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9070 Posts
On November 09 2008 10:47 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2008 06:59 OneOther wrote:On November 09 2008 05:30 Februarys wrote:On November 08 2008 21:59 Geo.Rion wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Stork beat JD 2-1.
First game was quite standard at the beginning hydra pressure, Stork psuhed out with a gorund army +2 reavers, than tried a dt drop. Than JD's late-mutas came out sniped every hightemplar and won the battle.
Second game, JD failed to bust the front door of stork, cuz there were many canons. Stork gone for goon+reaver which cannot really be beaten with hydras. GG again
Third game, standard at the start 4 base vs 2 base sair+reaver, than JD sends 16 hydras with 4 overlords in Stork's main for suicide. After this, Stork just pushes out and runs over JD + Show Spoiler +On 3rd game, after JD picked mines off of Stork's other entrance, stork concentrated his probes on the right cannon. With the number of lings, (and he was constantly producing lings) , he could have easily taken down the unprotected left cannon, and cannon break easily.
Oh well, stork fanboys must be having the time of their lives. No matter how much they say Stork is #1, I bet they're still nervous when they watch JD vs Stork games since JD is the clear favorite, despite this bo3 win at WCG. If only it was BO5... lol Stork beats JD and you still say JD is the favorite. How does Stork become a favorite in that matchup bud? Okay, your fanboyism has to stop somewhere, I mean it's getting irratating for me, a Jaedong fanboy. Did you watch the 3rd game? That was Jaedong's loss and not Stork's win and for me, that's why Jaedong is still the favorite.
JD sucks, just admit it, he is nowhere near his former self and its not just the questionable ZvT that was always bothering most of his fans. Jaedong suffered lately random defeats in all MUs, he is out of shape I dont see why are you denying it. Stork is on fire, I will put my money on him vs JD anytime nowadays. Its not a matter of pure skills. The Dinotoss is just dominant and consistent, so focused and determent. On the other hand JD is quite shaken and I think out of his mind. No matter the close result of the series, stork won the psychological battle before the match has begun, he typed "gogogo 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a" with the thought that he will beat JD. The legend killer is stating that he will kill everyone in GOM, that he is confident in winning the hole thing and its no afraid of anyone, but it is not so. You know why Federer was beating all the other chumps so badly 2 years ago? Because he was stepping in the match with the "I cant lose this match" thought and his opponents were like "Jee... I sure cant win"... Thats why Stork and Bisu are so scary lately, because they just know that they are gonna win
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It's too early to tell if JD sucks now or if it's a glitch. I will admit that right now Stork vs Jaedong is 50/50. I don't see why 4 losses = Jaedong sucks. How can I deny something that's not true? Oh, that would mean I'm right.
Typing gogogogo 1a2a3a4a5a = having the psych of a winner? Let's try not to feed off of each other's posts and give increasingly pointless arguments.
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9070 Posts
there is quite a difference from one loss to another. Jd was dropping a ZvP from time to time (vs Bisu on Andromeda), can you compare the way he played that game with the the way he performed today? Where was the famous control, game sense and multitasking? Today he was just another zerg. And just like ... dunno maybe FSteve pointed in one of his post, JD doesnt drop games because of major mistakes, he just gets outplayed when he loses. And the fact is he is getting outplayed far more often than he used to
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This is true, but we have such a small sample size to work with. Jaedong plays a different kind of ZvP than before. I'm going to blame it on the maps (not all of it) because the old maps like Katrina and Blue Storm had a central point of defense where Jaedong could seemingly put up an impenetrable defense until Ultras. It's only 2 unreasonable losses (Roro+Sangho). He's still a top progamer, but I am curious how he will performance in the following month+prelims.
FS, can you give a reason why you are delaying the PR, is it for more games to help with the order?
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"JD sucks, just admit it, he is nowhere near his former self"
that part is wrog imo. JD sucks? is there a better zerg atm? and how many players do you think are better.. 5.. maybe 10??? so no, jd doesnt suck. He is nowhere near his former self? not dominant i agree, but if i recall correctly jaedong was first known for his amazing zvt and his poor zvp, so droping games here and there, and losing 2 series of zvp 1-2 is not like jaedong is now a sucker. Moreover, his lose to free was very tight: in game 3 jd takes a bad choice and free counters well. Game 1 was a good defence from free, and game 2 was a good atack from jd. In fact from that series is pretty obvious to me that jd is not sucking go watch yarnc vs jangbi and you got a zvp that sucks.
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Can we have a sort of UnPowerRank to highlight the differences of the Progamers? Maybe a 5ppl list. For fun satire.
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United States10774 Posts
disciple is the man.
Top 3 in my opinion:
1. Stork
2. Bisu
3. Free
Rest are very close with Kal/Jaedong/JangBi
am I forgetting anyone in the mix?
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United States10774 Posts
On November 09 2008 11:27 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This is true, but we have such a small sample size to work with. Jaedong plays a different kind of ZvP than before. I'm going to blame it on the maps (not all of it) because the old maps like Katrina and Blue Storm had a central point of defense where Jaedong could seemingly put up an impenetrable defense until Ultras. It's only 2 unreasonable losses (Roro+Sangho). He's still a top progamer, but I am curious how he will performance in the following month+prelims.
FS, can you give a reason why you are delaying the PR, is it for more games to help with the order?
What do you consider a sufficient sample size? I mean, a progamer only plays a certain number of games per month, and that's what we have to work with. We need to look beyond the matchlist; we need to consider the quality of opponents and the actual games. As disciple pointed out, Jaedong was not cheesed. He got outplayed. I think we can all agree Jaedong has been under-performing, while others have been playing at their best.
Anyone who still thinks Jaedong is a favorite verses Stork...well, your fanboyism is blinding you.
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On November 09 2008 11:47 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2008 11:27 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This is true, but we have such a small sample size to work with. Jaedong plays a different kind of ZvP than before. I'm going to blame it on the maps (not all of it) because the old maps like Katrina and Blue Storm had a central point of defense where Jaedong could seemingly put up an impenetrable defense until Ultras. It's only 2 unreasonable losses (Roro+Sangho). He's still a top progamer, but I am curious how he will performance in the following month+prelims.
FS, can you give a reason why you are delaying the PR, is it for more games to help with the order? What do you consider a sufficient sample size? I mean, a progamer only plays a certain number of games per month, and that's what we have to work with. We need to look beyond the matchlist; we need to consider the quality of opponents and the actual games. As disciple pointed out, Jaedong was not cheesed. He got outplayed. I think we can all agree Jaedong has been under-performing, while others have been playing at their best. Anyone who still thinks Jaedong is a favorite verses Stork...well, your fanboyism is blinding you.
3 Months can give a definite answer. Took longer for Flash, though that was a mistake. Also, please note my later post that agrees with your 50/50 argument. Geez, it's posts like these that completely disregards my post that makes me irate toward your attitude,
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I should remind you that you have no fucking evidence for saying stork's pvz is awesome
you have one 2-1 victory over JD in WCG, and NOTHING ELSE.
the fact that stork has not played any good zergs in forever, and yet you still insist that not only is stork the best pvz in existence, but the favorite against every zerg but jaedong who he has at least 50% chance against is ridiculous.
Don't forget that the last time they played before this, it was 2-0 for jaedong.
You want to say he deserves #1 for power rank? Go for it, I dont think anyone will argue with you.
You want to say he has the best PvT and arguably the best PvP? Go for it.
You want to say hes the best at PvZ when historically hes been at best mediocre, and you really have no evidence he changed (how many zergs did he meet this OSL?) I'm not sure I can support you on that.
And thats why its fanboyism.
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United States10774 Posts
I read your post - I am talking to people who "still think" Jaedong is the favorite. How about you take time to carefully read my post before you spew elephant shit all over the place?
Power Ranking comes out once a month, therefore we work with the month's data.
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On November 09 2008 11:47 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2008 11:27 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This is true, but we have such a small sample size to work with. Jaedong plays a different kind of ZvP than before. I'm going to blame it on the maps (not all of it) because the old maps like Katrina and Blue Storm had a central point of defense where Jaedong could seemingly put up an impenetrable defense until Ultras. It's only 2 unreasonable losses (Roro+Sangho). He's still a top progamer, but I am curious how he will performance in the following month+prelims.
FS, can you give a reason why you are delaying the PR, is it for more games to help with the order? What do you consider a sufficient sample size? I mean, a progamer only plays a certain number of games per month, and that's what we have to work with. We need to look beyond the matchlist; we need to consider the quality of opponents and the actual games. As disciple pointed out, Jaedong was not cheesed. He got outplayed. I think we can all agree Jaedong has been under-performing, while others have been playing at their best. Anyone who still thinks Jaedong is a favorite verses Stork...well, your fanboyism is blinding you.
On November 09 2008 11:54 OneOther wrote:
I read your post - I am talking to people who "still think" Jaedong is the favorite. How about you take time to carefully read my post before you spew elephant shit all over the place?
Power Ranking comes out once a month, therefore we work with the month's data.
And then you said "your fanboyism is blind you" which clearly implies you were talking to me when you said that. I agreed with your point. Read your own post carefully, I won't cuss.
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United States10774 Posts
On November 09 2008 11:53 fusionsdf wrote:
I should remind you that you have no fucking evidence for saying stork's pvz is awesome
you have one 2-1 victory over JD in WCG, and NOTHING ELSE.
the fact that stork has not played any good zergs in forever, and yet you still insist that not only is stork the best pvz in existence, but the favorite against every zerg but jaedong who he has at least 50% chance against is ridiculous.
Don't forget that the last time they played before this, it was 2-0 for jaedong.
You want to say he deserves #1 for power rank? Go for it, I dont think anyone will argue with you.
You want to say he has the best PvT and arguably the best PvP? Go for it.
You want to say hes the best at PvZ when historically hes been at best mediocre, and you really have no evidence he changed (how many zergs did he meet this OSL?) I'm not sure I can support you on that.
And thats why its fanboyism.
fusionsdf, are you fucking retarded?
Nobody said that Stork is the best at PvZ. However, there really isn't any Zerg who is a favorite over Stork right now, and Stork is 50-50 against Jaedong. FACE IT, please. He just won a bo3 series against him a couple hours ago. I don't see how you can claim otherwise. Stork has been unbeatable, while Jaedong's ZvP has been shaky. I don't know if it's because you don't watch StarCraft, or you are just too awful at the game, you have no idea what you are talking about. Get a clue, buddy.
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United States10774 Posts
On November 09 2008 11:58 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2008 11:47 OneOther wrote:On November 09 2008 11:27 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This is true, but we have such a small sample size to work with. Jaedong plays a different kind of ZvP than before. I'm going to blame it on the maps (not all of it) because the old maps like Katrina and Blue Storm had a central point of defense where Jaedong could seemingly put up an impenetrable defense until Ultras. It's only 2 unreasonable losses (Roro+Sangho). He's still a top progamer, but I am curious how he will performance in the following month+prelims.
FS, can you give a reason why you are delaying the PR, is it for more games to help with the order? What do you consider a sufficient sample size? I mean, a progamer only plays a certain number of games per month, and that's what we have to work with. We need to look beyond the matchlist; we need to consider the quality of opponents and the actual games. As disciple pointed out, Jaedong was not cheesed. He got outplayed. I think we can all agree Jaedong has been under-performing, while others have been playing at their best. Anyone who still thinks Jaedong is a favorite verses Stork...well, your fanboyism is blinding you. Show nested quote +On November 09 2008 11:54 OneOther wrote:
I read your post - I am talking to people who "still think" Jaedong is the favorite. How about you take time to carefully read my post before you spew elephant shit all over the place?
Power Ranking comes out once a month, therefore we work with the month's data. And then you said " your fanboyism is blind you" which clearly implies you were talking to me when you said that. Read your own post carefully, I won't cuss.
Uh, no, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to that "anyone."
I don't see how that sentence makes you think I was talking to you. Lol. Come on now.
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On November 09 2008 12:01 OneOther wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2008 11:58 Avidkeystamper wrote:On November 09 2008 11:47 OneOther wrote:On November 09 2008 11:27 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This is true, but we have such a small sample size to work with. Jaedong plays a different kind of ZvP than before. I'm going to blame it on the maps (not all of it) because the old maps like Katrina and Blue Storm had a central point of defense where Jaedong could seemingly put up an impenetrable defense until Ultras. It's only 2 unreasonable losses (Roro+Sangho). He's still a top progamer, but I am curious how he will performance in the following month+prelims.
FS, can you give a reason why you are delaying the PR, is it for more games to help with the order? What do you consider a sufficient sample size? I mean, a progamer only plays a certain number of games per month, and that's what we have to work with. We need to look beyond the matchlist; we need to consider the quality of opponents and the actual games. As disciple pointed out, Jaedong was not cheesed. He got outplayed. I think we can all agree Jaedong has been under-performing, while others have been playing at their best. Anyone who still thinks Jaedong is a favorite verses Stork...well, your fanboyism is blinding you. On November 09 2008 11:54 OneOther wrote:
I read your post - I am talking to people who "still think" Jaedong is the favorite. How about you take time to carefully read my post before you spew elephant shit all over the place?
Power Ranking comes out once a month, therefore we work with the month's data. And then you said " your fanboyism is blind you" which clearly implies you were talking to me when you said that. Read your own post carefully, I won't cuss. Uh, no, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to that "anyone."
I was mislead by the use of the words "you" and "your".
And the fact you said I was blinded by my fanboyism when I agreed with you.
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United States10774 Posts
On November 09 2008 12:01 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2008 12:01 OneOther wrote:On November 09 2008 11:58 Avidkeystamper wrote:On November 09 2008 11:47 OneOther wrote:On November 09 2008 11:27 Avidkeystamper wrote:
This is true, but we have such a small sample size to work with. Jaedong plays a different kind of ZvP than before. I'm going to blame it on the maps (not all of it) because the old maps like Katrina and Blue Storm had a central point of defense where Jaedong could seemingly put up an impenetrable defense until Ultras. It's only 2 unreasonable losses (Roro+Sangho). He's still a top progamer, but I am curious how he will performance in the following month+prelims.
FS, can you give a reason why you are delaying the PR, is it for more games to help with the order? What do you consider a sufficient sample size? I mean, a progamer only plays a certain number of games per month, and that's what we have to work with. We need to look beyond the matchlist; we need to consider the quality of opponents and the actual games. As disciple pointed out, Jaedong was not cheesed. He got outplayed. I think we can all agree Jaedong has been under-performing, while others have been playing at their best. Anyone who still thinks Jaedong is a favorite verses Stork...well, your fanboyism is blinding you. On November 09 2008 11:54 OneOther wrote:
I read your post - I am talking to people who "still think" Jaedong is the favorite. How about you take time to carefully read my post before you spew elephant shit all over the place?
Power Ranking comes out once a month, therefore we work with the month's data. And then you said " your fanboyism is blind you" which clearly implies you were talking to me when you said that. Read your own post carefully, I won't cuss. Uh, no, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to that "anyone." I was mislead by the use of the words "you" and "your".
Okay well I don't think this is worth arguing over. I was referring to anyone that's out there who still thinks that.  Sort of like talking to them.
edit: Haha I read your post, I wouldn't call you a blinded fanboy when you obviously agreed with me.
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Everything's been argued to death already, no PL, bah, if Stork loses to Luxury's ZvP, cows are gonna fly.
Most controversial PR ever?
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On November 09 2008 11:53 fusionsdf wrote:
I should remind you that you have no fucking evidence for saying stork's pvz is awesome
you have one 2-1 victory over JD in WCG, and NOTHING ELSE.
the fact that stork has not played any good zergs in forever, and yet you still insist that not only is stork the best pvz in existence, but the favorite against every zerg but jaedong who he has at least 50% chance against is ridiculous.
Don't forget that the last time they played before this, it was 2-0 for jaedong.
You want to say he deserves #1 for power rank? Go for it, I dont think anyone will argue with you.
You want to say he has the best PvT and arguably the best PvP? Go for it.
You want to say hes the best at PvZ when historically hes been at best mediocre, and you really have no evidence he changed (how many zergs did he meet this OSL?) I'm not sure I can support you on that.
And thats why its fanboyism.
I read this post, and I immediately went 'WTF OneOther claimed Stork had the best PvZ !?!?!??!?!?!'
Then I read OneOther's post... and I noticed he hadn't. I actually agree with him here, if Stork's PvZ wasn't good, Jaedong would have rolled him. (I haven't watched the games yet though, so correct me if I am wrong)
OneOther, I think your ranking is accurate, but I believe that BeSt and Fantasy should be up there with Jangbi/Kal/Jaedong, or maybe right below them.
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After watching the games between Stork and Jaedong in the WCG, I noticed that all three games were incredibly close. There were moments in each game where either play had a chance to win the game. Stork may have won, but Jaedong was clearly playing on the same level. Hell, I don't think PvZ can even be played at a higher level than that.
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Jaedong sure likes dropping in heavily defended areas, huh?
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EPT
