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And G
Germany491 Posts
![[image loading]](http://abload.de/img/thepathnottakenlargeqtln9.png) 1v1 152 x 144 10 regular bases 3 gold bases 8 desctructible rocks EU | NA | KR This map was inspired by Habitation Station and Scrap Station. So I made another map with backdoor expansions, but this time the textures aren't just shades of grey. I had written a paragraph that was supposed to explain all the weird stuff but it was under 1000 words so I made a picture instead: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://abload.de/img/tpnt1obuh.png) GLHF! | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
The blue-ish textures are kinda ugly in the overview but most of the time it looks nicer in game. Why do you love white and red cristals so much ? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
In particular: The big rocks from the gold to the middle seem to make the gold base a very safe third option for Terran. And the ones at the ramp from that leads into the space between the third and the natural as well, given how narrow all other ramps are. The bottom area looks very interesting, but on the same page feels very useless with how many expansions are around the main area. People are probably not going to expand down their, safe of the well done hidden gold base. I'd remove one of the bases you describe as "easy third for Protoss", "easy 4th for Zerg" and "forward 3rd for Terran". With the gold base, the forward 3rd and the safe third, you already have 3 third base options. And the easy 4th doesn't really feel easier than just taking the gold or the forward third as Zerg, which also makes for 3 4th options (given you haven't taken one of those as third, which would then leave the easy third as 4th option). Otherwise it looks like a good map. Love the useage of creep and vision blockers and the watchtower! Like the aesthetics but could use some more polishing in that regard. | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
On October 12 2014 23:48 Big J wrote: In particular: The big rocks from the gold to the middle seem to make the gold base a very safe third option for Terran. That's not a problem, that's a feature ! | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
The only other thing I dislike is the unbuildable zone instead of rocks ; you deny players the possibilty of making a building there once the rocks are down for no apparent reason. Edit : also best map name since a very long time | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24229 Posts
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Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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And G
Germany491 Posts
On October 12 2014 23:40 algue wrote: I don't like the rocks at 5 and 7 o'clock though. Problem is that without them you can't realistically defend an early natural at the forward ramp. The way it is now, if you can't go up that narrow ramp you either need to break down some rocks or take the looooong way around the bottom part of the map. On October 12 2014 23:40 algue wrote: Why do you love white and red cristals so much ? Because it doesn't take a lot of work filling unpathable areas with them. I don't care much about aesthetics to be honest... On October 12 2014 23:48 Big J wrote: I think there are too many rocks on the map that cover against attacks before being taken down. In particular: The big rocks from the gold to the middle seem to make the gold base a very safe third option for Terran. And the ones at the ramp from that leads into the space between the third and the natural as well, given how narrow all other ramps are. The bottom area looks very interesting, but on the same page feels very useless with how many expansions are around the main area. People are probably not going to expand down their, safe of the well done hidden gold base. I'd remove one of the bases you describe as "easy third for Protoss", "easy 4th for Zerg" and "forward 3rd for Terran". With the gold base, the forward 3rd and the safe third, you already have 3 third base options. And the easy 4th doesn't really feel easier than just taking the gold or the forward third as Zerg, which also makes for 3 4th options (given you haven't taken one of those as third, which would then leave the easy third as 4th option). Consider that it is very easy for Zerg to spread creep towards the bottom because the rocks will keep Hellions confined to the central areas. I feel that the best option for Zerg (in ZvT at least) is to expand towards the bottom and then maybe take the bottom gold as a fifth. On October 13 2014 00:47 [PkF] Wire wrote: Speedlings won't really mind taking the "sneaky, sneaky" path. Before any of the rocks are broken down you can defend at the fourth where the bottom pathway ends with a handful of units as long as you have sentries. It's a very narrow ramp; as long as you know when the speedlings will be coming you'll be fine. On October 12 2014 23:52 OtherWorld wrote: The only other thing I dislike is the unbuildable zone instead of rocks ; you deny players the possibilty of making a building there once the rocks are down for no apparent reason. I could easily replace that with unbuildable rocks if it's a problem. But serious question: When would you ever want to build anything there? Also, poll. Poll: Backdoor gold bases on The Path Not Taken? No changes. (10) Remove the backdoor to the main and the rocks at the wide ramp. (4) Make it a regular base. (3) Add unbuildable rocks at the base location (less health). (2) Remove the rocks at the wide ramp. (1) Add destructible rocks at the base location. (0) Add creep at the base location (like on Arkanoid). (0) Remove the backdoor to the main. (0) 20 total votes Your vote: Backdoor gold bases on The Path Not Taken? (Vote): No changes. Keep in mind that in TvZ it will be very difficult to prevent overlords spreading creep at the gold before vikings or medivacs are out, and that mutalisks are very strong before the rocks at the ramp to the main have been broken down. So I feel that Terrans either need to float their second CC there (which seems risky) or will be forced to choose between a normal third and a delayed gold third. Or you could go for some sort of two-base all-in that wouldn't be an all-in because even if it failed the gold base might pull you back into the game. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24229 Posts
On October 13 2014 01:35 And G wrote: Before any of the rocks are broken down you can defend at the fourth where the bottom pathway ends with a handful of units as long as you have sentries. It's a very narrow ramp; as long as you know when the speedlings will be coming you'll be fine. I just tried it. It's unwallable ; both the ramps are quite big and the sneaky path is always a danger. Consider at least making the natural "sim city-able" (it's quite close to already be, just remove the space to wall near the geysers) or reducing the size of the backdoor ramp. As the map stands, I don't see how I can, as Protoss, safely expand in PvZ. EDIT : maybe the sneaky path is too long for my concerns to be backed with something real, but if it is, then this path is just useless, which wouldn't be a good thing either. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Hm, given how the base is backdoor to the main and additionally still has a ramp after breaking down the rocks I feel like it makes the whole 3base Terran setup nearly inpenetrable. From there on, there are still 2bases that play out very easy. I think like that basedenying becomes too hard for zerg and well, that is the current ZvT wincondition in macro games. | ||
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rgbAndraxxus
32 Posts
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And G
Germany491 Posts
On October 13 2014 02:06 [PkF] Wire wrote: Consider at least making the natural "sim city-able" (it's quite close to already be, just remove the space to wall near the geysers) or reducing the size of the backdoor ramp. As the map stands, I don't see how I can, as Protoss, safely expand in PvZ. Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, here's what is (I think) the shortest completely tight wall you can do: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://abload.de/img/terrain060m4unt.jpg) The space you want removed is where the pylon is, is that correct? Also, how would reducing the size of the backdoor ramp help? I mean, it's protected by two sets of rocks... | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
Just theory crafting here but couldn't a Terran lift to the gold and then go cc first without being penalised (versus non terrans) as they're protected by the rocks? | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On October 13 2014 01:35 And G wrote: I could easily replace that with unbuildable rocks if it's a problem. But serious question: When would you ever want to build anything there? Hmm you sometimes see Terran 2-raxing and killing the rocks to wall in the Zerg ; a Protoss could also want to place a pylon there ; a Zerg a spine in ZvZ ; a Terran a bunker in case of huge all-in from the opponent... I dunno, yes it is not a "normal" place to put a building down, but I don't see the point in preventing the players to build there. It's not a big deal though | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 13 2014 02:55 iHirO wrote: That spoiler was great! Just theory crafting here but couldn't a Terran lift to the gold and then go cc first without being penalised (versus non terrans) as they're protected by the rocks? Yeah, but how do you take the expansion then? There's gonna be units inside your former mainbase with highground advantage while you just start your production/tech after the CC first and then need to take down rocks. | ||
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And G
Germany491 Posts
On October 13 2014 02:59 OtherWorld wrote: Hmm you sometimes see Terran 2-raxing and killing the rocks to wall in the Zerg ; a Protoss could also want to place a pylon there ; a Zerg a spine in ZvZ ; a Terran a bunker in case of huge all-in from the opponent... I dunno, yes it is not a "normal" place to put a building down, but I don't see the point in preventing the players to build there. It's not a big deal though I haven't seen any of that actually happen in like forever. Pylons, spines and bunkers are usually placed on the other side of the ramp, where Protoss would wall off if they wall at the Nexus, right? The 2-rax wall-in makes sense, but I've never seen that actually happen, either. On October 13 2014 02:55 iHirO wrote: Just theory crafting here but couldn't a Terran lift to the gold and then go cc first without being penalised (versus non terrans) as they're protected by the rocks? Do you mean floating your initial CC over there and then re-taking your main base with a CC first? One problem would be that the point of floating the main base to the gold as on Habitation Station or Metalopolis is usually to put on early pressure, but that sort of requires that your marines can walk across the map to do damage, which isn't really possible until the rocks at the wide ramps are down or you have medivacs, right? Also, as long as the rocks on the small ramp exist I don't see how you're going to defend oracles or mutalisks on two bases. Plus the scouting drone/probe can just stay in your main base and keep your second CC from landing, or maybe do a pylon block / proxy hatch. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm pretty sure (read in Kaelaris' voice) that it wouldn't become standard if this map were on ladder. | ||
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iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
On October 13 2014 03:14 And G wrote: Do you mean floating your initial CC over there, and then re-take your main base with a CC first? One problem would be that the point of floating the main base to the gold as on Habitation Station or Metalopolis is usually to put on early pressure, but that sort of requires that your marines can walk across the map to do damage, which isn't really possible until the rocks at the wide ramps are down or you have medivacs, right? Also, as long as the rocks on the small ramp exist I don't see how you're going to defend oracles or mutalisks on two bases. Plus the scouting drone/probe can just stay in your main base and keep your second CC from landing, or maybe do a pylon block / proxy hatch. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm pretty sure (read in Kaelaris' voice) that it wouldn't become standard if this map were on ladder. You could build the second CC straight away but leave it parked at the gold for double mules/scv production, while the rax are building. I guess a chronoed out mothership core would probably hit the gold mineral line before there were sufficient marines to defend it, so maybe it would only be viable in TvZ. | ||
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And G
Germany491 Posts
On October 13 2014 03:20 iHirO wrote: You could build the second CC straight away but leave it parked at the gold for double mules/scv production, while the rax are building. Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose? I mean, mules don't mine any faster at gold bases, and what are you going to do with your few marines? Break down the rocks? Meanwhile, Zerg go triple hatch before pool which would totally work because you effectively only need to defend one 2-width ramp on four bases. Or they go one-base muta and straight up kill you... | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On October 13 2014 03:14 And G wrote: I haven't seen any of that actually happen in like forever. Pylons, spines and bunkers are usually placed on the other side of the ramp, where Protoss would wall off if they wall at the Nexus, right? The 2-rax wall-in makes sense, but I've never seen that actually happen, either. I've seen the 2-rax thingy this year, I believe it was a Maru game. Not sure I'm going to find it though | ||
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