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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
Luxury beat Stork I'm saying It's not 50/50 for Jaedong vs Stork anymore. You have to consider how Stork won those games, it wasn't through his gameplay. He won through being defensive (BO?) and through mindgames. + Show Spoiler + Luxury's ZvP is not impressive. It shows that even if Stork is hot, his PvZ hasn't improved. It's still doable, okay even, but an improvement. | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On November 10 2008 02:02 adelarge wrote: Then what about ForGG? Winner of last MSL? ForGG is still a great player and yet he is sitting on 9th place and it seems nobody has problem with that. He won last MSL (big achivement like Jaedong recent good results), he didn't make it into OSL (like Jaedong) and he got kicked from MSL the exact round like Jaedong...and finally, he is doing really good in PL, like...you know who. You either count past achivements and in that case, why the hell is ForGG 8 places behind Jaedong??, or you don't and then JD shouldn't be ahead of Flash. And if you are listing WCG Korea or GOM in JD's favor, you should also take into consideration how early he got knocked from OSL..that shouldn't happend to anyone who wants to be in top 3. And yet, JD is happily sitting on 1st place. And edit to your edit  The one win doesn't matter much. I remember Mind raping Jaedong two times in PL in straight-up games in span of cca two weeks and he didn't even make it to CNBC. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against JD. And I don't care if he is one place above Flash in next PR or something like that. I just find totally ridicilous placing JD in top 3 and Flash in bottom 5... i had problem with that, i said several times that he's underrated. And one win doesnt matter much, but if you didn't got better you use that too. They didnt made far in the leauges, JD fucked up the qulifires, got eliminated from MSL by a good opponent, while flash got eliminated by 2 not that great players. The gap between them isn't too large, but more clues are needed tho change them up | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On November 10 2008 02:08 Avidkeystamper wrote: Okay guys + Show Spoiler + Luxury beat Stork I'm saying It's not 50/50 for Jaedong vs Stork anymore. You have to consider how Stork won those games, it wasn't through his gameplay. He won through being defensive (BO?) and through mindgames. + Show Spoiler + Luxury's ZvP is not impressive. It shows that even if Stork is hot, his PvZ hasn't improved. It's still doable, okay even, but an improvement. Come on now. Stork won those through mind play = gameplay. That's how you win games on imbalanced maps. Good strategies backed up by solid mechanics. Let's not take away what he did. I don't see how losing to Lux makes Stork's chance less verses Jaedong. That's like saying since BeSt lost to Stork, he has less chance of winning against Bisu. You know what I mean? Keep in mind, the maps are HEAVILY Zerg favored. This is not only my opinion, but also the opinions of Korean commentators and NonY. So yeah, be reasonable. Stork is STILL ahead verses Luxury. PvZ is such a volatile matchup :/ | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On November 10 2008 00:03 malongo wrote: oneother is having a hard time for next PR but i guess thats the idea. I remade my last PR based on the games i saw today on gomtv and wcg and added some comments. + Show Spoiler + 1 stork: this is protoss!!! yes hes on fire 2 bisu: as good as n1 but he still have to do something more to be 1. that being said his game has reached a new peak, his pvt is on top form and his pvz is da best in da wold. time to check his pvp again. 3 jaedong: omg no free? (see free below), i still cant see someone under jaedong being better overall. (and i see myself as a protoss biased fan) 4 best: hes so solid and thats his strenght, but thats his weak point too, because his solid game is based on standar builds and that makes him predictable. Best needs to evolve, taking more risks in 1 v 1 series or he will never see a starleague title (just as n1 before), he has to use the standars in pl and sharp his pvz. 5 free: i know, i have to argue about this. I just love this guy but, the fact is that he has just being free, just like sea is sometimes sea. He is a monster on pl, he is a monster at pvt and pvz (his pvp is not yet tested by the top p), but how many times has this being different? what would you say now if jaedong 2-1 free?? i have to say that best doesnt look better than free right now but he still looks more consistent to me, because free is just in *that* moment that can burst him to number 3/2 or send him back to be free. I just cant wait to see bisu-free. 6 flash: where are you? we need you... stop kicking fantasys ass and come to save us from never ending pvps. 7 jangbi: poor boy, 3 months ago he should have been top 5 at this same level, but look how many protoss are there playing better than him right now. 8 fantasy: he got silver. i dont think he played bad in fact he took the series to a 5 game that gives him this spot, but he is soo bad on pl, i dont have faith on him. I keep what i thought like 3 weeks ago, -overated after his win on ggplay meh.- 9 forgg: proleague only and some memories about a guy that was good at macro is what i have. still he is like 25% of lecaf so i guess he deserve this spot 10 calm: i was going to give this spot to ggplay but his game against mind on gomtv was... no words, and calm lost too but 1-2 to the best pvz in the world and HE DIDNT LOOK RAPED so that plus a very good pl record gives him this spot. close but no cigar -NO i dont see how kal can be top 10 => poor in pl, eliminated by effort 0-2 on osl getting lucky against stork and his road on msl. look at kal vs iris and the rest of the games, this guy is still on msl but i havent seen good play from him. -PUSAN!! no more protoss please.. but you are on your way back spirit toss. -hwasin-fbh-yarnc: actually not close not cigar THESE SUCK ATM -luxury: so bad performance on individual leagues. -saint: bisus old 2v2 partner has learned to 1v1 and is doing well on pl maybe we´ll see him on a future starleague I think FakeSteve said he was doing it.. If it's not posted by tomorrow I'll do it. Actually I'll do it later today | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On November 09 2008 07:26 OneOther wrote: No. Rather, I don't believe in giving undo credit. Frozean is not an amazing player because he beat Jaedong once. Stork is not a great pvz because he beat Jaedong in an unimportant tournament. yeah whenever JD loses we should never give credit to his opponents + Show Spoiler + Luxury is not > Stork just because he beat him in WCG either. | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
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strongwind
United States862 Posts
you know what I find funny? before Stork's OSL gold he won gold in WCG...and no one considered it legit. Now when he wins silver, everyone adds it to his collection! | ||
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TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
1. Stork - he is playing too well to be placed anywhere else, and getting results to boot. 2. Bisu - wtf, how did Stork and Bisu enter god mode at the same time? I feel like time is rewinding. 3. Free - this spot is somewhat questionable. Free is just as on fire as the two protoss above him, and is playing far better than he ever has. I am sad that his match against Bisu is the MSL semifinals and not the finals - I am looking forward to that quite a bit. 4. Jaedong - why jaedong? why have you not ruthlessly manhandled all opposition as you normally would? why are there 3 protoss above you in the power rank? why would I give all 3 of them at least even odds against you? Jaedong has been somewhat disappointing as of late. Hopefully this wont last. 5. Fantasy - you put up one good fight against Stork, and your OSL games were all amazing. But... its like you have an inferior twin who plays all of your other games. 6. Flash - Flash has been kinda under the radar, eliminated early from both major leagues. However, he is still playing well and has good results in Proleague and GOM. I admit to not watching most of Flash's games, so this position may be highly debatable. 7. BeSt - BeSt may be a dethroned PvP tyrant, but pretty much every player that isn't zerg or stork should get very nervous playing him. 8. Kal - Kal is amazing! sometimes. His games against Iris were painful, and not in a good way. But his games against Stork were very fun. Kal is hard to place. 9. Jangbi - Jangbi is playing really well, from the 3 games I have seen of him (3-0 Yarnc rape). I think Jangbi/Kal/BeSt are all even, and free is only a notch above. But I had to put non protoss players somewhere in the ranking. Jangbi deserves to be higher than #9, but so do a lot of people. Including people not even on the rank. 10. ForGG - speaking of people who also deserve to be higher than #9, that would be ForGG. ForGG is still good - he does well in proleague (ace match wins!), had a nice series with Stork, which he can't really be blamed for loosing. But despite this, he is somewhat inconspicuous. CBNC: Luxury, I guess. I haven't been watching his games either. FBH - I cannot tell if your TvP was waaaaaay overhyped or if Bisu is just that much better. Calm - a major staple of STX this season, he is really coming out. Much - just for helping Stork and being amazing. Pusan - yeah!!!!!! Pusan is doing well. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On November 10 2008 05:14 TarsTarkas wrote: I think that my Power rank would be something like 1. Stork - he is playing too well to be placed anywhere else, and getting results to boot. 2. Bisu - wtf, how did Stork and Bisu enter god mode at the same time? I feel like time is rewinding. 3. Free - this spot is somewhat questionable. Free is just as on fire as the two protoss above him, and is playing far better than he ever has. I am sad that his match against Bisu is the MSL semifinals and not the finals - I am looking forward to that quite a bit. 4. Jaedong - why jaedong? why have you not ruthlessly manhandled all opposition as you normally would? why are there 3 protoss above you in the power rank? why would I give all 3 of them at least even odds against you? Jaedong has been somewhat disappointing as of late. Hopefully this wont last. 5. Fantasy - you put up one good fight against Stork, and your OSL games were all amazing. But... its like you have an inferior twin who plays all of your other games. 6. Flash - Flash has been kinda under the radar, eliminated early from both major leagues. However, he is still playing well and has good results in Proleague and GOM. I admit to not watching most of Flash's games, so this position may be highly debatable. 7. BeSt - BeSt may be a dethroned PvP tyrant, but pretty much every player that isn't zerg or stork should get very nervous playing him. 8. Kal - Kal is amazing! sometimes. His games against Iris were painful, and not in a good way. But his games against Stork were very fun. Kal is hard to place. 9. Jangbi - Jangbi is playing really well, from the 3 games I have seen of him (3-0 Yarnc rape). I think Jangbi/Kal/BeSt are all even, and free is only a notch above. But I had to put non protoss players somewhere in the ranking. Jangbi deserves to be higher than #9, but so do a lot of people. Including people not even on the rank. 10. ForGG - speaking of people who also deserve to be higher than #9, that would be ForGG. ForGG is still good - he does well in proleague (ace match wins!), had a nice series with Stork, which he can't really be blamed for loosing. But despite this, he is somewhat inconspicuous. CBNC: Luxury, I guess. I haven't been watching his games either. FBH - I cannot tell if your TvP was waaaaaay overhyped or if Bisu is just that much better. Calm - a major staple of STX this season, he is really coming out. Much - just for helping Stork and being amazing. Pusan - yeah!!!!!! Pusan is doing well. Yesyes! Except with Calm, he had wins over less qualified opponents. Maybe Roro? Maybe. And lol@ Much love. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On November 10 2008 05:23 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yesyes! Except with Calm, he had wins over less qualified opponents. Maybe Roro? Maybe. And lol@ Much love. Agree somewhat with this rank except maybe Free over Bisu and Flash over fantasy . | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On November 10 2008 05:08 strongwind wrote: + Show Spoiler [wcg] + you know what I find funny? before Stork's OSL gold he won gold in WCG...and no one considered it legit. Now when he wins silver, and everyone adds it to his collection! No, WCG silver doesn't count in the competition between him and Yellow for The Silver, or anywhere, TL doesnt record's it either, just the wcg korea. But actually it might be funny that he comes out second once again, and once again facing an opponent that he should have beaten. | ||
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TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
On November 10 2008 05:38 raga4ka wrote: Agree somewhat with this rank except maybe Free over Bisu and Flash over fantasy . Yeah, I think Flash/Fantasy are pretty interchangeable. Same goes for Jangbi/Kal/BeSt. Bisu however, I feel pretty strongly about as second. His games have been amazing flawless pieces of art. Bisu has not just won his recent games, he has thoroughly dominated. Free just wins, albeit with style. Except Nada, who he dominated - but Nada was so un-Nada-like. Free is good, but I see him rather as in intermediary between Stork/Bisu and Kal/Jangbi/BeSt. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On November 10 2008 05:23 Avidkeystamper wrote: Yesyes! Except with Calm, he had wins over less qualified opponents. Maybe Roro? Maybe. And lol@ Much love. if we take the games played today Flash and Fantasy might get switched, rest is OK. RoRO for cbnc, why not | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
On November 10 2008 05:14 TarsTarkas wrote: I think that my Power rank would be something like 1. Stork - he is playing too well to be placed anywhere else, and getting results to boot. 2. Bisu - wtf, how did Stork and Bisu enter god mode at the same time? I feel like time is rewinding. 3. Free - this spot is somewhat questionable. Free is just as on fire as the two protoss above him, and is playing far better than he ever has. I am sad that his match against Bisu is the MSL semifinals and not the finals - I am looking forward to that quite a bit. 4. Jaedong - why jaedong? why have you not ruthlessly manhandled all opposition as you normally would? why are there 3 protoss above you in the power rank? why would I give all 3 of them at least even odds against you? Jaedong has been somewhat disappointing as of late. Hopefully this wont last. 5. Fantasy - you put up one good fight against Stork, and your OSL games were all amazing. But... its like you have an inferior twin who plays all of your other games. 6. Flash - Flash has been kinda under the radar, eliminated early from both major leagues. However, he is still playing well and has good results in Proleague and GOM. I admit to not watching most of Flash's games, so this position may be highly debatable. 7. BeSt - BeSt may be a dethroned PvP tyrant, but pretty much every player that isn't zerg or stork should get very nervous playing him. 8. Kal - Kal is amazing! sometimes. His games against Iris were painful, and not in a good way. But his games against Stork were very fun. Kal is hard to place. 9. Jangbi - Jangbi is playing really well, from the 3 games I have seen of him (3-0 Yarnc rape). I think Jangbi/Kal/BeSt are all even, and free is only a notch above. But I had to put non protoss players somewhere in the ranking. Jangbi deserves to be higher than #9, but so do a lot of people. Including people not even on the rank. 10. ForGG - speaking of people who also deserve to be higher than #9, that would be ForGG. ForGG is still good - he does well in proleague (ace match wins!), had a nice series with Stork, which he can't really be blamed for loosing. But despite this, he is somewhat inconspicuous. CBNC: Luxury, I guess. I haven't been watching his games either. FBH - I cannot tell if your TvP was waaaaaay overhyped or if Bisu is just that much better. Calm - a major staple of STX this season, he is really coming out. Much - just for helping Stork and being amazing. Pusan - yeah!!!!!! Pusan is doing well. Excellent ranking. Mine would be almost the same. And yeah,Calm deserves to get at least CNBC. Sea.Really,Leta,Much and Lomo are no way to be considered lesser opponents,and I am not even talking about his excellent performance against Bisu today. Calm is a great player,and I think the most promising of the upcoming Zerg players of Effort,Type-b and himself,because unlike these players,all of his MU's are strong. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
LEGEND OF THE FALL!~~ | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
ps my PR list is about 2 pages back | ||
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TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
On November 10 2008 07:16 malongo wrote: fantasy is SO overrated look at his pl performance and his last games, he is not a top notch player, flash, best and jangbi look like A LOT stronger than him. They have all about 3 times his proleague record and on individual leagues they have shown same results. He got eliminated from msl by hwasin and tempest (look at these 2 and compare them to flash best and jangbi). This is all true - for some reason, fantasy sucks when not playing OSL. I don't know why, his games don't look at all similar, they have no flair. His rank is also negotiable, but given his OSL performance I think where I have him is justified. | ||
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