EPTPersonally i've always done this and gone valk against zerg for scouting and limiting their free overlord scouting.
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semantics
10040 Posts
Personally i've always done this and gone valk against zerg for scouting and limiting their free overlord scouting. | ||
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blith
Canada69 Posts
10 Overlord 10 Pool 9 Extractor 8-11 Drones 100% Pool 6 Lings (11-14) 14 Baneling Nest (should have enough minerals+gas right after pool - also try to hide tech behind mineral line) Lings hatch - scout, deny scout, harass, contain etc... Save 150 minerals - Queen (13-15) Save Minerals/Gas 100% Nest - hide 5 lings and morph Banelings for ambush, leave 1 ling to scout and lure. Overlord Drones 100 gas Lair Power Drones with Inject Larva 50% Lair - 2nd Gas Power Drones 100% Lair - BURROW then- proceed to mid-game by expanding, and/or hydra/spire tech) Just been doing this the last few games and its worked out so far, so I just want to share it with you guys  . Its not perfect, but I like Banelings and its just a good change from all the roach openings.Important Notes: HOPEFULLY he'll expect a roach rush if he spots your quick gas, try to kill the scout before putting down nest. Early lings to sort of panic the Terran, and more importantly: denying information. You can pretty much wipe out his army if you are in a good ambush position. But like I said some Terrans may not even suspect Banelings. If he turtles in 1 base and pushes out later - you'll have burrowed Banelings waiting for him. Make sure you scatter your banes though, so if he happens to scan in front of his base that he doesn't find all of them (burrow 2 outside his choke, burrow the other 3 further away). In mid-game you can expand freely and do whatever you want .I go for spire so I can see whats up. Hope this helps people, if not I'll work on it. | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
.... dunno what after Mass archon zealot vs zerg with phoenix to lift off pesky hydras running away or broodlords above cliffs. The idea is that in SC1 even though melee units (zealots) were stronger straight up against some ranged units (dragoons) the dragoons would just run away and shoot, being really really pesky, and the zealots would all be like wtf! Now when things run away, you use antigravity and SC2's superior spell casting system, to abuse the Thanks for this thread! | ||
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threehundred
Canada911 Posts
the build and plan was simple 10 overlord 13 pool 12 drone 13 extractor 3 on gas till 100 build drones till 16/18 build queen build overlord 18/18 take drones off gas at 100 build 2nd hatch beside main research speed pump lings and overlords cut drones completely when you have about 20 lings with speed just go all-in and destroy their nexus/commandcenter/hatchery and rally your hatcheries with lings pumping strategy: hit and run, never engage units unless you know you'll win, just kill the main resource gathering things and you'll run over them in the next few minutes bottomline is, the placement matches are pretty noob anyway, so if you want that lol-platinum division rank under your 2v2, im pretty sure zerg has it the easiest. | ||
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brocoli
Brazil264 Posts
Get assimilators fast. They are a part of the wall, and they cost only 75 minerals. Besides, you will need some gas. Do some micro vs the first zealots, but make sure you come back to block the holes behind mineral lines, etc. use every single building to protect your probes. You are teching to cannons ASAP. mind you'll probably lose a pylon. replace it preemptively. Start building a few sentries & stalkers from the inside. Then place cannons. Finally, if this madness works, tech to something. Phoenixes are a good opener vs robo. | ||
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quirk
Estonia12 Posts
This is a build that I am experimenting with. Because of time constraints I would like some feedback/testing from better players(I am in the bronze league). I haven't tested it enough so the timings might not be correct. The build(basic zerg opening): 9 Overlord 10-13 Drones 13 Extractor 12 Pool 100% Extractor send drones 100% Pool build Lair - My idea/hope would be that when the pool finishes you have 100 gas. Maybe it isn't that necessary to get exact amount/timing. After starting lair - make zerglings/drones as necessary, you could also expand at this time(I expanded). 100% Lair build Hydra den and a queen Mass hydras after....(I know that this isn't really a good goal, but this is as far as I had thought) I know the build isn't that detailed, but would like some feedback/replays from better players. The most obvious problem would be early rushes, because so far when I tried this build I had very few defenses (Mostly powered drones). Thank you for your time/feedback | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
I wanted to do this for a while but I'm on a business trip and I can't play any games for 2-3 weeks so all I can do is theorycraft =(. Basically it's just an add-on to the hellion opener except for faster hellions and a transition into reapers. Theory behind it is since zergs are kinda forced to block the hellion opening with roaches on the ramp, you might be able to exploit their mineral line by immediately teching to reapers. So essentially you will get reaper harass at their mineral line and hellion harass at their ramp. The build would be 10 rax 11 depot 11 gas 11 orbital 2 marines (try to use them to deny scouting drones and lings as much as possible) 1st 100 gas goes to factory (normally you can squeeze a 3rd rine in the 10depot/12rax build but you're really short on minerals with this build so you barely get enough minerals for a factory at 100 gas) 2nd 50 gas goes to reactor on rax immediately lift rax and build a tech lab after reactor is complete keep pumping hellions and maybe build 4ish reapers (not too sure about the number). With the 10/11/11/11 build, you get 2 hellions 30+ seconds faster than the standard 10depot/12rax build, this alone will probably throw off a lot of zerg's timings. I wanted to see if reapers could create any more havoc or if they arrive simply too late to do anything if zerg already has too many units. It would require a lot of multitasking (reapers, then hellions, as well as macroing). An alternative to harassing the mineral line with reapers is to target the natural hatchery (but be within range to just jump into their main if the roaches come down). This forces the zerg to make a decision of either coming down to get ur reapers (and potentially allowing hellions up his ramp and reapers up his ramp also) or just letting his hat die. If he charges down with a few roaches and still has some blocking his ramp, you could run your hellions away and jump your reapers into his main to harass his mineral line. You could even bring your first 2 marines to help kill the hatchery. Of course this won't outright kill a zerg, but hopefully you can cripple him enough as well as expand yourself and then just roll him afterwards with m/m (of course if he's going 1 base it won't be as effective, I'd still like to see how well it works against 1 base though). Almost like Bisu's corsair/dt multitask harass =P. | ||
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Mente
United States288 Posts
On March 12 2010 01:07 ArC_man wrote: Multitask intensive harass build TvZ: I wanted to do this for a while but I'm on a business trip and I can't play any games for 2-3 weeks so all I can do is theorycraft =(. Basically it's just an add-on to the hellion opener except for faster hellions and a transition into reapers. Theory behind it is since zergs are kinda forced to block the hellion opening with roaches on the ramp, you might be able to exploit their mineral line by immediately teching to reapers. So essentially you will get reaper harass at their mineral line and hellion harass at their ramp. The build would be 10 rax 11 depot 11 gas 11 orbital 2 marines (try to use them to deny scouting drones and lings as much as possible) 1st 100 gas goes to factory (normally you can squeeze a 3rd rine in the 10depot/12rax build but you're really short on minerals with this build so you barely get enough minerals for a factory at 100 gas) 2nd 50 gas goes to reactor on rax immediately lift rax and build a tech lab after reactor is complete keep pumping hellions and maybe build 4ish reapers (not too sure about the number). With the 10/11/11/11 build, you get 2 hellions 30+ seconds faster than the standard 10depot/12rax build, this alone will probably throw off a lot of zerg's timings. I wanted to see if reapers could create any more havoc or if they arrive simply too late to do anything if zerg already has too many units. It would require a lot of multitasking (reapers, then hellions, as well as macroing). An alternative to harassing the mineral line with reapers is to target the natural hatchery (but be within range to just jump into their main if the roaches come down). This forces the zerg to make a decision of either coming down to get ur reapers (and potentially allowing hellions up his ramp and reapers up his ramp also) or just letting his hat die. If he charges down with a few roaches and still has some blocking his ramp, you could run your hellions away and jump your reapers into his main to harass his mineral line. You could even bring your first 2 marines to help kill the hatchery. Of course this won't outright kill a zerg, but hopefully you can cripple him enough as well as expand yourself and then just roll him afterwards with m/m (of course if he's going 1 base it won't be as effective, I'd still like to see how well it works against 1 base though). Almost like Bisu's corsair/dt multitask harass =P. What does this build have to do with mutalisks? You say nothing about scouting. And if he's 1 base roaching you're pretty much screwed. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
Premise This build capitalizes on three things: + Tanks in SC2 have both higher DPS and greater range than their SC:BW counterparts (See this thread) + Ghosts with EMP absolutely annihilate Protoss forces, and, as icing on the cake, neutralize Immortal's special ability. + Bunker's are rapidly salvageable (I think for 100% return) Strategy The idea behind the build would be similar to Vulture + Mines + Tank from SC:BW. The major problems with this being effective in SC2 are generally thought to be lack of spider mines/vultures to deal with Zealots (particularly now sporting charge) and Immortals. To deal with this, I would love to see a Terran try to do the good old fashioned Tank line leapfrogging (preferably +1/ ) supported by a few scv's constructing bunkers (say 2-4 at any one given point in time, blocking off as much of the frontal approach to your tanks as possible). These would house marauders who would be aimed at keeping zealots/stalkers off of your tanks (their slowing attack would also probably give your tanks time to get an extra shot off. Either ravens or a flying barracks or something would be necessary to give you enough vision (particularly up cliffs) to prevent stalkers blink-bombing your tank line from out of sight/up cliffs. While setting up this push this would give the terran player time to expand; the only thing the T would have to be exceptionally careful of would be backstabs and protoss switching to air while his troops are committed to the tank line (ie from Warp Prisms or Colossi). However, with BW level scouting and perhaps even forgoing one MULE for a prescient scan mid-to-late game scan (which so far has been rarely seen in SC2), preventative measures could be taken in time to render any of these fairly ineffectual (a handful of vikings for example to deal with voidrays). Lategame, Ravens would probably be quite useful for autoturrent support/worker harassment and point-defense-drone (effectively D-Matrix) support for either your ground or viking force. Conclusions The main purpose of this build is to take away the Protoss' options both in terms of unit selection and map movement. This would be a micro/macro intensive build and would require constant scouting throughout to make sure the Protoss isn't committing to air (which is a winnable battle for the Terran if seen coming in advance, and would represent an enormous commitment for the Protoss) or trying to warp in DT into the opponents base. In fact a handful of 'patrol vikings' would probably be handy just to discourage warp prism/colossi cliff-walking shenanigans. In the end however, the Protoss is forced to try to break your marauder/tank/ghost line, which, with proper micro should hold against a food-equivalent Protoss ground force. Feedback/thoughts? Also, thanks again liquipedia guys for doing this! | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
On March 12 2010 01:50 Mente wrote: What does this build have to do with mutalisks? You say nothing about scouting. And if he's 1 base roaching you're pretty much screwed. "Multitask" as in doing multiple things at once not mutalisk. Ah I did forget about when to send scout SCV, should be after the depot but timings could be changed of course. 10/11/11/11 isn't such an uncommon build, you don't have to drastically change your scouting pattern because there's not much zerg can do early game that can really throw you off (and it's not like they can block their ramp off to prevent scout). And I already mentioned something about 1 base builds. Obviously the opening won't be as effective but I still like to see just how effective it could be against 1 base builds. Zerg would get roaches before hellions at his base, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's an auto-loss. He can't attack your base for fear off hellion backstab (and meanwhile you could just bunker up and he would be wasting his army) so you can comfortably expand and most likely be even with his expansion (which is a good thing). In SC1, doing a super fast vulture opening was a gimmicky all-in type of build where either you did tremendous damage to the zerg's econ or he scouted and was able to defend properly and you fell way behind in econ. In SC2 however, terran has the MULE to boost econ, terran also have much better ways of attacking enemy peon lines (hellions are better than vultures at attacking peons and reapers can just ignore basically any form of terrain barrier), and zerg's early game defense is much weaker (lings are weaker, spine crawlers suck, hellions can tank queens while chasing peons, and the queen has difficulty catching reapers). These reasons lead me to believe that opening with a super harass intensive opening can become one of the standard builds (I mean the hellion opening has already become almost standard). I think you came into this thread looking to bash on people's new builds so you briefly skimmed my post, misread some parts, and started attacking what you misread. Of course I'm not exactly sure what's going to happen in every scenario, I already mentioned that this is just theorycraft (unless you didn't read that part either). This thread was created so that new ideas could be put forth to test and become knowledge for the whole community, not shot down without a thought (unless it's something obviously atrocious). | ||
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RetroDeatRow
United States11 Posts
FD vs Z I guess people have recognized the immense power of Mech vs Zerg Tier 1. I played fairly standard (strong)FD against Zerg, with flamethrower upgrades instead of mines, ala SCBW. I went 2 refineries quickly, like 11 and 12; and had 4 SCVS alltogether mining gas. This should probably be adjusted variously to find the perfect fit, but the idea is to: SD Rax Refinery x2 Factory(@100 gas, duh!) Techlab @ Rax and transfer Completed Factory to it Reactor @ Rax pump rines 2 tanks & flamethrower upgrade (finish at same time) Transfer Factory to Reactor and double pump some Tykes Push and expand The rest is in the Micro: rines and tanks range Roaches (target fire), lings and hydras get burnt, Banelings? Well, I haven't fought them, but tanks can snipe 'em. Basically, some one needs to do the numbers and make this as quick as possible. It can probably be based off of a 9Rax, too, to stop them pesky quick expos. Make sure to build an armory asap after the expansion. Get 2 Thors, more tanks, a few more rines and hellions, and push again. And prob an engineering bay. As always, scouting is essential. ____________________________ TvP Now, I am really uneasy about this, but if 1 rine Marauders is the new FD against toss, the proper followup should be a raven or two and Vikings. Terran air is mobile, and Toss is left with a relatively slow ground force. How the tables have turned! Add some dropships and appropriate unit combos, and DONT FORGET THAT RAVEN SHIEDL! Stalkers are nullified by the new Raven spell; Zeals are nullified by Hellions. Collossus are nullified by Vyks. Hellions might be unessential, as MnM in you dropships with the Raven Sheild and Vyks should be enough to go expo sniping. I am unsure about the timing against Collossus, but it would be preferable to get a Raven before Vykings so as to kill observers in your base. And build energy for its shield spell. Raids on the Protoss base should be an option for the T player at multiple points in time. Many of Toss's units become obsolete because of this strategy. Templar could be quite powerful on stacked marines or Vyks, but I guess T as more options as well. TvP is a whole new game in SC2, but it looks as if TvZ is not unlike TvP of SC1. Sure, Z has more units than P did in SC1, but Siege Tanks do a bigger splash and kill Z units uber quick. Last note: Helleions can be quite viable in TvT. Use em like Lurkers against rines: run up real close to the marines and then let the flames fly. And the ashes fall. (Ha there is micro!) | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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TrayD
Finland23 Posts
-10 gas (1drone on gas) -10 over -14 pool(2 drones on gas) -16 over(3 drones on gas) | Pool is done about when overlord is ready | -16 queen -16 Zergling speed -Keep making zerglings You gotta Deny scouting with your first zerglings, then you make baneling nest, and send one zergling to his ramp to check what units he has -> 1.If he has alot of marines, make about 10 banelings at his natural and bust in 2.Alot marauders, just make 6 banelings, enough to destroy supply depot, and mass zerling own him. 3.Hellions, 6-8 banelings and bust in, and surround the hellions asap You should attack at 34/34 supply, push happens about below 7min marker. After that you make more lings, if its not working just expand. While you bust in after destroyin the depot wall, you can sneak few zerglings in to the side and morph them to banelings and destroy scv's completly, most of the cases he uses them to fight anyways. | ||
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Flicky
England2654 Posts
On March 15 2010 06:40 TrayD wrote: Early game bust in Zerg vs Terran -10 gas (1drone on gas) -10 over -14 pool(2 drones on gas) -16 over(3 drones on gas) | Pool is done about when overlord is ready | -16 queen -16 Zergling speed -Keep making zerglings You gotta Deny scouting with your first zerglings, then you make baneling nest, and send one zergling to his ramp to check what units he has -> 1.If he has alot of marines, make about 10 banelings at his natural and bust in 2.Alot marauders, just make 6 banelings, enough to destroy supply depot, and mass zerling own him. 3.Hellions, 6-8 banelings and bust in, and surround the hellions asap You should attack at 34/34 supply, push happens about below 7min marker. After that you make more lings, if its not working just expand. While you bust in after destroyin the depot wall, you can sneak few zerglings in to the side and morph them to banelings and destroy scv's completly, most of the cases he uses them to fight anyways. My friend was spamming these openings at me and they're pretty easy to defend if you just build one bunker and micro any hellions. | ||
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Mente
United States288 Posts
On March 12 2010 06:43 ArC_man wrote: "Multitask" as in doing multiple things at once not mutalisk. Ah I did forget about when to send scout SCV, should be after the depot but timings could be changed of course. 10/11/11/11 isn't such an uncommon build, you don't have to drastically change your scouting pattern because there's not much zerg can do early game that can really throw you off (and it's not like they can block their ramp off to prevent scout). And I already mentioned something about 1 base builds. Obviously the opening won't be as effective but I still like to see just how effective it could be against 1 base builds. Zerg would get roaches before hellions at his base, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's an auto-loss. He can't attack your base for fear off hellion backstab (and meanwhile you could just bunker up and he would be wasting his army) so you can comfortably expand and most likely be even with his expansion (which is a good thing). In SC1, doing a super fast vulture opening was a gimmicky all-in type of build where either you did tremendous damage to the zerg's econ or he scouted and was able to defend properly and you fell way behind in econ. In SC2 however, terran has the MULE to boost econ, terran also have much better ways of attacking enemy peon lines (hellions are better than vultures at attacking peons and reapers can just ignore basically any form of terrain barrier), and zerg's early game defense is much weaker (lings are weaker, spine crawlers suck, hellions can tank queens while chasing peons, and the queen has difficulty catching reapers). These reasons lead me to believe that opening with a super harass intensive opening can become one of the standard builds (I mean the hellion opening has already become almost standard). I think you came into this thread looking to bash on people's new builds so you briefly skimmed my post, misread some parts, and started attacking what you misread. Of course I'm not exactly sure what's going to happen in every scenario, I already mentioned that this is just theorycraft (unless you didn't read that part either). This thread was created so that new ideas could be put forth to test and become knowledge for the whole community, not shot down without a thought (unless it's something obviously atrocious). My bad with the original reading comprehension but that didn't detract from the main points that I mentioned. Theorycrafting isn't a bad thing. But this thread was about builds people have designed and seemed to work and wanted to be tried out in more than one instance. Speedlings early on really shut down the hellion harrass even if he fast expands. So do spine crawlers. Same thing applies to reapers. And wasting all that time/gas on reapers is completely counter productive early on. In regards to your sc 1 comment opening mech in tvz didn't put you too far behind economically as you could still almost safely expand after opening with vults (i.e., most of the time the zerg was behind economically as most of them open 2 hatch muta against terran). Goliaths plus the time that the vultures bought was enough to throw down turrets and keep you safe. And I didn't come in this thread to base people's builds. I came in to post some of my own and try out what people thought. I'm allowed to give my 2 cents as this is an open forum and help steer people in the right direction. | ||
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Topazas
Lithuania86 Posts
On February 25 2010 14:01 semantics wrote: I wish they could burrow though cliffs that would be hilarious make tunnels! That would be stupid. | ||
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Volshok
United States349 Posts
On March 15 2010 05:37 obesechicken13 wrote: Hunter seeker and emp vs toss... Want to see if this is imba... Not to discredit the idea; Ghost 200, Raven 200, Fusion Reactor 150, Seeker Missile Research 150. That's 700 gas, just to get setup for the initial use. I could see it be viable if you were somehow made of gas, but the majority of the time, the game is already over by the time you reach such a level. SM is effective on it's own because it ignores mitigation, so Guardian Shield / Hardened Shield does nothing against it. | ||
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MeditationError
Australia60 Posts
It looks to me like zerg has nothing that can hit a point defence drone (sc2armoury and liquipedia agree that nothing that can hit air is immune to the drone), so I'd like to see point defense abused against zerg: defense drone + banshee queen/hatchery hunting. ravens + tanks & marines as a hydralisk counter. ravens + vikings: fly in, kill overlords, fly out. Just general terran air with defense drones against zerg. | ||
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SarcasticOne
Australia213 Posts
On March 07 2010 09:00 threehundred wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=114689 + Show Spoiler + THE T v TPZ STANDARD BUILD ORDER VS EVERYTHING IS AS FOLLOWS <3 Now I'm no Platinum Player, nor DO i actually have a BETA KEY (I play on my friends account that is in GOLD LEAGUE), I play about 8-20 games every few days and I believe I have about a 75% win ratio against most players at this 'matchmaking' level. 10 supply SCV finishes and scouts ASAP 12 barracks SCV finishes and builds supply wall (2nd depot) 14 refinery 2 SCVs on gas (don't take any off you need it for next few steps) 15-16 orbital command you should have exactly around 150 minerals and SCV just finishing 2nd supply around this time that SCV that built the barracks 1 marine usually against scouting worker ----- MULE ASAP AND AS MUCH AS YOU CAN 18-20 command center all your economy at this point is waiting for 400 minerals to build a command center ----- 2ND BARRACKS 3RD BARRACKS these 3 barracks should complete JUST in-time against some early game all-ins, or at least those that i've seen so far ----- ENGINEERING BAY 1. bio is STRONG from start to finish against all races 2. early upgrades means TIMING PUSHES +1/+1 3. turret(s) deters dark templar rushes 4. turret(s) deters cloaked banshees when your orbital command energy is down from mules 5. PLANETARY FORTRESS EXPO strategy to follow ----- 2ND refinery ----- (on your barracks obviously, you should have enough gas by now from harvesting earlier) TECHLAB REACTOR REACTOR ----- +1 ATTACK TO INFANTRY WEAPONS ----- MACRO PRODUCE 4 MARINES AND 1 MARAUDER UNTIL YOU CAN MOVE OUT ----- SECURING YOUR EXPO AS YOU MOVE OUT: Obviously your experience comes into play here as to how many units you need to defend this critical movement. Basic guidelines as follows: If you scouted more tier one production facilities then he'll have more combat units PROBABLY as you move out. the number and timing of his units coming in obviously depends on his race, unit choices and building locations (proxy buildings too) 1. A spare SCV can run to his base if you want to be extra safe, or you can scan 2. land command center at natural and build a PLANETARY FORTRESS 3. I transfer about 6-8 SCV, someone will probably do the math on it one day 4. Build 1 turret at least and 1-2 bunkers 5. MAP CONSIDERATIONS - double entrances should be scouted / visioned accordingly - stronger choke points need lesser bunkers / probably no need for a planetary fortress if you want to be macro greedy with mules or ready with scans Thoughts on planetary fortress: It's just too good against most TIER 1 unit rushes during this timing. You can repair and micro your SCV and they'll give up on your expo and just try breaking your ramp which can be unit blocked by your ground army/walls anyway. Although it is NOT NECESSARY to have a planetary fortress if you scout a lesser early aggressive build anyway, most of the time just building it deters many early attacks anyway (especially stubborn players that choose to get slaughtered causing them to lose the game losing so many units) ----- CONTINUE PRODUCING SCVS / MACRO WAVES OF UNITS 4 MARINES 1 MARAUDER UNTIL YOUR CHOKE POINT 'FEELS SECURE' ----- +1 ARMOR TO INFANTRY RESEARCH STIMPACK ----- 3RD refinery ----- FACTORY FACTORY REACTOR STARPORT STARPORT ON FACTORY REACTOR ------ MACRO WAVES OF 4 MARINES 1 MARAUDER AND 2 MEDIVACS I usually push out after 4 medivacs, by that time +1/+1 and STIM should be done WHEN YOU GET THE ENEMY'S BASE/EXPO with MARINE shields to follow. It's roughly 9-10minutes into the game when I'm at their front door or getting through the backdoor. ------ From here either the game ends with me winning a timing push or winning map control. This same build has worked against all races so far, except some good roach all-in builds that get in through the backdoor that I've been working to be more weary of. The critical point of any FE build anyway is your lack of units to counter quick backdooring during your expo setup and I advise you change your builds on these maps. Like lol blistering sands with the stupid rock formation that is 10 units wide that allows 10 roaches in within the first 5+ minutes. ------ Some race dependent deviations: 4TH BARRACKS WITH REACTOR or TECHLAB - TvT i just mass more marines - TvP techlab to get GHOSTS if he gets a quick colussus - TvZ more marauders if he goes with banelings FACTORY WITH REACTOR - TvZ hellions work well to kite banelings and can be macro'ed just as well with 4 marines, 1 marauder and 2 medivacs, you can also macro this during your first push off of your 2 bases STARPORT WITH TECHLAB - TvZ mid-late game i think it's the must have AoE if he's better at macro, i've failed though remember to use Ravens effectively is exactly the commandcenter -> planetary fortress build i use TvALL i opt for 2 barracks built right after the command center to keep up in unit macro, and you really won't be far behind in unit production anyway given most map timings i've found this to be very effective also =) im hardly a SC pro, but i have just won 6/6 using this (5 "practice matches" and 1 placement match) | ||
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