.

i agree, i almost never get adrenaline glands because by the time i get to hive tech, zerglings are pretty useless

make it lair tech and you'll see my get adrenaline glands much more often

Teejing

Germany1360 Posts

April 04 2010 01:15 GMT

#147

On April 04 2010 10:14 FiercE wrote:

Show nested quote +

i agree, i almost never get adrenaline glands because by the time i get to hive tech, zerglings are pretty useless

zerglings are so nice to block enemies units path, so they cannot run away and have to fight.

MavercK

Australia2181 Posts

April 04 2010 01:20 GMT

#148

you should always be getting zerglings from start to finish. they are excellent units to spend excess minerals on that will act as a meat shield/extra damage/blocking unit to compliment your standard army. or simply use for runbys or back dooring

MavercK

Australia2181 Posts

April 04 2010 01:55 GMT

#149

OK!

so JUST AFTER. winning pure roach against roach/hydra and posting a replay. i have new findings.
won a game with roach/hydra against pure roach (oh im good at making myself look stupid)

anyway. in this game we both got upgrades. we both rushed +2 attack and then +1 attack. i got +3 attack out and attacked on completion.

hydra make roach go pop with +3 attack, i was amazed at the damage they did.

but 0/0 upgrades i would say roaches clearly dominate ZvZ.
so if you want to win with hydras. start your upgrades early.

neobowman

Canada3324 Posts

April 04 2010 01:59 GMT

#150

TLDR the other posts.

Isn't this basically what brood war ZvZ was? Hydras were crap, and if both players go zerglings, then won't you eventually get to Mutas?

MavercK

Australia2181 Posts

April 04 2010 02:14 GMT

#151

well im getting mixed results
first i was doing mass roaches with no upgrades and having a frustrating time because it was just. gay.
then doing this speedling into muta build i had ALOT of success. never lost a game. but i can see how +1 attack roach would destroy speedlings.
now doing this early upgrades going for +3 attack asap transitioning into hydras i seem to be having alot of success. the only problem? games go for 25-30 minutes with alot of staring each other in the eye across the battlefield.

mass speedlings is the funnest and probably the best imo.
you get that early map control any early (10 or less roaches) push will get destroyed by speedlings and you get mutas out. really fast and if hes been going mass roach. his lair/spire/den will be very very delayed. hopefully you just have enough speedlings. this build is extremly dangerous in terms of a timing attack when you go spire/start making mutas. as only a couple mutas will not help at all in a fight and what roaches you "could" of had instead of mutas can easily cost you the game. (he can kill your army and all your drones before you get out a critical amount of mutas)

CursOr

United States6335 Posts

April 04 2010 02:50 GMT

#152

Don't Zergling's that run into Banelings get killed by the handful?

Woudln't you be better defending against a player massing Zerglings just be careful and place Banelings around buildings and your army of Roaches as you push around the map?

(Terran player, just asking...)

vvvVec

Norway85 Posts

April 04 2010 04:32 GMT

#153

After reading this thread i tried out the speedling build, had some success, but nothing special. Around 50% win ratio.

I don't see how i could have excecuted this any different, it seems like this [what u see in the replay] pretty much stops FE-speedling dead in it's tracks. I pretty much get demolished by +1 roaches.

I'm very interested in feedback, otherwise i will prolly go back to just massing roaches with +1 again *sigh*.

In-game handle: Vec.Vec

REPLAY: http://www.mediafire.com/?y2mmgw22mqx

MavercK

Australia2181 Posts

April 04 2010 05:03 GMT

#154

On April 04 2010 11:50 cursor wrote:
Don't Zergling's that run into Banelings get killed by the handful?

Woudln't you be better defending against a player massing Zerglings just be careful and place Banelings around buildings and your army of Roaches as you push around the map?

(Terran player, just asking...)

banelings destroy zerglings. but thats it. they are useless against any other unit (maybe hydras if you can ever get them that close)
so yea if you know speedlings are coming banelings are a good choice. but regardless it seems this build will just be used for fast mutas and then what? you've spent gas on getting banelings so you'll be behind. unless you can end it before that.

*EDIT*

also upload replays to mediafire.com next time. it's simpler. easier. faster and doesn't make me god damn wait ! T_T

vvvVec

Norway85 Posts

April 04 2010 05:15 GMT

#155

also upload replays to mediafire.com next time. it's simpler. easier. faster and doesn't make me god damn wait ! T_T

Alright, http://www.mediafire.com/?y2mmgw22mqx

MavercK

Australia2181 Posts

April 04 2010 05:40 GMT

#156

lol ty

well. +1 attack on roaches is supposed to be the direct counter to speedlings
i generally go lair after starting +1 attack with the next 100 gas. you didn't go lair at all.
also he got his +1 attack a minute or two before you did. your major clash also happened while he had +1 attack and you did not. i think that was all really.

vvvVec

Norway85 Posts

April 04 2010 06:23 GMT

#157

I am reluctant to think that a "measly" +1 favored the battle so vastly in his favor, but then again i'm not basing that on any sort of tangible fact or statistic. What is true is that futher testing needs to be done! Anything but roach spam is certainly welcome

MavercK

Australia2181 Posts

April 04 2010 06:39 GMT

#158

+1 on roach means they 2 shot zerglings instead of 3 shots. given how slowly roaches attack. it's a really really big deal for them.

i dunno what the numbers are on lings vs roaches but +1 for the lings is huge aswell. alot less attacks required to kill the unit.

BigDatez

Canada434 Posts

April 04 2010 07:53 GMT

#159

Wouldn't it be a darned shame if he got 5> mutas, or broodlords?
Hydras arent ALWAYS used for power in ZvZ, alot of the time they are used
to counter any type of air harass, ALSO they have much longer range than the roaches.
Now i've vsed many armies of nearly pure hydra roach/hydra combos, and focus roaches and win
BUT, if he seriously got some brood lords out, what then? gg for you? By the time you build a Hydra den, he could be knocking at your base, and forget about the spire, such a long build time.

Failsafe

United States1298 Posts

April 04 2010 08:09 GMT

#160

On April 04 2010 09:36 MavercK wrote:
hydra/roach falls to pure roach.

http://www.mediafire.com/?kjzqwizum0j

be forewarned it's a 19 minute roach-build-a-thonso watch it fast.
he goes roach/hydra
i go roach with an upgrade or two.
game seemed pretty even until the end.

you're completely wrong. roach / hydra beats pure roach in a lot of situations because the hydras deal so much more damage