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Work In Progress Melee Maps - Page 98

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Keep our forum clean! PLEASE post your WIP melee maps in this thread for initial feedback. -Barrin
TheFlexN
Profile Joined March 2012
Israel472 Posts
January 22 2014 20:18 GMT
#1941
On January 23 2014 01:22 MarcusRife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2014 19:21 TheFlexN wrote:
You will have to add more ways to get to the middle and add more paths around the map if you want to make the bridges permanently closed, these can be 4 free expansions for terran eventually, or an auto win for terran in base races. Its an interesting concept, but I would be happier to see that if you destroy it, the bridge closes, but it spawns a new building with same HP that you can destroy again and it will open the bridge, and have this thing repeating.


Where are these 4 free expansions? Any 4 base combination is rather spread out.

Kill a bridge and float cc to a base. In base race scenario - make sure you kill all bridges 1st, float everything to the middle.
An Esports fan, playing SC2 and LoL because they are fun. Huge fan of mapmaking, Cloud Kingdom = best map ever made EVER.
MarcusRife
Profile Joined March 2011
343 Posts
January 22 2014 20:41 GMT
#1942
On January 23 2014 03:27 moskonia wrote:
That looks like an awesome concept! Is the map uploaded to EU? Would love to test it.


Yes, map name is Kolyma.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-22 22:57:54
January 22 2014 22:56 GMT
#1943
Cool ideas rife. The nat2nat looks rather short, idk. And there is not a good option for a 3rd that doesn't keep you relatively close to the opponent. 4k/3armor is going to last quite a long time, I think you should reduce it a bit. It'd be nice to see players using the map as early as possible, like incorporating the timing of the bridge kill into a FE build order. It might also be a nice touch to include shield/repair on the control structures so you can interdict another player's attempted bridge closure and then depend on the bridge to recover, especially if you defend the spot. The location of the structures already gives them some protection.

Do you have a trigger that kills/moves the units on the bridge when the structure is killed? This was the main impediment I had to bridge usage, because I couldn't figure out the best way of handling this case.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
MarcusRife
Profile Joined March 2011
343 Posts
January 22 2014 23:55 GMT
#1944
On January 23 2014 07:56 EatThePath wrote:
Cool ideas rife. The nat2nat looks rather short, idk. And there is not a good option for a 3rd that doesn't keep you relatively close to the opponent. 4k/3armor is going to last quite a long time, I think you should reduce it a bit. It'd be nice to see players using the map as early as possible, like incorporating the timing of the bridge kill into a FE build order. It might also be a nice touch to include shield/repair on the control structures so you can interdict another player's attempted bridge closure and then depend on the bridge to recover, especially if you defend the spot. The location of the structures already gives them some protection.

Do you have a trigger that kills/moves the units on the bridge when the structure is killed? This was the main impediment I had to bridge usage, because I couldn't figure out the best way of handling this case.


The rush distances are a little short. Not as short as Steppes of War but shorter than is standard these days. But, because the bridges can be killed the players can counteract this. The kill time on the structures is something that needs to be thought about. I figured twice as long to kill rocks to permanently close a path sounded reasonable but it may need to be adjusted. Any units caught on the bridge when it retracts are killed.

As far interdicting on closing bridges the players will just have to fight that out through normal means. That is part of the reason why I like making it permanent. Otherwise there is less incentive to care about a bridge being closed.
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
January 23 2014 00:05 GMT
#1945
[image loading]

Asymmetrical map design:
Top left has smaller nat choke and a ramp, but is more vulnerable to drops to the main. Bottom right has main that is much harder to defend versus blink and reapers, but lategame has a much better base layout, being able to defend 4 and a half bases from the half base, and deny the 9 base for the opponent.
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
January 24 2014 07:11 GMT
#1946
Just made something incredibly stupid. Any changes I could make to get it to actually work?

The center path is generally about 2 tiles wide, and its ramp into the main has been narrowed to sqrt(2) tiles wide (about half the width of the smallest ordinary ramp) - narrow enough that only 1-2 units can fit sideways at a time, allowing even zerg to have a strong defender's advantage on top of the ramp with a concave of short-ranged units.

[image loading]
vibeo gane,
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 14:45:23
January 24 2014 14:45 GMT
#1947
too difficult to take a 4th base @NegativeZero
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
January 26 2014 00:16 GMT
#1948
interesting for sure but 2 alternative entrances and a cliff behind main is a bit to overkill on gimmicks for my feelings.
"Not you."
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-26 08:01:50
January 26 2014 08:00 GMT
#1949
@negativezero: I think you can do better with the same concept but more interesting / integrated layout. You gave me a lot of inspiration and now I'm making something very similar that I'll post soon.


@moskonia: I just don't understand the point of asymmetric maps, other than they're kinda fun. What sort of feedback are you looking for?
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
January 26 2014 21:54 GMT
#1950
On January 26 2014 17:00 EatThePath wrote:
@moskonia: I just don't understand the point of asymmetric maps, other than they're kinda fun. What sort of feedback are you looking for?

Asymmetric maps are very different from normal maps, since each player not only has the race difference (most of the time), but also a different base layout, thus increasing the strategy potential. I want feedback on how I managed the layout, having a balanced asymmetrical design should be incredibly hard, and it was barely done so it is pretty hard to compare a new map idea to known good maps.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
January 30 2014 19:33 GMT
#1951
@mosk: Everything is relatively equivalent even though it's not technically symmetrical, which is good I suppose. But it begs the question, what key differences are there that result in different strategies/tactics? Because you minimize these things to preserve parity as much as possible, or give loosely equivalent features. In the case of non mirror match, the matchup already has asymmetries that will make the terrain be used differently by either side. In the case of mirror match, it's just imbalanced, even if it might be very close and/or take a long time to understand which side is favored.

@negativezero: This is what I came up with given the prompt "how can I make this work?" after a few tries to make things fit properly. I really like the idea of the shortcut leading to an optional gold 3rd. I didn't include a backdoor in my version but I thought about it. I didn't bother to put the doodads in to make the precisely narrow shortcut path but you can just imagine them there. The rush is 105 via shortcut and 165 via long way.

[image loading]
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
January 30 2014 19:44 GMT
#1952
In maps like Whirwind there is already asymmetrical positions in close spawns, so basically it already exists, so why not make it into a 2 player map to remove the annoying luck factor (the scout pattern) and keep the interesting luck factor (the different strategy). I understand that you don't see why is it good, but I think having vastly different map designs is important, even if in reality it doesn't make much of a difference, having a map like that in the map pool from time to time can spice things up.

About the map layout you made, I think you can siege up the main from the half 3rd, don't know if that was intentional or not. Overall map design looks solid, golds are in a perfect position imo, hard to take and defend.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
January 30 2014 19:53 GMT
#1953
I don't think you can hit the CC from the lowground, but a few mineral patches on that side only. Imagine adjusted as needed. ^^

Well I actually agree that there should be very different maps in a pool and even (especially?) things players and some viewers won't like. In theory I appreciate the idea of asymmetrical designs as offering primarily spiciness, but I just think it should be done with very clear intentions and design goals. And I think that asymmetric maps out of all maps should have extremely strong concepts.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
January 30 2014 20:12 GMT
#1954
Attacking the CC is not an issue if only 1 or 2 can hit (well it is an issue, but not a huge one), hitting the mineral line is a very big issue, since it is very hard to hold for Zerg players, since they rely on melee or short ranged units at the start and you can potentially deny the main from mining using 1 or 2 tanks and a few marines.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
January 30 2014 21:01 GMT
#1955
On January 31 2014 05:12 moskonia wrote:
Attacking the CC is not an issue if only 1 or 2 can hit (well it is an issue, but not a huge one), hitting the mineral line is a very big issue, since it is very hard to hold for Zerg players, since they rely on melee or short ranged units at the start and you can potentially deny the main from mining using 1 or 2 tanks and a few marines.

All the way back there though? Are you thinking of a drop later, or a 1base attack?
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
January 31 2014 05:07 GMT
#1956
Both, you use a drop to get them there and then for vision.
greenroom
Profile Joined February 2012
United States20 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-01 22:47:25
February 01 2014 22:47 GMT
#1957
Trying to come up with a good map layout:

[image loading]

The playable size is around 164:164.

Main Features:
-Open middle
-Lots of small ramps to (hopefully) encourage breaking up deathballs
-3rd is easily harassed from the high ground
-Small path around the perimeter of the map, easily ambushed from the middle and sides

Any thoughts?
TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
February 01 2014 22:50 GMT
#1958
Make the natural tighter and consider making one of the 3rd bases more defensible. The main has too much surface area for blink ins imo.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
February 02 2014 06:13 GMT
#1959
@greenroom: Agreed with what TheFish7 said. Also, the map as a whole is too big. Try shrinking the playable size to around 140x140 or so and reducing the size of the main, nat, center high ground, and whatever else is necessary to fit everything in. And finally, the main ramps should be diagonal for walling purposes.
vibeo gane,
greenroom
Profile Joined February 2012
United States20 Posts
February 02 2014 18:09 GMT
#1960
When you say to make the natural tighter, do you mean I should make the whole thing thinner or that I should just make the natural cliff less exposed? How would you go about doing that?

And thank you both for the feedback, it's appreciated! I'll see what I can change around.
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