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i think we shall look back on the power rank in 6 month and notice jaedong dropping to 4th place beneath zero
and say wtf????
and than recall the incident and say oh yeah pffff stupid
jaedong hasnt lost any bo but to 2 people in almost 2 years
1- to flash (at his prime and thats ok )
2-to tempest (and thats not ok )
yes sometimes he looses to unknown players but when it matters he wins
cant see how loosing the first game and winning the 2 games after make u guys demote him to 4th
place
what other player can u really say is taking is team all by himself to be # 1
i mean imagine what would happen if jaedong would be in ACE
hmmm i cant see them not taking one of the first 4 places
unlike zero who has good skills but putting him above jaedong is an insult
yes i know the explanation has been given and no need to respond since this comment is just a way to take out my excitement after watching the hite vs oz games peace out
go jaedong
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On June 02 2009 00:05 barbahaba0 wrote:
i think we shall look back on the power rank in 6 month and notice jaedong dropping to 4th place beneath zero
and say wtf????
and than recall the incident and say oh yeah pffff stupid
jaedong hasnt lost any bo but to 2 people in almost 2 years
1- to flash (at his prime and thats ok )
2-to tempest (and thats not ok )
yes sometimes he looses to unknown players but when it matters he wins
cant see how loosing the first game and winning the 2 games after make u guys demote him to 4th
place
what other player can u really say is taking is team all by himself to be # 1
i mean imagine what would happen if jaedong would be in ACE
hmmm i cant see them not taking one of the first 4 places
unlike zero who has good skills but putting him above jaedong is an insult
yes i know the explanation has been given and no need to respond since this comment is just a way to take out my excitement after watching the hite vs oz games peace out
go jaedong
oops forgot about the forgg incident 3-0
ok lets agree on a year
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Norway1530 Posts
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Ya, this PR doesn't exist to me. I thought it was terrible when it first came out and have been ignoring it ever since.
By JWD's rules Violet should be > Bisu for next month's PR, no?
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Oh wow, totally didn't realize I was leading Liquibet til I posted this, rofl. SS for memory lane.
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Yeah game 3 vs jjonga was jjongas loss, cheesy loss serves him right, however we don't know what the outcome would have been had he made 1 more cannon instead of the gateway at home. Maybe jaedong would have delayed his attack or whatever we don't know that.
It's a hard desicion, I just hope the rank will be out soon.
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On June 02 2009 00:26 Jonvvv wrote:
and free..
and Stork in WCG...
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On June 02 2009 01:23 StylishVODs wrote:
Yeah game 3 vs jjonga was jjongas loss, cheesy loss serves him right, however we don't know what the outcome would have been had he made 1 more cannon instead of the gateway at home. Maybe jaedong would have delayed his attack or whatever we don't know that.
It's a hard desicion, I just hope the rank will be out soon.
He had JD cancel the first hatchery, he scouted the hydra den so he KNEW there would be no mutas incoming still he makes 1gate way + assimilator and core at home that is simply retarded. All he needed to do to win that game was make more cannons, remember its at a choke also so JD cant very easily break out once he gets 7-8 cannons there regardless how many hydras he makes. Face it he would have lost every time vs a better experienced toss, except maybe Kal who can scout 2hatch hydra breaks and not do anything to defend vs it 
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On June 02 2009 01:43 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2009 01:23 StylishVODs wrote:
Yeah game 3 vs jjonga was jjongas loss, cheesy loss serves him right, however we don't know what the outcome would have been had he made 1 more cannon instead of the gateway at home. Maybe jaedong would have delayed his attack or whatever we don't know that.
It's a hard desicion, I just hope the rank will be out soon. He had JD cancel the first hatchery, he scouted the hydra den so he KNEW there would be no mutas incoming still he makes 1gate way + assimilator and core at home that is simply retarded. All he needed to do to win that game was make more cannons, remember its at a choke also so JD cant very easily break out once he gets 7-8 cannons there regardless how many hydras he makes. Face it he would have lost every time vs a better experienced toss, except maybe Kal who can scout 2hatch hydra breaks and not do anything to defend vs it
I just rewatched the game. Of course jjonga made mistakes there, that is undeniable. But I am really not sure if your analysis is accurate. The main problem for me is that he can only make so many cannons which are in range to protect the forge. Once the forge is down, JD may have a timing window to actually break through. He could have thrown some lings in the mixture and the hydras may very well have enough time to shot the cannons down until a new forge is up. As someone in the life-thread posted, you cannot underestimate how many hydras/units you can produce from two hatchs.
I am not saying that JD would have pulled through no matter what, but I just don't agree with you that it was a definite loss. When JD "misplaced" the first hatchery I thought it was over though. That was a really big mistake, he should have known that it would not finish in time. So yeah, JD was really lucky in this game.
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By the time he would have killed the forge jjonga could already have close to 10 cannons there. He made 2gateways, assim + core even before JD made his FIRST attack with only a handful of hydra that could have been 4 more cannons, 3 if he decided to make one gateway. There was simply no way hes getting out of there with hydras if jjonga sticks to making cannons.
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That was some crazy cheese and I'm glad it didn't work so people could say jaedong should be nr#2 because of it...
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On June 02 2009 02:07 Oystein wrote:
By the time he would have killed the forge jjonga could already have close to 10 cannons there. He made 2gateways, assim + core even before JD made his FIRST attack with only a handful of hydra that could have been 4 more cannons, 3 if he decided to make one gateway. There was simply no way hes getting out of there with hydras if jjonga sticks to making cannons.
That's lot of theorycrafting. I'm sure you practice scenarios like this all the time so you would know the timings.
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On June 02 2009 02:07 Oystein wrote:
By the time he would have killed the forge jjonga could already have close to 10 cannons there. He made 2gateways, assim + core even before JD made his FIRST attack with only a handful of hydra that could have been 4 more cannons, 3 if he decided to make one gateway. There was simply no way hes getting out of there with hydras if jjonga sticks to making cannons.
Well he saw the hidra den , but there is always the possibility that Jaedong could research drop and go for lurkers or just stick with the hidras or something then trying to break the contain .
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Yep, jjonga couldn't just depend on the cannons alone.
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On June 02 2009 02:07 Oystein wrote:
By the time he would have killed the forge jjonga could already have close to 10 cannons there. He made 2gateways, assim + core even before JD made his FIRST attack with only a handful of hydra that could have been 4 more cannons, 3 if he decided to make one gateway. There was simply no way hes getting out of there with hydras if jjonga sticks to making cannons.
Lol funnily enough I played a game on ICCUP where a guy tried it against me.
There's not as much space there as you might think, and making a bunch of cannons ruins your economy.
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On June 02 2009 02:17 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2009 02:07 Oystein wrote:
By the time he would have killed the forge jjonga could already have close to 10 cannons there. He made 2gateways, assim + core even before JD made his FIRST attack with only a handful of hydra that could have been 4 more cannons, 3 if he decided to make one gateway. There was simply no way hes getting out of there with hydras if jjonga sticks to making cannons. That's lot of theorycrafting. I'm sure you practice scenarios like this all the time so you would know the timings.
Theory crafting? Maybe you should try to actually play the game and get a feel for things. How hard is it to realize those 600 minerals he spent on other shit beside cannons could have been 4 more cannons? You don`t have to be a rocket scientist nor a theory craft god to realize that 600 minerals worth could be 4 more cannons, you add that to the 3 cannons he already had behind the forge that makes 7 + the one he had in front. And yeah I have been cannon blocked like this on several occasions so the scenario is familiar.
OK I will give you an analysis's of why JD was fucked that game.
1. JD does the overpool build, the worst possible build he could do against jjongas build. It leaves him with the worst possible econ without being able to kill it off with lings (a 9pool could have been out just time to kill it off)
2. Then he proceeds to miss place his hatchery (This is probably because he believed the pylon supporting the forge was further below closer to his natural instead of the side where it actually was) so it gets in range of the cannon forcing him to cancel. Now hes on 1 hatch larva production.....
3. When jjonga have 3 cannons with a 4th warping JD is still on 1 hatch production with 4 hydras and 4 lings. By now jjonga could have had 3 more cannons warping in that would have been finished well in time before that decisive attack came.
Still somehow you people seem to think that JD could magically pull a bunch of hydras out of his ass without having the larva's to produce them. By the time JD could mount up a sizable force to break through there jjonga could have an expo up and even more cannons. And for everyone suggesting he could do a drop or something, JD was gas starved on a trashed economy with a scout inside his base seeing that he was doing 2hatch hydrabuild. Sure maybe he COULD tech lair, then drop and then drop out all his units (just how was he suppose to get gas/minerals enough for hydras, the upgrades, lair and drop?) but by that time jjonga could be sitting comfortably with an expo up or if he opted to tech have a corsair out in time to see whats going on an react accordingly.
The only possible way JD could win that game was if jjonga fucked up somehow (which he did) like Daniel Lee said "All he needed to do was make more cannons"
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I agree with nearly everything you say. There are a tons of scenarios what JD could have done and still not stood any chance (and your analysis with JDs build is of course true).
But I am just not convinced it was already a lost game. Of course, 600 minerals more means 4 cannons more. But those additional 4 cannons are not shooting at JDs army at the same time. There is just not enough space. And even when JD does not get out: then we have a toss with nothing. No gate, no gas. And his economy is not superb either, 1 nexus and his like 5th drone towards JDs base.
Towards the Daniel Lee quote: They both are awesome, but they are also wrong a lot, and they sometimes miss stuff too. Happens when you are talking about different sorts of animal milk and wanting to have a sandwich 
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I just watched  Jaedong vs  Leta, and Jaedong has to be at least #1. We may need to invent another number, or maybe give him spots 1 and 2. The TvZ meta game is now early pressure mech builds, and Jaedong just seems immune to it.
I think that there is potential in the current map pool for a strong macro TvZer to consistently take games off Jaedong, but I don't know there are any Terrans up to it. Fantasy and Leta seem to be lacking in macro and late game control (relative to JD) and while Flash has what it takes in those categories his game sense has been off in a major way lately. Hopefully someone will step it up soon and make things interesting. I'm sick of that sound exploding SCVs make, even though it's been good for my fantasy team.
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On June 02 2009 08:08 zulu_nation8 wrote:
yea metagame lol
Fuck, is metagame not a cool thing to say anymore? Someone should start a thread on how not to sound like a tool
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