On November 09 2008 12:08 Athos wrote: After watching the games between Stork and Jaedong in the WCG, I noticed that all three games were incredibly close. There were moments in each game where either play had a chance to win the game. Stork may have won, but Jaedong was clearly playing on the same level. Hell, I don't think PvZ can even be played at a higher level than that.
I disagree. Check out Jaedong vs Bisu on Andromeda
Its very hypocritical to say me + others are blinded by JD fanboyism. Yes, Jaedong has been under performing lately. But it takes a higher level of Stork fanboyism to try to say JD will be 50/50 with Stork.
OneOther, there is no point in discussions with you. You always try to insult others while ignoring all the comments that are directed to you. What makes it worse is that, you're an actual TL staff and your cussing behavior makes you seem like a new TL member that just joined a week ago
I actually don't think you can reply back to my post without cussing and throwing out insults. I welcome you to try though
On November 09 2008 12:08 Athos wrote: After watching the games between Stork and Jaedong in the WCG, I noticed that all three games were incredibly close. There were moments in each game where either play had a chance to win the game. Stork may have won, but Jaedong was clearly playing on the same level. Hell, I don't think PvZ can even be played at a higher level than that.
I disagree. Check out Jaedong vs Bisu on Andromeda
Its very hypocritical to say me + others are blinded by JD fanboyism. Yes, Jaedong has been under performing lately. But it takes a higher level of Stork fanboyism to try to say JD will be 50/50 with Stork.
OneOther, there is no point in discussions with you. You always try to insult others while ignoring all the comments that are directed to you. What makes it worse is that, you're an actual TL staff and your cussing behavior makes you seem like a new TL member that just joined a week ago
I actually don't think you can reply back to my post without cussing and throwing out insults. I welcome you to try though
Has everyone forgotten Bisu vs Jaedong on Blue Storm? Best PvZ EVER, so much better than the Holy Wars IMO.
I think Stork pretty badly beat JD today. He's clearly playing at a higher level at the moment. I urge you to check out this post to explain exactly why game 3 was genius on Stork's part.
Normally, I would favor JD in a one-on-one match simply because his record in that matchup is stronger, but I don't think that in itself makes a better player.
So Stork didn't outplay him gamewise? He just played mindgames? Is that what you're saying or am I missing something? Mind games |=Jaedong's ZvP is getting worse.
On November 09 2008 12:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: So Stork didn't outplay him gamewise? He just played mindgames? Is that what you're saying or am I missing something? Mind games |=Jaedong's ZvP is getting worse.
Mindgames are part of the game. JD has benefited from it exorbitantly himself as he's one of the best at denying scouts and switching strategies mid-game to completely throw off opponents.
I can make no sweeping statements to suggest that JD's ZvP is declining terribly, but I do know that Stork is completely outmatching him at the moment and it feels like JD is in a bit of rut despite his fanboys' desperate cries to the contrary.
On November 09 2008 12:08 Athos wrote: After watching the games between Stork and Jaedong in the WCG, I noticed that all three games were incredibly close. There were moments in each game where either play had a chance to win the game. Stork may have won, but Jaedong was clearly playing on the same level. Hell, I don't think PvZ can even be played at a higher level than that.
I disagree. Check out Jaedong vs Bisu on Andromeda
Its very hypocritical to say me + others are blinded by JD fanboyism. Yes, Jaedong has been under performing lately. But it takes a higher level of Stork fanboyism to try to say JD will be 50/50 with Stork.
OneOther, there is no point in discussions with you. You always try to insult others while ignoring all the comments that are directed to you. What makes it worse is that, you're an actual TL staff and your cussing behavior makes you seem like a new TL member that just joined a week ago
I actually don't think you can reply back to my post without cussing and throwing out insults. I welcome you to try though
First of all, it does not take much to say that Stork is 50-50 with Jaedong. Go look at their WCG games, and watch Jaedong's latest ZvPs. I don't know how else to explain it.
I hate to say, you make the most ridiculous claims in this thread without any evidence. No matter how much explanation I give you, your biased view does not change at all. Then you call me a biased person who can't rank players at all. How it is possible to be wrong every single time is beyond me, Februarys. I don't ignore other people's comments, I give my opinions based on actual evidence and coherent arguments. You, on the other hand, have not posted a single half-decent post in this entire Power Ranking thread. Remember when TheTyraniad told you that I was objective, yet you somehow turned it into him agreeing with you that I am a subjective ranker, therefore I should never do these rankings. It's really simple man: make a mediocre point, backed up by some stuff, and I will reply with actual substance.
Now, how about you tell me why Stork doesn't deserve the OSL title? Every time I point out how blinded and wrong you are, you run away. I actually don't think you can make a post that makes sense,though. I dare you to try.
I guess you are right, there really is no need to have a discussion with you. Sorry to break it to you, you don't know what comes out of your mouth.
EDIT: Can you tell me which comments I have ignored? I think I gave valid arguments against every point people have made. Sometimes I agree with them, sometimes I don't. At least my posts show that I know what I am talking about.
On October 26 2008 05:34 Februarys wrote: I really hope FakeSteve does next month's PR rather than OneOther..We all know who is Stork's fanboy and biased toward JD
Having Fakesteve do the PR won't stop Stork from being #1. And OneOther is not subjective in his ranking as you pointed out in this pre-edited post. This month's Power rank is very accurate. Also keep in mind that there was a legitimate argument for putting Stork at 1'st and and he would certainly be 1'st if this PR was not objective.
I never disputed the fact of rankings of #1. I just pointed out that he seems very subjective from his posts and I'm glad you agree
On November 07 2008 17:08 Februarys wrote: I wish Stork had to face good zergs to win this OSL...it feels like his limit was untested and OSL champ was not really deserved because we already knew he had amazing, and possibly the best PvT
For example, i would be upset if FBH won a tournament without facing any Protoss players because it doesn't really test his skills seeing as how he has (or used to) weak TvP..he needs to show us that he's improved even his weakness....the same applies to Stork
On November 07 2008 17:01 Februarys wrote: Jaedong gets a few losses here and there and people start calling it 'mini slump' He went 1-2 verse Free (JD played too defensively and lost for it in game3) He lost against Yarnc (who is known to cause upsets, and not to mention ZvZ is seriously unsteady as luck gamble) He lost against one no-name toss (yes, but you cant win them all) He dropped a game to Frozean because of cheese rush
I hardly see Jaedong as disappointing...
He's qualified for WCG, GOM, and bashing up proleague matches left and right
The reason so many Terrans recently have cheesed him is because even JD's weakest MU, ZvT, is too scary for these medicore Terrans to face straight up. (For example, look at how happy and surprised Frozean was after beating JD recently)
ZvZ, one micro mistake and the whole game might turn on you.
ZvP, JD is still a god at it but as long as his ZvP winrate is not 100%, you know its possible for JD to lose a game right?
On November 04 2008 02:58 Februarys wrote: He's already proved himself to be a ZvT monster before his ZvP started shining, and 4-4 win loss record vs terrans is highly debatable. Frozean was able to snatch a win through a Terran imba cheese bunker rush, there is no way he would win in a straight up TvZ vs JD. Secondly, yes that 0-3 loss verse forGG was horrendous, but lets not forget that those map pools were terran favored, and forGG is JD's teammate (the best person to analyze and study his builds)
On October 31 2008 00:50 Februarys wrote: 1 Bad month is not going to take away Jaedong's yearly dominance as a monster..I still see him as a very dominant player in all matchups
You know he did lose in ZvZ and his ZvP, arguably his best Matchups, but you still have to lose some right? As long as his % in those matchups is not 100%, the guy has to lose few games here and there. Boxer or Savior during their prime still lost games
Oh well, stork fanboys must be having the time of their lives. No matter how much they say Stork is #1, I bet they're still nervous when they watch JD vs Stork games since JD is the clear favorite, despite this bo3 win at WCG. If only it was BO5...
I hope the above post proves my point. That's the definition of blind fanboyism. I know I like Stork, but I do my best to stay reasonable and fair, and most importantly, objective. I am not so sure about you though, Februrarys.
Jaedong the clear favorite no matter what = subjective. Jaedong loses a bo3 and you say "only if bo5." will you say "only if bo7" if JD loses a bo5?
Seriously, how can you say that I am subjective/biased when I put Jaedong over Stork at the highly disputed #1 spot? Hypocritical...what?
On November 09 2008 12:08 Athos wrote: After watching the games between Stork and Jaedong in the WCG, I noticed that all three games were incredibly close. There were moments in each game where either play had a chance to win the game. Stork may have won, but Jaedong was clearly playing on the same level. Hell, I don't think PvZ can even be played at a higher level than that.
I disagree. Check out Jaedong vs Bisu on Andromeda
Its very hypocritical to say me + others are blinded by JD fanboyism. Yes, Jaedong has been under performing lately. But it takes a higher level of Stork fanboyism to try to say JD will be 50/50 with Stork.
OneOther, there is no point in discussions with you. You always try to insult others while ignoring all the comments that are directed to you. What makes it worse is that, you're an actual TL staff and your cussing behavior makes you seem like a new TL member that just joined a week ago
I actually don't think you can reply back to my post without cussing and throwing out insults. I welcome you to try though
Let me clarify. I wasn't refering refering to just protoss versus zerg, but zerg versus protoss as well. I mean to say, that not only Stork, but Jaedong as well are playing at a phenomenally high level. A level so high, that whoever makes the first little mistake will most likely lose the game. Stork has clearly proven in these games that he is able to keep up with the beast that is Jaedong.
As for that game between Jaedong and Bisu on Andromeda; it wasn't really a one-sided game. I remember that it was a standard hydralisk vs corsair reaver match that comes down to micro in the end. Heck, Jaedong even sniped a shuttle with 2 reavers in it. There is no doubt that corsair reaver is an extremely difficult and powerful build order, but Bisu isn't the only one who is capable of using it at such a level. Remember Stork vs. Luxury on Andromeda during the proleague finals? Stork uses the same build Bisu used and wins in style. Statistically or mechanically one can argue that Bisu may still be the better zerg sniper overall, but that's not the point I'm going for. The point I'm making is that Stork is capable hanging with the best zergs in the world, at least right now.
Also, I am by no means a Stork fanboy. I love Jaedong, and I think its a crying shame he was eliminated by free due to imba maps in the MSL. I just have acknowledge the mastery with which Stork is playing right now.
Thanks for quoting all my posts. Yes, my post are biased favoring JD, just like your posts are biased favoring Stork. If you read my posts carefully, I do backup my claims with stats and history of the games. Your ridiculous claim that I just randomly spout comments without evidence is laughable. You should know more than anyone else that I do add reasoning and past games as support since you're the person who took the time to quote six of my posts. Anyway, congratulations for replying back without insults and negative language, and FYI, I've always backed up my claims with supporting evidence
On November 09 2008 13:54 Februarys wrote: Thanks for quoting all my posts. Yes, my post are biased favoring JD, just like your posts are biased favoring Stork. If you read my posts carefully, I do backup my claims with stats and history of the games. Your ridiculous claim that I just randomly spout comments without evidence is laughable. You should know more than anyone else that I do add reasoning and past games as support since you're the person who took the time to quote six of my posts. Anyway, congratulations for replying back without insults and negative language, and FYI, I've always backed up my claims with supporting evidence
I like Stork, but I don't make extremely blinded claims like you do.
On October 26 2008 05:34 Februarys wrote: I really hope FakeSteve does next month's PR rather than OneOther..We all know who is Stork's fanboy and biased toward JD
Having Fakesteve do the PR won't stop Stork from being #1. And OneOther is not subjective in his ranking as you pointed out in this pre-edited post. This month's Power rank is very accurate. Also keep in mind that there was a legitimate argument for putting Stork at 1'st and and he would certainly be 1'st if this PR was not objective.
I never disputed the fact of rankings of #1. I just pointed out that he seems very subjective from his posts and I'm glad you agree
Don't know what to tell you here..lol.
On November 07 2008 17:08 Februarys wrote: I wish Stork had to face good zergs to win this OSL...it feels like his limit was untested and OSL champ was not really deserved because we already knew he had amazing, and possibly the best PvT
For example, i would be upset if FBH won a tournament without facing any Protoss players because it doesn't really test his skills seeing as how he has (or used to) weak TvP..he needs to show us that he's improved even his weakness....the same applies to Stork
Right. Stork doesn't deserve the OSL because he didn't face any Zergs. Have you looked at previous OSL winners? Many of them avoid their weakest matchups. Beats BeSt, Bisu, then Fantasy. Yet undeserved OSL title? Wow.
On November 07 2008 17:01 Februarys wrote: Jaedong gets a few losses here and there and people start calling it 'mini slump' He went 1-2 verse Free (JD played too defensively and lost for it in game3) He lost against Yarnc (who is known to cause upsets, and not to mention ZvZ is seriously unsteady as luck gamble) He lost against one no-name toss (yes, but you cant win them all) He dropped a game to Frozean because of cheese rush
I hardly see Jaedong as disappointing...
He's qualified for WCG, GOM, and bashing up proleague matches left and right
The reason so many Terrans recently have cheesed him is because even JD's weakest MU, ZvT, is too scary for these medicore Terrans to face straight up. (For example, look at how happy and surprised Frozean was after beating JD recently)
ZvZ, one micro mistake and the whole game might turn on you.
ZvP, JD is still a god at it but as long as his ZvP winrate is not 100%, you know its possible for JD to lose a game right?
JD is a god at ZvP? Evidence? I don't see any besides his recent losses to various Protoss players. Your evidence is merely "he can't win them all."
On November 04 2008 02:58 Februarys wrote: He's already proved himself to be a ZvT monster before his ZvP started shining, and 4-4 win loss record vs terrans is highly debatable. Frozean was able to snatch a win through a Terran imba cheese bunker rush, there is no way he would win in a straight up TvZ vs JD. Secondly, yes that 0-3 loss verse forGG was horrendous, but lets not forget that those map pools were terran favored, and forGG is JD's teammate (the best person to analyze and study his builds)
ZvT "monster"? It's actually pretty shaky. So I guess in your book, Jaedong never actually straight up loses.
On October 31 2008 00:50 Februarys wrote: 1 Bad month is not going to take away Jaedong's yearly dominance as a monster..I still see him as a very dominant player in all matchups
You know he did lose in ZvZ and his ZvP, arguably his best Matchups, but you still have to lose some right? As long as his % in those matchups is not 100%, the guy has to lose few games here and there. Boxer or Savior during their prime still lost games
Your evidence = "you have to lose some." + bias.
Oh well, stork fanboys must be having the time of their lives. No matter how much they say Stork is #1, I bet they're still nervous when they watch JD vs Stork games since JD is the clear favorite, despite this bo3 win at WCG. If only it was BO5...
one word = blind fanboyism. ask anyone else.
If you think I am so subjective, why do you think I put Jaedong as #1 over Stork? When I evaluate players, I take the bias out of the equation. Your posts = fanboyism.
EPT
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