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[M] 6m Devolution by Barrin - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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RumbleBadger
Profile Joined July 2011
322 Posts
March 21 2012 20:15 GMT
#41
On March 22 2012 04:46 Barrin wrote:
btw, whatthefat did a really nice battle report on this map a few days ago

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321242&currentpage=34#661

Show nested quote +
On March 18 2012 11:57 whatthefat wrote:
Having watched and played several games on these maps yesterday and today, I'd like to summarize my thoughts at this stage.

At my level (high diamond), I feel like the character of the game is not immensely different. I mean, the timings are wonky and it takes much longer to reach max, but it's still essentially still one large army slamming into another at some point.

However, I did get to watch some master level games yesterday, and I've included a battle report below for a particularly entertaining game between BlingLing (T) and babysimba (Z) that I think showcases the potential for this change. (Thanks to both players for such a fun game!)

babysimba opened with a 15 hatch, while BlingLing went 14 CC.

[image loading]

On spotting the CC, babysimba made the excellent decision to take a third before pool.

[image loading]

With both players beginning to macro up, BlingLing pushed into the Zerg natural with a handful of marines off two barracks. With some good marine control, he managed to inflict some minor damage, killing a morphing spine, killing 4 lings, and getting home with his damaged marines. However, he did not spot the Zerg third.

[image loading]

BlingLing teched to siege tanks and threw down two more barracks. He also added a couple of missile turrets, possibly fearing 8 minute mutas (which are quite frightening if Zerg takes both high yield gases quickly). However, babysimba had delayed Lair in favor of droning and amassing lings. With map control established, babysimba teched to infestors, while Blingling took the gasless third.

With a medivac out, BlingLing pushed across the map.

[image loading]

Baneling nest was complete, but not baneling speed. babysimba did a reasonable job of cleaning up the pressure, but some cute drop micro and excellent tank spread ensured the Terran forces did some damage.

[image loading]

While this engagement was playing out, both players had taken their fourth bases, and Zerg had started a Hive, and amassed a good group of infestors. At the 15 minute mark, both players were around 130 supply. You might note this is a little low given the appearance of the minimap, with both players comfortably on 4 bases, Zerg on Hive tech, and Terran taking a fifth. This is of course a direct effect of the reduced mineral patches.

[image loading]

At this point, things started to get very interesting. Both players began to split their main army into small hit squads, each trying to take advantage of the other's distributed bases. Simultaneous engagements occurred in the chokepoint to Terran's natural, and along the bottom path of the map.

[image loading]

In the meantime, BlingLing snuck 4 marines into the Zerg third to pick off creep tumors, while babysimba pushed back into the Terran chokepoint with a group of lings.

[image loading]

With the dust barely settled on that skirmish, another began below, with babysimba using some clever burrow tactics to ambush and fungal a group of marines.

[image loading]

At the 18 minute mark, Zerg decided it was time to spend his huge bank, and dumped it into 7 ultralisks, bringing both players to about 150 supply.

Terran next attempted a drop on the Zerg fifth. It was quickly spotted, but the distraction allowed BlingLing to move into a strong highground position, cutting off Zerg's sixth. Considering the position too tenuous, he unsieged and maneuvered this force to rejoin his main army.

[image loading]

Terran's macro was now starting to pull slightly ahead, with a supply lead of about 30. That might sound really bad for a Zerg in a ZvT. But in this reduced resource version of the game, falling behind in supply does not seem to be quite as grim. From my limited experience, there seem to be more opportunities to pull oneself back into the game now that the macro moves at along at a more reasonable pace.

With both armies jockeying for position in the middle, Terran dropped the Zerg seventh and sent another two hit squads to simultaneously attack Zerg's third and sixth bases. As these distractions pulled the Zerg forces away from the center, Terran pushed ever closer to the Zerg natural.

[image loading]

As Zerg cleared up the multiple harassments, Terran attempted to reposition his army to higher ground. But the Zerg forces were able to intercept before the tanks were sieged.

[image loading]

While Zerg was able to take out several siege tanks, the ultralisks had insufficient support and melted under the marine fire.

Terran immediately sent a small group to deny any further attempts to expand to the top of the map, while pulling back his main force to consolidate his lead.

[image loading]

In response, Zerg counter-attacked Terran's south-most base.

[image loading]

Without infestor support, Terran's marines were able to clean up the attack, with Zerg trading reasonably.

[image loading]

Zerg's economy was now crippled, with Terran taking an annoying position behind the mineral line at Zerg's fifth base. However, Terran was down to 34 SCVs, and Zerg had cleverly blocked Terran's main mining base with a burrowed zergling.

[image loading]
[image loading]

Seeing a chance to equalize, Zerg pushed through the center with ultralisks supported by infestors, reducing both players to 140 supply.

[image loading]

Both players were fighting valiantly, seemingly able to just continue fighting indefinitely all over the map. The amount of action had naturally disrupted Zerg's macro, however, and he did not have enough larvae to spend his bank of 1300 minerals and 1300 gas before the next engagement.

With the game now in a delicate state of balance, BlingLing was able to clear up the remaining ultralisks, and catch the vital infestors out of position before they could escape.

[image loading]

With BlingLing in a commanding position, babysimba was forced to gg.

[image loading]

Those of us observing were extremely impressed, and grateful to the players for putting on such a good show.


This is delightful. Sentences like, "With both armies jockeying for position in the middle, Terran dropped the Zerg seventh and sent another two hit squads to simultaneously attack Zerg's third and sixth bases," really show the positive effects of 6m1hyg.

For those worrying about gas steals, I think people will just take gases earlier, so a scouting drone won't get there in time to gas steal. If your minerals are saturated on 12 drones, people will probably get gas around 9 or 10 supply. Even a 7 scout probably won't be there to gas steal at that point.

Also, I really like the more choky feel the map has, because the smaller armies then can maneuver really nicely around and do all the harassing like in the replay described above. ^^ I really hope this catches on.
Games before dames.
Mamoru
Profile Joined October 2011
Spain24 Posts
March 21 2012 20:29 GMT
#42
I think, that thing is a great idea.

When i buy sc2 i want this was like bw, but nowadays income per base is higher in sc2 then i think balance this is best idea for look like bw.

In my opinion, gas steal problem is because only cost 75 minerla, in bw i think is 100, that is correct? I think if this changes go further then blizz must readjust the assimilator, refinery.. cost to 100.

sorry for my bad english
:D
Funguuuuu
Profile Joined July 2011
United States198 Posts
March 22 2012 00:14 GMT
#43
The map seems to play out very well, but how could a map type like this (which seems so different in terms of what the standard builds would be) get tested enough to one day be implemented into tournament play?
The night is dark and full of Terrans
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
March 22 2012 01:41 GMT
#44
These:

On March 21 2012 21:57 Surili wrote:
Personally until it is explored more i don't think we should worry about balance too much, because we have to remember that we will be playing the game WRONG. In small scale battles the way that units can be split up is completely different, units like the stalker, that are fast, heal and long ranged become SO powerful. I fear for a terran against HerO on this map, with his stalker micro...

I'd like to note that it should be mandatory for posts to finish like this:

Also, archons.

On March 22 2012 00:00 TheFish7 wrote:
It seems logical that infestor builds will be OP with 1hyg, but I just watched a diamond zerg who was rushing to infestors get absolutely murdered by early marine aggression from a platinum terran. The AI does not know how to build off 6 minerals, and furthermore the AI has the worst micro ever, which is more important on this kind of map so testing things vs the AI is not a good benchmark.

In general, as Barrin stated in is original post, teching is generally slowed down because you need to expand more often, and teching opens you up to getting overwhelmed by T1 units. I really dont think rushing to gas units is going to be an issue on 6m 1hyg maps, but I DO think it could be an issue on 6m2g maps because you will have an abundance of gas units some of which are countered by mineral units/buildings. of course, this is my completely untested opinion.

in response to this:

On March 21 2012 13:52 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
I just wanted to say that infestors may become partcularly formidable to the 1hyg version of this map. I will check back with a more exact build, but basically you 10 pool, 9 gas, drone back up to 10, put three on gas as soon as it pops, pop an overlord, start lair, drone up to 15 (12 on minerals), plant infestor pit, 3-5 spines (re-droning back to 12 with each one), get a queen and 3 infestors by the time the Very Hard AI pops it's attack with any race. This pretty using destiny's "fungal field" you can pretty much wipe up this initial attack force and expand at will. Again, this is just messing around with funky timings with AI so it might not matter against another player, but it seems like the really fast infestors are not very punishable.

I think two geysers will help to fix this, but I like the idea of making them low yield as FoxyMayhem mentioned in the BoGiSC2 thread. Also, 1875 per geyser, but that's just nitpicking.

Edit: Also, archons.


My response:

My concern is not for balance per se, my concern is for abuse. There is a significant difference between 1hyg and 2g no matter how much gas is in them because of the *rate* and *required investment* differences in the very early game. You may be able to pop out a few game changing tech units with the 1hyg variant that would cost you *much* less in terms of minerals, supply, and time. To do what I'm talking about with zerg with 2g instead of 1hyg you would need to spend at least the money and time on 2-3 more drones, build another extractor, and possibly build another overlord sooner in the build to account for all of the supply that is being used. Without this, the time to get the first infestor out is significantly reduced. In the test game I just played to get some times, my first infestor started at 4:43 (and I already had a few lings out and two spine crawlers building around the 4 minute mark). Maybe this is still to slow, but it still seems pretty safe, and from there it seems pretty easy to keep up ling infestor and double expand. I'm not a pro, so I don't know whether this is broken or not, but it seems like it could be abused more than I am capable of. My concern is simply that the new variant progress without any hidden gotchas that are going to reduce its credibility. I am less concerned with the potential over gassing in the late game since it seems this could be a much easier thing to change up like having mineral onlys at later expansions. But the early game is where you really need to get it right. You may still be able to get early infestors (also, archons) with the 2 gas version, but it seems like there is a more significant risk involved.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
Areon
Profile Joined November 2010
United States273 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-22 03:18:59
March 22 2012 03:17 GMT
#45
One gas? One gas?!? I mentioned this in a related thread, but I feel if you want to neuter gas acquisition without completely demolishing the metagame, keep two geysers and have workers only return 3 gas per trip. Just out of curiosity, how much gas do these geysers return? Edit: what is it like 6 I'm guessing? Would appreciate if you put in OP. Aside from that, looks like a good map. Pretty sure this'll never catch like wildfire and spread mainstream but I like what you're trying to do Barrin.
LemonyTang
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom428 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-22 13:39:27
March 22 2012 13:39 GMT
#46
On March 22 2012 12:17 Areon wrote:
One gas? One gas?!? I mentioned this in a related thread, but I feel if you want to neuter gas acquisition without completely demolishing the metagame, keep two geysers and have workers only return 3 gas per trip. Just out of curiosity, how much gas do these geysers return? Edit: what is it like 6 I'm guessing? Would appreciate if you put in OP. Aside from that, looks like a good map. Pretty sure this'll never catch like wildfire and spread mainstream but I like what you're trying to do Barrin.


hyg returns 6 per trip ye
Mvp #1
[]Phase[]
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium927 Posts
March 22 2012 15:21 GMT
#47
are there any plans of adding in hots units in the 6m maps? I would love to see how that plays out aswell
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-22 15:55:05
March 22 2012 15:52 GMT
#48
On March 22 2012 05:15 RumbleBadger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2012 04:46 Barrin wrote:
btw, whatthefat did a really nice battle report on this map a few days ago

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321242&currentpage=34#661

On March 18 2012 11:57 whatthefat wrote:
Having watched and played several games on these maps yesterday and today, I'd like to summarize my thoughts at this stage.

At my level (high diamond), I feel like the character of the game is not immensely different. I mean, the timings are wonky and it takes much longer to reach max, but it's still essentially still one large army slamming into another at some point.

However, I did get to watch some master level games yesterday, and I've included a battle report below for a particularly entertaining game between BlingLing (T) and babysimba (Z) that I think showcases the potential for this change. (Thanks to both players for such a fun game!)

babysimba opened with a 15 hatch, while BlingLing went 14 CC.

[image loading]

On spotting the CC, babysimba made the excellent decision to take a third before pool.

[image loading]

With both players beginning to macro up, BlingLing pushed into the Zerg natural with a handful of marines off two barracks. With some good marine control, he managed to inflict some minor damage, killing a morphing spine, killing 4 lings, and getting home with his damaged marines. However, he did not spot the Zerg third.

[image loading]

BlingLing teched to siege tanks and threw down two more barracks. He also added a couple of missile turrets, possibly fearing 8 minute mutas (which are quite frightening if Zerg takes both high yield gases quickly). However, babysimba had delayed Lair in favor of droning and amassing lings. With map control established, babysimba teched to infestors, while Blingling took the gasless third.

With a medivac out, BlingLing pushed across the map.

[image loading]

Baneling nest was complete, but not baneling speed. babysimba did a reasonable job of cleaning up the pressure, but some cute drop micro and excellent tank spread ensured the Terran forces did some damage.

[image loading]

While this engagement was playing out, both players had taken their fourth bases, and Zerg had started a Hive, and amassed a good group of infestors. At the 15 minute mark, both players were around 130 supply. You might note this is a little low given the appearance of the minimap, with both players comfortably on 4 bases, Zerg on Hive tech, and Terran taking a fifth. This is of course a direct effect of the reduced mineral patches.

[image loading]

At this point, things started to get very interesting. Both players began to split their main army into small hit squads, each trying to take advantage of the other's distributed bases. Simultaneous engagements occurred in the chokepoint to Terran's natural, and along the bottom path of the map.

[image loading]

In the meantime, BlingLing snuck 4 marines into the Zerg third to pick off creep tumors, while babysimba pushed back into the Terran chokepoint with a group of lings.

[image loading]

With the dust barely settled on that skirmish, another began below, with babysimba using some clever burrow tactics to ambush and fungal a group of marines.

[image loading]

At the 18 minute mark, Zerg decided it was time to spend his huge bank, and dumped it into 7 ultralisks, bringing both players to about 150 supply.

Terran next attempted a drop on the Zerg fifth. It was quickly spotted, but the distraction allowed BlingLing to move into a strong highground position, cutting off Zerg's sixth. Considering the position too tenuous, he unsieged and maneuvered this force to rejoin his main army.

[image loading]

Terran's macro was now starting to pull slightly ahead, with a supply lead of about 30. That might sound really bad for a Zerg in a ZvT. But in this reduced resource version of the game, falling behind in supply does not seem to be quite as grim. From my limited experience, there seem to be more opportunities to pull oneself back into the game now that the macro moves at along at a more reasonable pace.

With both armies jockeying for position in the middle, Terran dropped the Zerg seventh and sent another two hit squads to simultaneously attack Zerg's third and sixth bases. As these distractions pulled the Zerg forces away from the center, Terran pushed ever closer to the Zerg natural.

[image loading]

As Zerg cleared up the multiple harassments, Terran attempted to reposition his army to higher ground. But the Zerg forces were able to intercept before the tanks were sieged.

[image loading]

While Zerg was able to take out several siege tanks, the ultralisks had insufficient support and melted under the marine fire.

Terran immediately sent a small group to deny any further attempts to expand to the top of the map, while pulling back his main force to consolidate his lead.

[image loading]

In response, Zerg counter-attacked Terran's south-most base.

[image loading]

Without infestor support, Terran's marines were able to clean up the attack, with Zerg trading reasonably.

[image loading]

Zerg's economy was now crippled, with Terran taking an annoying position behind the mineral line at Zerg's fifth base. However, Terran was down to 34 SCVs, and Zerg had cleverly blocked Terran's main mining base with a burrowed zergling.

[image loading]
[image loading]

Seeing a chance to equalize, Zerg pushed through the center with ultralisks supported by infestors, reducing both players to 140 supply.

[image loading]

Both players were fighting valiantly, seemingly able to just continue fighting indefinitely all over the map. The amount of action had naturally disrupted Zerg's macro, however, and he did not have enough larvae to spend his bank of 1300 minerals and 1300 gas before the next engagement.

With the game now in a delicate state of balance, BlingLing was able to clear up the remaining ultralisks, and catch the vital infestors out of position before they could escape.

[image loading]

With BlingLing in a commanding position, babysimba was forced to gg.

[image loading]

Those of us observing were extremely impressed, and grateful to the players for putting on such a good show.


This is delightful. Sentences like, "With both armies jockeying for position in the middle, Terran dropped the Zerg seventh and sent another two hit squads to simultaneously attack Zerg's third and sixth bases," really show the positive effects of 6m1hyg.

For those worrying about gas steals, I think people will just take gases earlier, so a scouting drone won't get there in time to gas steal. If your minerals are saturated on 12 drones, people will probably get gas around 9 or 10 supply. Even a 7 scout probably won't be there to gas steal at that point.

Also, I really like the more choky feel the map has, because the smaller armies then can maneuver really nicely around and do all the harassing like in the replay described above. ^^ I really hope this catches on.


Yeah that was awesome to see. I have to contest the statement that it takes MUCH longer to max out - I was able to do it in 17 minutes as Terran with a bio/tank army, the first time I played this mode (It was 6m1hyg devolution on GSL Daybreak). It takes 15-16 minutes on 8m2g provided there are minimal losses before that point.
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-23 00:43:46
March 23 2012 00:42 GMT
#49
Edit: wrong thread -- moved to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14027831
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3230 Posts
March 24 2012 21:09 GMT
#50
On March 21 2012 12:45 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2012 09:54 ChristianS wrote:
On March 21 2012 01:44 Barrin wrote:
Mineral/Gas Counts: + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


6m1g= 6 minerals, 1 gas.
6m1hyg= 6 minerals, 1 high yield gas.
This is very much just straight 1 gas. Also, much of the strategy of SC2 is built around the principle of how many gas geysers you get at what time, since this produces more options for managing economies, and thus, more varied and diverse gameplay options. With 1 gas per base, every race is pretty much constantly starved for gas, resulting in much less interesting gameplay. And with 1 high yield gas per base, there's pretty much a choice between gasless play and very gas-heavy play, since the middle options have been removed. More options = more interesting gameplay, which is why 2g was put in the game in the first place.

lol in the very picture you quoted it specifically says gas = high yield...

Ah, I misunderstood. I was under the impression that was a gas-only expansion in the middle that had high yield gas. All the same, Barrin is apparently favoring a 6m2g format, which sounds like a very good idea.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
March 24 2012 22:09 GMT
#51
While this is nice, I think having the main base have normal mineral / gas numbers would be better, since only 6 mineral patches means u need your expansion to finish before u have 18 workers, and the only way for that is nexus / hatch / CC 1st, which makes every other tactic bad which is VERY bad.

You can make every expo a 6M1HYG expo, but the main have to remain normal.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
March 25 2012 00:07 GMT
#52
On March 25 2012 07:09 moskonia wrote:
While this is nice, I think having the main base have normal mineral / gas numbers would be better, since only 6 mineral patches means u need your expansion to finish before u have 18 workers, and the only way for that is nexus / hatch / CC 1st, which makes every other tactic bad which is VERY bad.

You can make every expo a 6M1HYG expo, but the main have to remain normal.

In barrin's article, he says that 8M2G main in this case would encourage one base allins much more than normal maps.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
moskonia
Profile Joined January 2011
Israel1448 Posts
March 25 2012 13:47 GMT
#53
ok just played a game of ZvT on this map, and it seems really cool, what i found interesting is that while i had the same amount of workers as the terran player, since i had 4 base and he only 3 my income wasn't behind his, but even ahead.

we both had 59 workers, normally that doesn't reach even the optimal saturation for 3 bases (lets say everyone takes all gasses), since it is 66 (16+6 on gas X3), but with the 6m1hyg, it reached optimal saturation long time ago (45 = 12 + 3 on gas X3) and is scratching the max saturation of 63 (18+3 on gas X3).

now for a 4base player, 59 workers is nothing in normal games, there is no need for a 4th base with such little amount of workers, but with the 6m1hyg it just reached the optimal saturation of 60 (12+3 X4), now that makes MUCH more interesting games ^^

the only complain is the 4th in this map is a bit hard to take, but anyways it is worth it.
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2408 Posts
March 25 2012 16:38 GMT
#54
Just going to bring this up, something I posted in 6m Outcome's thread:

---

The problem I have with 6m Devolution and 6m Outcome is that there is really only one place to move a large army. And that is a straight path through the middle. Imo terrible, terrible map design

[image loading]

The red line is the only place to move a large army (especially prominent for Zerg). The blue lines show how many chokes there are around the map, and how it prevents any large army from moving through.

I think what you *intended* to do was prevent large-scale army balling, but instead it just means that almost every engagement is going to happen right in the middle of the map. This just leads to boring gameplay and not a lot of action around the outside of the map other than some small harassment.

[image loading]

Same story as Devolution... only the middle pathway can be used for large-scale engagements.

I think these maps would benefit a lot with some more open spaces. Compare it to Cloud Kingdom- there are so many more options for large engagements- and the gameplay on the map proves it. Tbh, I like CK gameplay a lot more than any 6m2g so far.

[image loading]

Moral of the story imo: Map design can change a lot more than mineral count. That being said, I like 6m2g, you just can't discard all mapmaking theory when making maps for it.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Monitor
GPThunder
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada53 Posts
March 25 2012 16:57 GMT
#55
Ironman just uploaded his map. We're waiting for yours....... lol.
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-25 17:37:17
March 25 2012 17:37 GMT
#56
On March 26 2012 01:38 monitor wrote:
Just going to bring this up, something I posted in 6m Outcome's thread:

---

The problem I have with 6m Devolution and 6m Outcome is that there is really only one place to move a large army. And that is a straight path through the middle. Imo terrible, terrible map design

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


The red line is the only place to move a large army (especially prominent for Zerg). The blue lines show how many chokes there are around the map, and how it prevents any large army from moving through.

I think what you *intended* to do was prevent large-scale army balling, but instead it just means that almost every engagement is going to happen right in the middle of the map. This just leads to boring gameplay and not a lot of action around the outside of the map other than some small harassment.


Quoted for truth! The exact same criticism I had/have for this map.
The middle is very much like Shakuras which leads to horrible mid/lategame.
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-25 18:25:40
March 25 2012 18:16 GMT
#57
--- Nuked ---
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
March 25 2012 18:29 GMT
#58
On March 26 2012 02:37 Ragoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2012 01:38 monitor wrote:
Just going to bring this up, something I posted in 6m Outcome's thread:

---

The problem I have with 6m Devolution and 6m Outcome is that there is really only one place to move a large army. And that is a straight path through the middle. Imo terrible, terrible map design

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


The red line is the only place to move a large army (especially prominent for Zerg). The blue lines show how many chokes there are around the map, and how it prevents any large army from moving through.

I think what you *intended* to do was prevent large-scale army balling, but instead it just means that almost every engagement is going to happen right in the middle of the map. This just leads to boring gameplay and not a lot of action around the outside of the map other than some small harassment.


Quoted for truth! The exact same criticism I had/have for this map.
The middle is very much like Shakuras which leads to horrible mid/lategame.


How much have you guys played/watched...? None of my games have been like this -- I have engagements of all scales all over the map. I disagree completely with the conclusion above for lack of evidence. The argument is worth discussing and Devolution has its issues but this seems like a very strange bone to pick.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
GPThunder
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada53 Posts
March 25 2012 18:38 GMT
#59
@ Eat the path, agreed. I've played probably 20 games on 6m, and as a protoss I have yet to hit maxed and A move down the middle.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
March 25 2012 23:19 GMT
#60
--- Nuked ---
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