EPT[D] TvP Cheese rush overpowered? - Page 6
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
On March 14 2010 15:09 Floophead_III wrote: Honestly, you can't beat this without pulling all your probes, and you will lose a lot, but you'll be ahead and it's an easy win from there on out. There's no reason to change the game because this allin exists. It's a losing allin if scouted, and it's pretty hard to keep it from being spotted. You might as well proxy BBS. Not sure what you are talking about, against a good Terran micro, pulling prob does really do much since the Terran will just pull back and forth causing you to loose mining time. | ||
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Muirhead
United States556 Posts
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metaldragon
United States251 Posts
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On March 14 2010 15:28 Yamoth wrote: Not sure what you are talking about, against a good Terran micro, pulling prob does really do much since the Terran will just pull back and forth causing you to loose mining time. Force field behind him, kill him, you've won. | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
As for the TvP rush, I haven't tried it and I'm not really interested in trying it, seems pretty damn mindless to me, but I'm guessing it's pretty hard to beat, and the only reason for that is the new improved AI of peons | ||
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geno
United States1404 Posts
On March 14 2010 16:17 Fayth wrote: I don't believe they changed warpgate to fix PvP, WHY would you ever need to balance a mirror MU, it is already balanced by definition, it doesn't make sense at all that a warp gate rush would be unstoppable? As for the TvP rush, I haven't tried it and I'm not really interested in trying it, seems pretty damn mindless to me, but I'm guessing it's pretty hard to beat, and the only reason for that is the new improved AI of peons It has nothing to do with balance, it has to do with diversity and entertainment in the game. If only one build becomes viable, even if its clearly balanced because its a mirror, it makes the game very stale and uninteresting. | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
On March 14 2010 16:17 Fayth wrote: I don't believe they changed warpgate to fix PvP, WHY would you ever need to balance a mirror MU, it is already balanced by definition, it doesn't make sense at all that a warp gate rush would be unstoppable? Balance also means having a number of strats which are equally viable. | ||
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
On March 14 2010 16:17 Fayth wrote: If theres an rts game with just 1 faction, any set of unit stats is as good as any then?I don't believe they changed warpgate to fix PvP, WHY would you ever need to balance a mirror MU, it is already balanced by definition, it doesn't make sense at all that a warp gate rush would be unstoppable? If a mirror plays stupidly its as much a problem as with any matchup. As for the TvP rush, I haven't tried it and I'm not really interested in trying it, seems pretty damn mindless to me, but I'm guessing it's pretty hard to beat, and the only reason for that is the new improved AI of peons Thats a stupid simplification, like that would be the only thing changed from SC. Stats of every earlygame unit/building affects the rushes strength, not just AI of 1 unit. And its useless to blame the AI anyway, since the AI quite surely wont change. | ||
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Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
On March 14 2010 16:31 JohannesH wrote: If theres an rts game with just 1 faction, any set of unit stats is as good as any then? If a mirror plays stupidly its as much a problem as with any matchup. Thats a stupid simplification, like that would be the only thing changed from SC. Stats of every earlygame unit/building affects the rushes strength, not just AI of 1 unit. And its useless to blame the AI anyway, since the AI quite surely wont change. So then what is your solution? To nerf, the weakest race at the moment? It's most basic unit? I highly doubt this all-in is "invincible". You just have to scout it, and adjust accordingly like any all-in. They lose a lot of mining time while they traverse the map, not to mention if they have 1-2 rax AND OC, and they pull enough SCV to keep production you should be able to rape that. That is a lot of SCV/Marine missing from an All-in and coming late too. Look at SC I when Boxer pulled the SCV/Marine all-in on Yellow. He didn't wait around at all. First 3-4 marines and go. Stalkers also outrange Marines. Read that again: Stalkers outrange Marines. | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On March 14 2010 16:38 Rothbardian wrote: So then what is your solution? To nerf, the weakest race at the moment? It's most basic unit? I highly doubt this all-in is "invincible". You just have to scout it, and adjust accordingly like any all-in. They lose a lot of mining time while they traverse the map, not to mention if they have 1-2 rax AND OC, and they pull enough SCV to keep production you should be able to rape that. That is a lot of SCV/Marine missing from an All-in and coming late too. Look at SC I when Boxer pulled the SCV/Marine all-in on Yellow. He didn't wait around at all. First 3-4 marines and go. Stalkers also outrange Marines. Read that again: Stalkers outrange Marines. stalkers actually do negative damage. when you shoot a marine with a stalker it gains health. | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
On March 14 2010 16:29 cartoon]x wrote: Hmm... If you saw it coming, you could actually wall off your ramp with a pylon and rally your units inside your base. Then delay him with the stalkers that are outside your base. Let's say you leave enough room to wall it off with a single pylon. You scout his mass of workers moving across the map. You build the pylon and close the ramp, and it should complete by the time he arrives. Then, you could attempt to pick off marines with your stalkers while you dance around outside your base, delay him and keep building. By the time he kills the pylon you'll have some more guys, maybe enough to deal with him? Balance also means having a number of strats which are equally viable. The mass of marine will burn down that pylon in matter of seconds. Not to mention stalker does crap damage against marine. | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
What about building your cybernetics core / gateway at your ramp as an opening, and attempting to wall off the ramp with a third gateway instead of a pylon? | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
If you went stalkers, reinforcements shouldnt be a problem. You would pick those off if they tried to reinforce while you were harassing the marine ball. If you can delay him long enough to get cannons, he is at a disadvantage, since he has pulled workers off. | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
On March 14 2010 17:01 cartoon]x wrote: If they are firing on the gateway then you are firing on them with your stalkers. What part of stalker does crap damage against marine do you not understand. Seriously, do you even play the beta or are you just theory crafting? | ||
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