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And now for something completely different...
Xiphias (Z) Vs Azelja (T) best of 7 SHOWMATCH!
Wait.... what? Yes! For times and eons, Xiphias and Azelja has been battling it out on starbow and winning about 50-50. Who is truly the better player? + Show Spoiler + I am, ofc, placed 3rd in the tournament...
Wait .... when? Wed (13. mars) from 8 pm CET until we have a victor. Feel free to obs unless you lag (I'm looking at you Jay...) We will play on random Starbow maps (not purple storm), and I will cast all the games in a spoiler free manner afterwards.
The loser must spell loser with two o's.
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On March 12 2013 01:01 Xiphias wrote:And now for something completely different... Xiphias (Z) Vs Azelja (T) best of 7 SHOWMATCH!Wait.... what? Yes! For times and eons. Xiphias and Azelja has been battling it out on starbow and winning about 50-50. Who is truly the better player? + Show Spoiler + I am, ofc, placed 3rd in the tournament... Wait .... when? Wed (13. mars) from 8 pm CET until we have a victor. Feel free to obs unless you lag (I'm looking at you Jay...) We will play on random Starbow maps (not purple storm), and I will cast all the games in a spoiler free manner afterwards.
Pff, you got most of those wins from your Protoss days... 
On March 12 2013 01:01 Xiphias wrote:The loser must spell loser with two o's.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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On March 12 2013 01:01 Xiphias wrote:And now for something completely different... Xiphias (Z) Vs Azelja (T) best of 7 SHOWMATCH!Wait.... what? Yes! For times and eons. Xiphias and Azelja has been battling it out on starbow and winning about 50-50. Who is truly the better player? + Show Spoiler + I am, ofc, placed 3rd in the tournament... Wait .... when? Wed (13. mars) from 8 pm CET until we have a victor. Feel free to obs unless you lag (I'm looking at you Jay...) We will play on random Starbow maps (not purple storm), and I will cast all the games in a spoiler free manner afterwards. The loser must spell loser with two o's.
Pffff... Its not lag, it's a feature to give you guys more time to think!
Gonna post some stuff on the last discussions tomorrow, when I had time to think about them properly.
Up to then one stray idea:
Starbow needs a map contest for 3 reasons:
-) I believe the mappool is lacking and actually hinders people from spreading out all over the map.
-) HotS texture sets
-) Starbow could need a little more puplicity and a "map contest Starbow"- thread could not only help attracting players ("what a beautiful map, I want to play this") and ambitous mappers, but it could also give the opportunity to gain valueable insight on how to create interesting gameplay from toplevel mapmakers.
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On March 12 2013 02:35 Big J wrote:
-) Starbow could need a little more puplicity and a "map contest Starbow"- thread could not only help attracting players ("what a beautiful map, I want to play this") and ambitous mappers, but it could also give the opportunity to gain valueable insight on how to create interesting gameplay from toplevel mapmakers.
Agreed, it's gotten to a point where I am trying to learn sc2 map editor just to make a SB map. I feel we need a map that features the following:
- Large map (feel more BW'ish)
- Easy to secure nat.
- Lots of ledges and ridges to use/abuse high,ground.
- Many bases but execpt for main/nat, they should be far away from each other and at "interesting" points. Preferably 2 island bases as well.
- Even though bases are far away from each other they should have chokes which makes them easy to defend.
In this regard I feel "the Shortest Straw" is the best map in the pool atm, but there is defiantly room for improvement.
Not every map should have all these features, but I would like to se more SB maps have them.
i would also like to see an island map.
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On March 12 2013 02:48 Xiphias wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 02:35 Big J wrote:
-) Starbow could need a little more puplicity and a "map contest Starbow"- thread could not only help attracting players ("what a beautiful map, I want to play this") and ambitous mappers, but it could also give the opportunity to gain valueable insight on how to create interesting gameplay from toplevel mapmakers. Agreed, it's gotten to a point where I am trying to learn sc2 map editor just to make a SB map. I feel we need a map that features the following: - Large map (feel more BW'ish) - Easy to secure nat. - Lots of ledges and ridges to use/abuse high,ground. - Many bases but execpt for main/nat, they should be far away from each other and at "interesting" points. Preferably 2 island bases as well. - Even though bases are far away from each other they should have chokes which makes them easy to defend. In this regard I feel "the Shortest Straw" is the best map in the pool atm, but there is defiantly room for improvement. Not every map should have all these features, but I would like to se more SB maps have them. i would also like to see an island map.
Completely agree - The shortest straw creates the most entertaining macro games, though maybe the 3rd is a bit too difficult to secure. At the moment it is fine with the way the planetary works, however with a redesigned planetary in next patch, the 3rd could be slightly easier to secure. There is a thin line between making the 3rd easy enough to secure so you dont die to any timing push, but also make it somewhat far away from the natural so that it is harassable.
Desitnation is probably the worst maps, I feel like I have to open siege tanks before taking my natural on that map against protss. Protoss on the other hand can do whatever they want and be safe. The map is also way too thin which make drop play pretty bad.
At Xiphias
Kabel said that I should talk to you regarding the promotional video strategy of Starbow. However, I think we should wait till next patch is launched till we discuss how to proceed regarding that.
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On March 12 2013 03:20 Hider wrote:
At Xiphias
Kabel said that I should talk to you regarding the promotional video strategy of Starbow. However, I think we should wait till next patch is launched till we discuss how to proceed regarding that.
Agreed. I will not make a new one until the next patch is out. I also think I can make it mostly myself by using the unit tester and record directly. Might need one more person.
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Just waned to post this, it's kinda funny.
So right before the region play went down I was playing around with switching regions to see what it was like on battle.net in different places. The last region I visited was SEA. Then region play went down.....
Apparently they send you to your last visited region and not your "natural" region.... so I guess I am stuck at *put shades on* SEA.
Btw, they have the "basic" Starbow maps uploaded there, and there was one guy in the chat channel (away).
I also think SEA is one of the last regions to get HoTS, and blizzards treats me thereafter....
Edit: Found this map: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402434
This seems nice! Third might be too close, but it's not that bad. Love the fourth. Far away but easy to defend. Also like that the Xel-naga is not crucial but tactical.
Edit 2: and even more maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402210 The first one (Blunderbluss) seems nice. Third might be a tad too difficult to defend, but not worse than The Shortest straw. Koprulu reminds me of that ash world map in BW where you had all those bases around the edge of the map that were blocked by its own mineral patches. Outsider. Could be fun to try as well.
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On March 12 2013 15:11 Xiphias wrote:Just waned to post this, it's kinda funny. So right before the region play went down I was playing around with switching regions to see what it was like on battle.net in different places. The last region I visited was SEA. Then region play went down..... Apparently they send you to your last visited region and not your "natural" region.... so I guess I am stuck at *put shades on* SEA. Btw, they have the "basic" Starbow maps uploaded there, and there was one guy in the chat channel (away). I also think SEA is one of the last regions to get HoTS, and blizzards treats me thereafter.... Edit: Found this map: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402434 This seems nice! Third might be too close, but it's not that bad. Love the fourth. Far away but easy to defend. Also like that the Xel-naga is not crucial but tactical. Edit 2: and even more maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402210 The first one (Blunderbluss) seems nice. Third might be a tad too difficult to defend, but not worse than The Shortest straw. Koprulu reminds me of that ash world map in BW where you had all those bases around the edge of the map that were blocked by its own mineral patches. Outsider. Could be fun to try as well.
Can't you use the region.xml trick to change region?
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@New maps
I can PM and ask the map makers.
Outsider, the old beauty! Terranlover has recreated some old BW-maps, like Destination, Match Point and lately Neo Requiem. I can ask if he wanna give Outsider a go.
Now of course, all maps in Starbow must not be old BW maps. It is just that they often seem to fit Starbow quite well. The coolest thing would be if someone would like to create maps purely for Starbow : )
@HoTS
I am installing it now! So the work with the next patch will begin. I can´t promise any specific date when it will be up. It all depends on how hard the stuff I have in mind is to create. (The stuff we talked about in this thread.) XiA usually helps me a lot but he has his own project he works on as well. So I don´t wanna drown him with work.
Two days? Three days?
Still some areas of the game I haven´t decided on yet.
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On March 12 2013 19:12 Kabel wrote:
@New maps
Outsider, the old beauty! Terranlover has recreated some old BW-maps, like Destination, Match Point and lately Neo Requiem. I can ask if he wanna give Outsider a go.
I was mearly saying that the map I found reminded me of outsider. No need to recreate that I think 
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Economy and spread out play: I believe that zerg is in a good state right now in this regard. Expanding fast and often is possible (if the map is not too restricting) and fast units like zerglings, mutalisks can attack stray bases easily - those just often don't exist for the other races. A lot of this comes from Zergs need to build hatcheries anyways. I have run a few tests on Terran and noticed, that you actually don't even have the intention of taking a third or a fourth really fast, because you don't have the scvs anyways. Also I'm still not really sold on calldown SCV with 50minerals cost. It slows gameplay down by a lot if you have to invest into 100 for each orbital just that you can pay for extra workers.
Just some math on it:
Minerals gathered per worker per minute with a normal saturation in Starbow ~40minerals.
Investmentcost for the first SCV called down: 150minerals. --> Time until the calldown has paid off: 3mins and 45seconds.
OK... that's stupid because that's not how this kind of optimization/breaking even point search really works. I'm not sitting at a Starcraft capable PC right now, so I can't check the numbers needed. But when I gathered them, I'm gonna be a little more precise on when you break even with OC/SCV costs from calldown and when you can start using the resources on something else. And I'm pretty sure that it will take several minutes in which you just work off your investment costs. (edit: done, see the diagramm below)
Apart from that the ability is kind of boring compared to chronoboost and inject.
For Protoss better expanding: Maybe give the nexus a "friendly stasis" ability, which will stasis nearby probes for ~20-30seconds. So expanding becomes more forgiving and you have more time to deal with threads - while harassing still is useful. It would also create extra energy tension on the nexus.
Terran: I think Starport without Factory requirement (Barracks instead) could be interesting. Maybe I'm just inexperienced in that direction, but I haven't seen any problems with banshee or early drop timings. Maybe Science Vessels become too easy to mass, but they still require the ghost academy and cost a lot of gas that has to go into other stuff (marine upgrades, tanks, medics) at the early stages so I believe this would not be a problem.
This would give Terran the option to go Starport tech earlier.
Edit: SCV Calldown Diagramm:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zsgjEm6.png)
X ... Time (seconds); 0 marks the spot when you spend 100minerals to upgrade the OC
Y ... Minerals
Blue ... Money spent on OC+Calldowns
Red ... Minerals Gathered by SCVs that were Called down
So with perfect macro, it takes you over 4minutes to get a return for your OC investment. Again - in the longrun this works out very well, but in the shortrun it hinders you greatly and therefore slows down the game.
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Working with orbital numbers and timing is very important. Maybe the orbital should cost 100 / 75 and build quicker. It has to be balanced out with its other abilities though.
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Kabel: Can you give us an update;
- what is set?
What is almost set (like where the specific stats aren't decided yet)?
What is still up in the air?
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Starbow - Purple storm Updated!
+ Show Spoiler +
Description: In this map 3rd and fourth are on cliff, but distant distant between them and the main, allowing attacks from different directions, making it less efficient deathball. Drop in main could cause many problems at the deathball opponent.
I think this is one of the best maps for starbow.
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I take it back. Purple storm is no longer the map I won't play on in showmatch. This looks great. Nice work JohnnyZerg!
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Small update over what's going on
The new HoTS features might mess up the Starbow Mod-file. So I might have to rework some stuff. I aim to have the next patch up probably in the weekend since it will require more time than I have at the moment.
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Thanks for update. However, I wondered if you could announce some of the patch notes?
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I will do the work in two steps:
1.) Create, recreate or rework the larger stuff I¨ve talked about, for example add a spell to the Nullifier, change the way Scourge deals damage, rework PF etc
2.) Adjust values, including change stats, cost, damage on units/spells.
I have not decided upon the exact stats yet. This means that I will present a list of changes I will do in the first area. When that is done, I will present a list of changes in the second area.
The next post will contain the "larger" things I will rework/add.
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Larger stuff I will rework:
Zerg
- Replace the Swarm Nest model with a new model I found in the HoTS editor.
- Rework Scourge so they deal AoE damage upon impact. Can only attack air units, but the AoE damage can affect ground units below an air unit.
- Rework the Corrupt-ability for Corruptor. Instead of destroying target ground unit, it will deal X damage vs target ground unit and nearby units. (So it becomes a spell that punishes clumped up units.) Besides, Yamato gun is already almost a spell that destroys target unit...
Protoss
- Add the Nullifier to the robo bay. It will have three spells. (It depens on what type of spells I manage to create)
- Replace Carrier with a modified version of the Tempest.
Terran
- Rework PF. (This also depends on what type of ability I manage to create)
- Rework Matrix so it gives ca 150 HP to target unit, instead of a damage reduction.
Terran line-up of units will probably look like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Marine
- Reaper with Spider mines
- Medic with Heal + Matrix. I also consider to make it better at blocking enemy units and create "Medic-walls" via a little trick..
- Ghost
- Hellion/Hellbat
- Tank
- Goliath
- Viking
- Dropship
- Banshee
- Vessel
- BC
Keep in mind, if any of my changes suck I will revert/rework it. As usual. The stuff listed above is the stuff I will most likely rework. This is the following stuff I consider, but will likely not do:
+ Show Spoiler + - Replace Brood Lord with Guardian, since there is a great model for it in the editor now.
This is for two reasons:
1) Guardians can be cheap, little faster and be more seperated from the other late game air units (BC, Carrier/Tempest). It will just feel more Zerg to have many cheaper units, rather than the few expensive Brood Lords.
2) I can get rid of the broodlings. I have never been a fan of them and I am not satisified with the current version of the BL. The broodlings messes too much with the AI.
- I have some more drastic thoughts on the Terran infantery. But I do not wanna ruin everything so they will likely just remain as concepts.
- Add a new "Warp drive" ability to the BC. HoTS has a complete version of such a spell. It is basically Blink but with a twist.
- Stasis field. Not decided yet what to do with this one.
- I have some potential extra abilities for the Medic, but nothing feels good enough atm. So I might add an extra ability in a later patch
- Replace Goliath with a modified version of Thor with a new ability
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If there is an issue with not having enough maps, we could compensate by convering some of the old WOL maps that would be good in Starbow, I'm thinking Tal'darim alter and crossfire might be good choices, with appropriate changes of course to the bases.
What do you guys think?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EbHDWur.png)
