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On December 07 2010 08:53 Jlad wrote:Voting to skip prep round doesn't work in single player. Been testing zerg to try to come up with more viable strategies. Completely goes against this logic, but bugs are no good. Banelings say they cost 50. They even require you to have 50 minerals. But when you actually morph them it only costs 12. Creep spread speed is a little slow and makes building a ring kind of annoying since you have to wait. Thoughts on this: fofa2000's logic is sound in that creep is actually a hindrance as it speeds up the enemy. Annoys partners. On the other hand, faster zerglings mean they die faster which means more efficiency bonus. Possible solutions is make creep spread faster or make it so hatcheries don't spread it and buildings (and queens? creep tumors?) don't need it. If choosing second option recommend overlords still retaining the ability to spread creep. Gives player the choice. This isn't as big an issue as the first two notes. Moreso thoughts so far. Could always just cover the whole map in creep and say "screw you, dead people."  Any thoughts on lurker post?
I'm aware the of the single player issue.
On December 07 2010 12:54 combatjoe wrote:Registered just to comment about this map. First, thanks for making it, it's a good bit of fun! My one issue; the overlord drop waves take forever! I'm playing solo and currently leaving my PC running in the midst of the 159200 wave. I have a marine heavy build and since this wave is pretty light in volume, the marines actually kill a lot of the overlords thus slowing down the rate of clear for these kinds of waves. The counter goes up at about 5 zerglings a second, varying a good deal but it's a rough enough estimate. With about 30k zerglings left to kill in the wave that's 100 minutes. This wave was around 96-98k if I recall right, 300 minutes to clear! Lastly, the pulse waves make me sad  A simple fix might be to raise overlord HP to a couple thousand. If you can bump their armor up further it would help too. Thanks again for the fun map!
Thanks, please see the message below. This will fix most issues with other races being underpowered. 20 zealots just can't match up to 40 marines behind supply depots, but with smaller levels--they may be superior! 
Stay tuned!
I'm surprised the game still works that far into it. Lol!
I am going to change the system soon; and when I do, there will no longer be any levels that exceed 2,000 zerglings.
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On December 08 2010 03:14 unifo wrote:
Are medivecs suppose to auto heal their target? I tried using a single medavec and it seems like you need to manually press the heal hotkey and target the unit. Is this a bug?
I'm aware of no such thing. I haven't edited any abilities.
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On December 08 2010 03:16 Vanished131 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 03:14 unifo wrote:
Are medivecs suppose to auto heal their target? I tried using a single medavec and it seems like you need to manually press the heal hotkey and target the unit. Is this a bug? I'm aware of no such thing. I haven't edited any abilities.
Yeah you have to target the unit to heal it.
Also Vanished do you want the replay from the game to see if you see anything you want to fix?
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On December 08 2010 03:53 jdblues34 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 03:16 Vanished131 wrote:On December 08 2010 03:14 unifo wrote:
Are medivecs suppose to auto heal their target? I tried using a single medavec and it seems like you need to manually press the heal hotkey and target the unit. Is this a bug? I'm aware of no such thing. I haven't edited any abilities. Yeah you have to target the unit to heal it. Also Vanished do you want the replay from the game to see if you see anything you want to fix?
I've had enough messages in game actually. We can talk about more issues after the update on 12-10-10.
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I'd just like to offer a balance thought on this map: I believe it heavily favors Terran as the only useful race due to the extreme effectiveness of the +2 armor upgrade versus these Zerglings, as well as how well bunkers tend to work out.
You may want to heavily consider this as you balance.
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On December 08 2010 04:02 Polatrite wrote:
I'd just like to offer a balance thought on this map: I believe it heavily favors Terran as the only useful race due to the extreme effectiveness of the +2 armor upgrade versus these Zerglings, as well as how well bunkers tend to work out.
You may want to heavily consider this as you balance.
That is exactly the ideology around smaller round numbers. Will do.
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Awarded same amount of mineral regeneration for mineral man, econ, and savvy sumeritan. Only 100% confirmed for first round. Talent chosen as quickly as possible, nothing bought, combat round begins with 1922 minerals regardless of talent. Don't know exactly how much the 1400+ starting cash is, but assuming 1450, this is 'regeneration' income of roughly 570 for those 2 minutes. 20 second sample in round 2 with mineral man yielded 90 minerals. Rough estimate of 90*6=540...which is far less than the double to be expected, suggesting problems with economy talents specifically and not just the first round. This was in single player.
Overlords get stuck trying to drop in places they can't...had to destroy buildings. Sure you're aware of this, including for completion.
Drones don't always spawn when needed. Might want to implement a check of some sort. Had base annihilated yesterday, won fight, no drones. Can't rebuild. Went on like this for another 3 rounds...
I can see the problem arising in how do deal with disappearing drones and the building cost. I'm assuming it awards mineral + drone cost for most buildings but mineral + drone for hatchery? It seems to award 1 drone when needed...most of the time. So I'm guessing this was just a nasty bug. Since you can't award drones without basically giving 50 minerals is there a way to implement some other safety mechanism? Larva would just die without the creep...a shop to sell peons if needed? Physical shop would be bad, because creation of barrier.
On 5,000 this bug wouldn't be so bad. But at 100,000 it's annoying to have to start over.
Not sure how relevant this is to the 12/10 update, but I figured at least some of it might be.
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On December 08 2010 05:22 Jlad wrote:
Awarded same amount of mineral regeneration for mineral man, econ, and savvy sumeritan. Only 100% confirmed for first round. Talent chosen as quickly as possible, nothing bought, combat round begins with 1922 minerals regardless of talent. Don't know exactly how much the 1400+ starting cash is, but assuming 1450, this is 'regeneration' income of roughly 570 for those 2 minutes. 20 second sample in round 2 with mineral man yielded 90 minerals. Rough estimate of 90*6=540...which is far less than the double to be expected, suggesting problems with economy talents specifically and not just the first round. This was in single player.
Overlords get stuck trying to drop in places they can't...had to destroy buildings. Sure you're aware of this, including for completion.
Drones don't always spawn when needed. Might want to implement a check of some sort. Had base annihilated yesterday, won fight, no drones. Can't rebuild. Went on like this for another 3 rounds...
I can see the problem arising in how do deal with disappearing drones and the building cost. I'm assuming it awards mineral + drone cost for most buildings but mineral + drone for hatchery? It seems to award 1 drone when needed...most of the time. So I'm guessing this was just a nasty bug. Since you can't award drones without basically giving 50 minerals is there a way to implement some other safety mechanism? Larva would just die without the creep...a shop to sell peons if needed? Physical shop would be bad, because creation of barrier.
On 5,000 this bug wouldn't be so bad. But at 100,000 it's annoying to have to start over.
Not sure how relevant this is to the 12/10 update, but I figured at least some of it might be.
The code says otherwise.
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On December 08 2010 08:22 Vanished131 wrote:
The code says otherwise.
That's why it's common practice to make experiments repeatable. It's very easy to start a single player game, pick a talent, don't build anything and see for yourself. It takes four minutes to compare mineral man to savvy samaritan. Clearly, though, the code is infallible. We should disregard any easily reproducible evidence that insinuates otherwise.
Drone problem was an anomaly that deserved noting as it was game ruining outside the intended ruleset. Large issue when game spans hour or (infinitely) longer.
Don't solicit bug reports on the load screen if you're going to meet them with hostility. I've done nothing to warrant that.
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On December 08 2010 09:26 Jlad wrote:That's why it's common practice to make experiments repeatable. It's very easy to start a single player game, pick a talent, don't build anything and see for yourself. It takes four minutes to compare mineral man to savvy samaritan. Clearly, though, the code is infallible. We should disregard any easily reproducible evidence that insinuates otherwise. Drone problem was an anomaly that deserved noting as it was game ruining outside the intended ruleset. Large issue when game spans hour or (infinitely) longer. Don't solicit bug reports on the load screen if you're going to meet them with hostility. I've done nothing to warrant that.
Relax, a number of people have posted issues that aren't even issues. No hostility was meant.
It is indeed a bug, but it only occurs in single player. And to a lesser extent in 2 player. Non-existent in 3 or more players.
By the time you read this message, it will have been fixed. As always, I appreciate your persistence in making this bug evident to me. The bug occurs because I only compile mineral gain every 0.2 seconds. This is not quite fast enough to catch the excess in low numbers of players. This was not apparent to me at first.
Lastly, I love you. And I wish more people would actually post relevant content in this post. Thanks!
I take that back, give me a few minutes to improve the efficiency mineral bonus formula. Taking too long to complete a round will result in 0 minerals, but completing it more quickly will result in a nice increase.
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Just one random thought, doesn't creep speed up enemy zergling movement?
I guess you need to buff zerg somehow, so we zerg players wont get yelled at.
(played terran for that reason on the 9h game) -.-`
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Fun game, but after the 100k mark (2.5hrs), I got bored and quit. Hopefully the new version will increase the difficulty a bit. Terran + bunker stacks + planetary fortresses + massive wall of ghost academies on single player = overpowered. My buildings lost a total of about 50 HP on the wave before 98,000 or whatever the exact number was.
Would it be possible to allow peons to walk through buildings so you can repair the outside wall of your base, or would that be overpowered? The double mineral option left me with an absurd amount of minerals and no gas, though I suppose it might not be much of an issue outside of single player.
On a side note, I had an extra SCV that was taking up extra space. I tried killing it myself, but it came back. Maybe I just missed it, but a sell button would be nice.
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On December 09 2010 14:27 Nipin wrote:
Fun game, but after the 100k mark (2.5hrs), I got bored and quit. Hopefully the new version will increase the difficulty a bit. Terran + bunker stacks + planetary fortresses + massive wall of ghost academies on single player = overpowered. My buildings lost a total of about 50 HP on the wave before 98,000 or whatever the exact number was.
Would it be possible to allow peons to walk through buildings so you can repair the outside wall of your base, or would that be overpowered? The double mineral option left me with an absurd amount of minerals and no gas, though I suppose it might not be much of an issue outside of single player.
On a side note, I had an extra SCV that was taking up extra space. I tried killing it myself, but it came back. Maybe I just missed it, but a sell button would be nice.
I want players to keep any units they build. So I do not plan to implement any options to sell.
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took me 8hours but I got to 350K (had to stop because I had to go out =[ damn life)
Your game is awesome ^^
and I'll be watching for more updates ^^
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oops I forgot to mention that I was a key defender and was using zerg ^^
so zerg aren't really gimpy, they only have one strategy of rushing to broodlords, everything else seems obsolete and will force other players to yell at you
-Mineral Man
(skip useless buildings using refund trick by saving enough money to upgrade into lair/hive and build the required building on the outskirts of the creep to get it killed and refund the money to later upgrade more)
ex:
build hatch then build pool away from def and upgrade lair
the next wave kills pool (you get 200mins back)
and you use that 200mins to further skip tech trees etc ^^
*does this count as an exploit???
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On December 09 2010 23:19 LSRomeo wrote:
took me 8hours but I got to 350K (had to stop because I had to go out =[ damn life)
Your game is awesome ^^
and I'll be watching for more updates ^^
You.... played for 8 hours, and you're telling me you didn't get bored? And you didn't stop until life kicked in? Lol. Thanks, man.
On December 09 2010 23:25 LSRomeo wrote:
oops I forgot to mention that I was a key defender and was using zerg ^^
so zerg aren't really gimpy, they only have one strategy of rushing to broodlords, everything else seems obsolete and will force other players to yell at you
-Mineral Man
(skip useless buildings using refund trick by saving enough money to upgrade into lair/hive and build the required building on the outskirts of the creep to get it killed and refund the money to later upgrade more)
ex:
build hatch then build pool away from def and upgrade lair
the next wave kills pool (you get 200mins back)
and you use that 200mins to further skip tech trees etc ^^
*does this count as an exploit???
Except, you have to wait a round to get the money.
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Last night I played a 2 hour game where I just went reapers and microed them. My hand still hurts. Tonight I'll try a game with hellions.
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After playing some more i noticed that the overlord type of wave doesn't really work . at early waves it's fine but as soon as you reach high numbers of zerglings it just takes too long. Perhaps overlords with more than 8 zerglings? Or waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more overlords per wave?
Even though it's a late response :D, i achieved that 110k easily. we started with 8 players, 5 of em left after they thought we were gonna lose and raging at me because i was zerg. So we had 3 players, 1 protoss, 1 terran and me as zerg. The toss was just, terrible late game because colossi are so damn expensive to reach/build. The terran just build ALL of his PF's on 1 spot (my hive) and i had 8 Broodlords. They kept the lings at bay on south-west west and south. and the 8 PF's annihilated the rest. It was mainly waiting late game.
Waiting a round to get the money is not a downside, due to the fact that you rarely build more stuff during waves.
Now for my list of preferred changes:
- Add talent where units are cheaper (wouldn't know how much) but give them building time instead of instant training.
- The talent where you're invincible for the first 30 secs of a game, change the invulnerability so that you can trigger it whenever you want in the wave, but only once per wave
- Decrease attack speed on broodlords (right now it's 3 broodlings per second or so)
So far my recommended changes. I will play more games to try and find out more changes.
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I think there may be a bug with ghosts. I can use a ghost to nuke itself and nothing happens (which I like). But if I use one ghost to nuke another ghost, the second (non-nuking) ghost dies. Is this supposed to happen?
Also, is cloak supposed to work for the ghosts? The zerglings seem to have detection.
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On December 10 2010 05:04 lalib wrote:
I think there may be a bug with ghosts. I can use a ghost to nuke itself and nothing happens (which I like). But if I use one ghost to nuke another ghost, the second (non-nuking) ghost dies. Is this supposed to happen?
Also, is cloak supposed to work for the ghosts? The zerglings seem to have detection.
They have received detection after everyone was making motherships and being invulnerable.
In my opinion, zerglings should prefer attacking visible units so that ghosts and infestors would make some sense. Then after visible units are dead/invisible, zerglings would attack everything cloaked.
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EPT
