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On July 10 2012 06:04 MNdakota wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 05:57 Kabel wrote:
I will send a new update to NA tomorrow. The problem is that the versions get outdated fast. But I try to send them at a higher pace to Laertes ahead What are some of the changes if you can give a quick recap?
A lot of the basic values, like HP, damage, costs etc has been tweaked for many units. But the more major things are:
- Attack range of the core ranged units (hydralisks, marines, etc) has been reduced by 1. They have attack range 4. (Normally 5) This is a way to try too make large deathballs of ranged units being less deadly. (Mutalisks attack range has been reduced too.)
- Calldown Mule is replaced by Calldown SCV. It costs 50 energy, 50 minerals and has a cooldown of 40 seconds. Right now, all three races has a way to boost their worker production: Chrono boost, larvas and calldown SCV.
- Breed is removed. Zerg only macro from hatcheries. First I thought that would be too simple, but it adds back the dimension of the classic larva management from BW. Breed was very confusing for new players and didnt really add as much to the game as I thought. The queen now only focus on spreading creep and transfuse. I haven´t changed the creep yet, but I will make it spread at a slower pace, so the Zerg player need to be more active with his queens in order to get a large creep radius.
- The Dragoon has been replaced by the Stalker with a new skin. The reason for that is that the Stalker is a more swift and micro friendly unit. So far, in all games I´ve played, Protoss has almost never walked away with their Dragoons from their main army. Stalkers however live a life on their own. Players use them to blink into the enemy base, harass, hit-and-run attacks etc. The clumsy Dragoon rarely does that. I don´t know why, since both units has the same movement speed : /
- The Colossus has been replaced by the Immortal. The reason is that the Colossus splash damage overlaps with the Reaver, Archon and Psi storm. Many suggestions has been made regarding the colossus, but I want to try the simple solution first: adding back the Immortal instead. The Immortal adds something unique to the Protoss race, even thought I am not a big fan of it.
- Marines, marauders, firebats and ghosts are in the game. Don´t know if you have it like that or not.
I´m surely missed some things. And as usual, nothing of this is rock solid. The more drastic changes, like replacing the Dragoon, are just experiments. There are still some bugs, small errors and poorly written icons in the game. I will take time and give the MOD a facelift soon. But right now I focus more on the gameplay, especially early and mid game. Thats why many of the late game units are still not fully developed, like Arbiters, Swarm Guardians etc.
Generally, I try to keep the game as clean and elegant as possible. If there is a simple solution to a "problem", I try it, before I make more advanced thigs.
I am sending the latest version To Laertes now. I am also sending him the same two maps as we play on EU. So both NA and EU uses the same maps. Hopefully he will upload them as soon as possible.
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awww damn i'm really sad that the Dragoon is gone... I felt blink would suit DT's better anyways since they don't really have anything interesting + they have their own building. Not to mention, Zeratul already an awesome animation for it.
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On July 10 2012 07:48 Kabel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 06:04 MNdakota wrote:On July 10 2012 05:57 Kabel wrote:
I will send a new update to NA tomorrow. The problem is that the versions get outdated fast. But I try to send them at a higher pace to Laertes ahead What are some of the changes if you can give a quick recap? - Breed is removed. Zerg only macro from hatcheries. First I thought that would be too simple, but it adds back the dimension of the classic larva management from BW. Breed was very confusing for new players and didnt really add as much to the game as I thought. The queen now only focus on spreading creep and transfuse. I haven´t changed the creep yet, but I will make it spread at a slower pace, so the Zerg player need to be more active with his queens in order to get a large creep radius
I am curious to know what has taken its place? We had an upgrade based replacement on NA for a bit. It worked out well.
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Feedback:
Ok so I played the mod about 2 days ago on NA I believe it was one of the latest versions (Dragoons still in) buts here what I noticed that felt strange to me. Note all my testing was more or less playing around with the new units/abilities against a medium AI opponent so I wasn't playing properly.
Likes
-The new units, and abilities were fun to play with.
Dislikes
-I had two base and constant 7k minerals. Because I wasn't serious I had way too much minerals but I never had any freaken gas! This being my biggest concern.
I was constantly told to get more gas. I believe you should bring back both the geysers as in SC2 which would have made the flow of the game much better.
Terran still had mules and protoss had chrono boost. Then why on Earth was inject larvae not in the game?
If you want to take inject larvae out then remove chrono and mules too.
Queens seemed to be only useful to expand creep and their health transfusion only restored 150 instead of 200. If Queen do not inject larvae then maybe take tumors out of the game altogether and have them lay creep colonys all over the place manually? Gives them a more active role.
What was this breed ability you were talking about?
Oh and one last thing, Reavers seem to play up a little - there attacks were a little glitchy at times and I can't understand why you would have both the Colossus and reaver in the game.
Other than that great work 
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Holy shit Protoss is so fun to play. Oh my god, amazing. Screw the colossus, don't change anything at all to stalkers. Perhaps base range to 5 and upgrade to 6, but it's okay right now.
Recall at nexus, everything is great :D Thanks. Gonna play T/Z now to see how it feels.
PS: Bugs - Stalker range says it's Dragoon range. There's still Extended Thermal Lance. Cyber core enables Dragoons (not stalkers)
Though Protoss has just 1 spell caster. I vote to bring back the sentry (50-75), with just Guardian Shield and Hallucination and perhaps another spell (open for discussion)
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On July 10 2012 09:07 WhiteKnight wrote:
-I had two base and constant 7k minerals. Because I wasn't serious I had way too much minerals but I never had any freaken gas! This being my biggest concern.
It was and still is a concern of mine. The gas to minerals ratio is way too funky but that is another subject and debate to have.
Glad you enjoyed it otherwise! If you're on the NA server, come into the "starbow" channel and play.
Kabel, when are you going to release a very stable version? As in, it's not going to be changed very often. I would like to make a video going over the tech tree of each race and show individual units and showcase what they do; etc.
On July 10 2012 09:10 nucLeaRTV wrote:
Though Protoss has just 1 spell caster. I vote to bring back the sentry (50-75), with just Guardian Shield and Hallucination and perhaps another spell (open for discussion)
On NA, we have the dark archon which has two spells.
Remember that the arbiter is also a spell caster unless it was removed by any chance.
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Yes, it's true. I was thinking at Sentry having GS, Hallu and a Frost Cloud spell that is storm like and all the units in this cloud are slowed by 50%. It stays there about 15s.
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On July 10 2012 09:18 nucLeaRTV wrote:
Frost Cloud spell that is storm like and all the units in this cloud are slowed by 50%. It stays there about 15s.
So something like the spell Ensnare from the Queen in Brood War?
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I don't really know, let me search.
I played zerg. The general feeling is: I don't have enough larvae. I had 15 hatcheries and I never felt safe pushing. The zerg feeling should be massive aggresion without the fear that once you lose the army, you don't have another one backing up. This is how i felt, if i lost my 30+ hydras, there was no way I had enough larvae to produce another 30 by the time you got to my base.
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On July 10 2012 09:28 nucLeaRTV wrote:
I don't have enough larvae. I had 15 hatcheries and I never felt safe pushing. The zerg feeling should be massive aggresion without the fear that once you lose the army, you don't have another one backing up. This is how i felt, if i lost my 30+ hydras, there was no way I had enough larvae to produce another 30 by the time you got to my base.
Ok well on NA. We have a late game upgrade on the Evolution Chamber called "Chemical Reformatting." Now what this does is it makes it so that Hatcheries can have a maximum capacity of five Larvae at one Hatchery and they generated faster.
It works very well.
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I have no idea why everone wants zerg to be "fast army remaxing race". Its Sc2s zerg trait, and its terrible in my opinion. Right now we have zerg which is real SWARM. Have you seen how many units you can have now? Banking money and rebuilding funny, tiny army is not zergish at all! I hate sc2 for what they did to poor zerg. And still, 15 hatcheries is ALOT (you can save 45 larvae with that!) of production, and you dont have to REMAX instant after loosing battle. now zerg units are super suply efficent, and are able to fight even with lower suply army. 30 hydras is not really that huge ammount. I easly had over 80 with 140~160 suply (60ish workers/5base).
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On July 10 2012 10:13 Danko__ wrote:
I have no idea why everone wants zerg to be "fast army remaxing race".
I never said that. Just saying, that's what we had.
I totally agree with you though with the SC2 Zerg remaxing like that. It's lame.
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Really miss the dragoon unit design/art.
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On July 10 2012 08:44 pzea469 wrote:
awww damn i'm really sad that the Dragoon is gone... I felt blink would suit DT's better anyways since they don't really have anything interesting + they have their own building. Not to mention, Zeratul already an awesome animation for it.
Wait, they already tried blink on DTs? I definitely think that should move to the DT if it stays in, it makes so much sense.
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On July 09 2012 17:34 Danko__ wrote:
Workers gather resources longer, but bring you more. It increases income overall, and reduces number of workers neccesary per base so you wont end up with 100+ workers to have good econ.
Interesting. Are bases saturated faster (at 2 workers per mineral)?
something like this?
1 worker per mineral block: More Income that in SC2
2 worker per mineral block: More Income that in SC2
3 worker per mineral block: Dont Work
Maybe this is too much income, SC2 was already a high income game compared to bw.
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Not true. Income in BW per worker was higher. And with easier macro (mbs, automine, unlimited selection) i dont think it has to be tuned down.
Im against dts with blink, as they would be way too hard to control (counter). But instead i would remove dark shrine and move them to templar archives. Just we will have to tweak detectors (you know, good old ovies with detection, bit weaker but more often avalible scan). I hate that right now dark shrine is "all in path". It opens only 1 option which will or wont work. In BW templar archives gave you acces to 4 units!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LE0ib.jpg)
