I've been doing this strat the last few days, and thought it was so fun that I started to incorporate it into my ZvP and ZvT occasionally. It's risky and it's fun. Is it effective? It's worked well enough for me, as long as I'm really on my toes and play aggressive. I don't know how well it'll work against particularly good players, or someone that goes something other than a standard 1 base Roach ZvZ build.

zomgzergrush

United States923 Posts

March 31 2010 08:41 GMT

#102

It gets tricky when they start doing ling as well...

MLG_Wiggin

United States767 Posts

March 31 2010 08:59 GMT

#103

Oh, I forgot to mention. I also played against a very good Zerg who mirrored my build, and we had some very nice speedling wars on Desert Oasis. It was a close enough mirror that we both even expanded at the same time. I gained the upper hand when I chose to get +1 attack and he chose to tech to Muta. I scouted it and pushed in time to break into his base as his Mutas first popped, and easily won the base-trading race.

Even if it's not the most effective ZvZ strategy, it's many times more fun to play then 1base Roach v 1base Roach.

Kuznagi

Canada58 Posts

March 31 2010 15:02 GMT

#104

Used this strat last night and went 5-1 in ZvZ, often times they will try very hard to push you with initial 4 roachs followed by 7 so it kind of mucks up with your timing push but if you can fend it off you are at an advantage. I guy a lost to on Stepps of War? pushed my expansion with a small roach force and main with a bigger one while teching to mutas I had been too occupied and teched slower to mutas so eventually he wore me down. I think if you can tech faster defend or be aggressive yourself it will work well.

Kingpin

United States7 Posts

March 31 2010 17:44 GMT

#105

I've used this now as well in my ZvZ but I find it doest do well on steppes of war and the other 1v1 where basically a straight run across the middle (one with 2 grass patches in the mid...) b/c the early pool or first roach force gets to me too soon with the late pool this build has.

But for ever other map this strat seems to beat all.

Hallitossis

United States11 Posts

March 31 2010 21:41 GMT

#106

Seems to have trouble against a roach player that gets early +1 ranged attack.

Bibdy

United States3481 Posts

March 31 2010 23:10 GMT

#107

Wait what? Wasn't it mass Roaches vs Roaches before? What changed?

MLG_Wiggin

United States767 Posts

March 31 2010 23:25 GMT

#108

On April 01 2010 08:10 Bibdy wrote:
Wait what? Wasn't it mass Roaches vs Roaches before? What changed?

People figured out that if you're ballsy and quick you can out mass the Roaches enough with Speedlings to establish map control and win the macro game. So now there are two 'standard' options to open with, 1 base Roach or FE Speedlings.

Or you could always 6-8 pool and just cheese it.

FiercE

United States78 Posts

April 01 2010 02:31 GMT

#109

so i found that on small 2 player maps (blistering sands and steppes of war) 6 pool, drone, drone, 3x2 zerglings, send 2 drones when 3x2 zerglings are half way done to build 2 spine crawlers on enemy creep will ALWAYS beat an opponent's 10 pool

if it's any other map, i go the 13 pool first then 14 expansion then queen

billyX333

United States1360 Posts

April 01 2010 02:50 GMT

#110

I did this as my primary strategy for a great majority of my early games
(usually ranked 2nd/3rd in my plat division so usually not vs idiots) and there are some incredibly easy counters
for example: noticing a trend of really really early baneling rush into mineral line vs roach players but if you did this zergling strategy you will get dominated (all ur lings evaporate while he rolls in w/ his)
but I've regularly beaten this baneling strat with fast 1up roaches
and if you both do the identical 1 up speedling vs speedling build then first guy to get 2-3 money shots w/ banelings win (unless one of the players didnt get 1up on lings and actually transitioned into roaches in which case banelings are awful)

caution.slip

United States775 Posts

April 01 2010 06:31 GMT

#111

On March 31 2010 06:35 ukshi wrote:
I tried this, but my opponent walled himself in with roaches and made tons of workers and spore crawlers for defense against mutalisks. Even tho he didn't have any expansions he produced units fine as fuck.

Now lings were useless.

if hes powering off one base and building spore crawlers you should be expanding to 3 bases and owning him. If he moves out your lings can surround / back stab, if he doesn't you win the macro war

DreamShake

Peru120 Posts

April 01 2010 06:57 GMT

#112

I'm sorry I dunno how people are having success with this speedling vs roaches.

3-4 Roaches with micro and queen and possibly spinecrawler > X amount of speedlings
If you fail your first attack, he just moves out 2 min later with 20 roaches (i like to up +1 attack), and gg? If you FE with some crawlers, if the opponent is smart, he would have scouted the FE, gotten his own expo after fending off puny lings, tech to lair + hydras + contain + take over map = GG

Sorry man, I just get a huge smile on my face when ZvZ and the guy decides to get speedlings +fe
Muts come too late and upped hydras rape them and Hydras are cheaper and faster to get.

cartoon]x

United States606 Posts

April 01 2010 07:56 GMT

#113

Now that you can block ramps with roaches the roach user should be able to move out earlier, right?

fishyjoes

Germany644 Posts

April 01 2010 07:56 GMT

#114

Well done Raelcun. But didnt you post too early?

zomgzergrush

United States923 Posts

April 01 2010 08:31 GMT

#115

I still have a tough time vs people who actually get roach.

I think the trick is to exploit the backstab if they wanna move out prematurely. If theyre smart and wait, though, it's ample time to get spines up and move towards tech, more ups, or more lings.

DarKFoRcE

Germany1215 Posts

April 01 2010 09:01 GMT

#116

I think the reason 1 base roachers lose to zerglings is mainly that they dont counter them with banelings.

I've tried out the 14 hatch 14 pool build on scrap station yesterday, and i was absolutely obliterated by banelings/roaches.

Now im back to 1 Base roaches, although, admittedly, i lost once to speedlings since then, it was because i played too eco intensive and had the banelings out too late.

Geo.Rion

7377 Posts

April 01 2010 09:17 GMT

#117

2 hatch speedling... a lot of ppl does that, mass roach rapes it quite hard
i see why do you say lings could own them, but if you do not engage in a stupid position speedlings do not take down the roaches.
burrow upgrade also totally rapes the lings, even if you have an overseer around, its a lot harder to focus fire with speedlings the burrowed raoches

also a couple lings of your own can mass up the other player's units if you use them correctly.

And there are ofc the banelings

Mystlord

United States10264 Posts

April 01 2010 09:18 GMT

#118

Just throwing my two cents in:

I think this will work until the player who went Roaches goes for a +1 ranged attack upgrade timing push. Roaches with +1 range 2 shot lings, so the player who goes mass lings is forced to go for the carapace upgrade, and at that point the survivability of Roaches vs lings becomes an issue.

Mobility of Zerglings is nice, but when Roaches clump in a ball, there just isn't enough surface area on that Roach ball for mass Lings to work.

ColorsOfRainbow

Germany354 Posts

April 01 2010 09:40 GMT

#119

a mirror can never be broken

in sc2 nothing is broken

roaches > ur strat

damn dont cry

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

April 01 2010 10:21 GMT

#120

Yesterday was zvz day, so I faced several variations of speedling builds. +1 ranged easily beat them all so far. I only faced "favored" players btw.

Currently I really hope that my enemies go for lings in zvz. If they play like me the games go all the way up to Broodlords and I generally lose because I have zero experience with infestors.