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On March 14 2010 18:51 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 17:43 Rothbardian wrote:
By the time the Terran has 8-12 Marines, you should have plenty of Zealots. Make the Marines dance, and out comes your Colo. Seriously, if a Terran is waiting until they get 8-12 Marines AND pulling SCV, that should be auto-win for Toss. I should know, I've tried early pushes against a fast teching Toss with less marines than that and still have a lot of trouble stopping it. An early Marine push is not all-in, fyi.
Chronoboost your Gateways after you do the first few on your Nexus. For some odd reason I suspect this "all-in" isn't a 12 Marine push LOL. fast possible robo bay starts around the time the rush is approaching your base. dont post if you havent actually played the game.
I have played the game. If you read what I posted, your Zealots should make the Marines dance, which buys you time to get your higher tech units out.
I'm 101-68 with 1650 ELO in Platinum. Not that, that means much, but whatever.
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Are scvs still 60 hp? I mean why would they? The early game rushes as P and Z are very ineffective in comparison with sc1, where 60 hp scvs where a neccesity. Why such a big boost for scv? The current abuse is a natural consequence of scvs being so strong compared to other miners.
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I'm curious how early this rush is hitting if done correctly. From my experience as Terran, 6 marines + scvs should be at your ramp at around 4:15 to 4:30 game time (not proxy) which would be enough time to have 4-6 zealots if you two gate.
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Do any of the people suggesting canons realise that a forge + 2 canons is 450 minerals while a command center is 400 minerals? Or that the terran player also has a scout with which they can see you spending all your minerals on canons at which point they can just decide to expand? Or that all of these points were covered on like the first page? If the terran player gets to 8 marines and sees you have gone for canons they can expand at about 5:00 to 5:30. You will not have the tech or the minerals to stop this expansion if you made canons, you will have to wait until the midgame unless you feel like sending your units in to die.
2 options:
a) Protoss player doesn't get early canons, terran player wins outright
b) Protoss player does get early canons, terran player easily sees this and expands instead, protoss player can't do anything about this while terran gets ahead in economy.
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I want to see some replays please
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Presuming you've walled yourself in in response to his pulling SCVs, you don't actually build the forge until he's about halfway to your base. In this instance him scouting you is much less of a concern since you're opening with stalkers.
The option for the terran going fast expand does seem to eliminate the possibility of scouting no gas and laying down a forge, though. Sentries are still an interesting suggestion.
Also: couldn't you hide your forge, get a sentry, and build cannons while he's delayed by forcefield? You would do this upon sighting no gas
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The key to executing this build.
10 supply depot
11 Barracks
12 Barracks
Constantly produce marines
you will need another supply depot
When you have 5 ish marines you make the orbital command. keep mining until orbital is like 70% done, Send ALL SCVs, send all marines.
Keep the SCVs in front of the marines, dont send them in attack move, but use them defensively. You need as much damage as possible from the marrines. With proper micro Terran wins EVERY time.
MAKE SURE YOU GET A LARGER FORCE OF MARINES 8-9 is good and DONT use the SCVs offensively, keep them just in front of the marines and if possible micro them as good as possible (use mineral trick to pull back damaged ones)
You can beat any protoss force possible at this point. The ranged + melee vs all melee advantage is too high.
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On March 14 2010 19:23 kimchiterran wrote:
So far I easily defended all variations of this rush just with base 2 gate zealots opening (no forge). Late second gate still makes it suitable. I chrono boosted my gates and used part of the probes to fight of course. And I'm not even a Protoss user.
Raven
Replay?
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pre-beta some made the prediction that the foreigner scene would lead the charge when it came to innovation in sc2. afaik that was based on the opinion that koreans dominate scbw with mechanics while foreigners tend to exhibit more flair, as well as other assumptions about how each group would react to the differences between scbw and sc2
so it’s interesting that the 2 biggest stories regarding strategy or imbalance i’ve heard of have been pvp warpgates and the tvp rine+scv rush, which afaik were both developed on the asia server. it seems logical that the obvious imbalances in the game would be discovered by the more creative community heh, so....
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On March 14 2010 22:58 x2fst wrote:
pre-beta some made the prediction that the foreigner scene would lead the charge when it came to innovation in sc2. afaik that was based on the opinion that koreans dominate scbw with mechanics while foreigners tend to exhibit more flair, as well as other assumptions about how each group would react to the differences between scbw and sc2
so it’s interesting that the 2 biggest stories regarding strategy or imbalance i’ve heard of have been pvp warpgates and the tvp rine+scv rush, which afaik were both developed on the asia server. it seems logical that the obvious imbalances in the game would be discovered by the more creative community heh, so....
just because its publicized there doesnt mean it was developed there, i dunno about the rine allin but warpgates were being abused quite early on the us server
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true... u got an opinion on that in general?
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ive played like 7 games on asia and i avoid watching artosis replays on principle, i dont really have any idea how they play. id imagine foreigners would be more creative, but the top koreans are largely war3 players, and amongst americans the war3 players seem to be quick to pick up abusive cheesy stuff (out of necessity since they suck ass beyond it).
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Its easy to use vs Protoss with normal builds, Terrans with 1 Rax and Wall and vs Zerg with 12 Hatch.
9 pool is difficult but possible to win if zerg doesnt micro well
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Sentry, forcefield -> works.
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On March 15 2010 00:23 G.s)NarutO wrote:
Sentry, forcefield -> works.
If the build is executed properly it is impossible to have a sentry out already
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On March 14 2010 19:23 kimchiterran wrote:
So far I easily defended all variations of this rush just with base 2 gate zealots opening (no forge). Late second gate still makes it suitable. I chrono boosted my gates and used part of the probes to fight of course. And I'm not even a Protoss user.
Raven
Post a replay and your rank/league or you will be ignored.
Clearly either 1: your opponents are trash or 2: you're not telling the truth
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so I felt like testing the timings out in single player.
I used a stopwatch instead of the replay bar since I don't actually have access to my working replays. I'll just add +5 seconds to my terran rush timing and I think it should be ok.
So I tried the 10rax 11supply 11rax 16 supply.
Scouted with scv that finished first barracks. Moved out with all but 4 scvs when 6 marines popped.
I got to cross position LT at 3:15 + 5second extra = 3:20 rush timing.
No scout for any of the protoss builds. For both sentry builds I stopped gas at exactly 100 for 1 sentry.
+ Show Spoiler +
Fast sentry
8 pylon
11 gateway
I chrono boosted my sentry and my zealot one time each. 2nd zealot was starting around 3:25 so I'll overestimate and say Protoss has 2zealots + sentry @ 3:20.
+ Show Spoiler +
Another fast sentry build
9pylon
12 Gate
@3:20 I had 1 sentry 1 zealot, 1 half done with chronoboost on gate, and 1 more starting.
Again overestimating you get 2 zealots + sentry @ 3:20.
+ Show Spoiler +
2gate zealots
No gas or core. I got out 6 zealots by 3:20. That seems like a lot especially if you bring probes too.
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nice example 
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EPT
