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On November 02 2009 02:55 Slow Motion wrote:
I just don't believe that Bisu or Flash would have only fallen one spot from number one if they had as terrible a month as JD had.
If losing 2 games that mattered to courtain degree in PL is a terrible month then i don't know what will happen if Jaedong wins an other OSL and losses everything else he probably will get kicked out of the PR ...... Just because JD has played only six games and lost 3 ( 2 that mattered ) doesn't meen he's had a terrible month . He has had way more terrible months and was still # 1 on the PR . He lost to han in the offlines of the OSL a few seasons back and if i recall he was still # 1 on the PR and with good reason .
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i dont have a lto of time to write now, but i gotta say it was a ballsy move to rank JD second. Good PR all around
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Jaedong's lack of games are due to retarded coaching decisions in proleague that have Killer playing important and valuable Ace games (and losing them, where Jaedong would win) and the fact that he advanced so deep in both leagues he's seeded past the place we are in both tournaments. If he hadn't gotten those seeds last season he would have had an opportunity to pad his record by smashing lower ranked players this month like some of the others on the PR. That's why Jaedong's place on the rank isn't as susceptible to movement *this month* as other players. He's got a bye in the individual leagues and it shouldn't be counted against him until he starts playing those games.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 02 2009 03:02 Zato-1 wrote:
I appreciate the effort, but I liked JWD's PRs much better- I can't relate to this one at all.
Each writer looks at PR a different way. JWD was probably the PR writer who focused more on results than any other PR writer (not that thats a bad thing, it's at his discretion). So if you think results speak volumes then yea, I can see why you'd like JWDs ranks more. If you think that the game quality and context have anything to do with it - then you'd probably enjoy etter's rankings and steves rankings a lot more. I think riptide has a balance between the two tbh!
I gotta say though, Flash getting dropped from the PR when he was destroying GOM was just so utterly wrong =/
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Nice power rank. I didn't know Shine or Stork did so well this month. Gonna check out their recent vods now.
Good job Riptide
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Jaedong #2??? I have laughted the shit out of my pants
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Why hasn't Hwasin been mentioned at all? 5-1 and made in into both leagues and he's not even a CBNC?
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I really don't think it's justifiable to put JD at #2. Putting him above Calm is ridiculous, as is putting him above Stork. Above Bisu is fine, as Bisu did lose that series to Shine. Fantasy at 6 is funny. Kal is playing much better than Movie in every matchup except pvz. Yeah, we're impressed by it because everyone else is failing at pvz (besides Flying), but it's no excuse for a terrible, terrible pvp.
There is one player who I think should be on the CBNC at the least, Ruby. He's qualified for both leagues right after transferring to Ace and been playing very well.
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United States10328 Posts
FLASHHHHHHHHHHHH <3
yeah I think jaedong should be below calm and stork... :/ losing too much ZvZ here. But ZvZ is ZvZ I guess... maybe some of his JvZ luster is falling off?
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
This isn't a black and white argument.
The power rank is neither a judgment of who the best players in BW are, nor is it some kind of reward for having a good month. In fact, the best PR's are a mix of the two, they should seek to balance past performance and current play.
 Jaedong had an awful month. I find his rank at #2 incredibly bizarre, because he went 3-3, this month, with embarrassing losses that led to embarrassing 0-3's for his team. Consider if  Stork had a month like that, losing a bunch of games in his best MU, and having Khan get 0-3'd every time (well, that much is true at least). Stork wouldn't even make this PR! Jaedong, as last month's #1, is entitled to some respect, and we all know that he has the potential to roar back in this next month. Yet keeping Jaedong at #2 is to completely ignore how vulnerable his flagship match-up has looked recently. I just don't get it.
The more I look at this rank, the less I'm able to reconcile some of the justifications here. So much of it is based on the past, nothing really seems to reflect the reality of this month. This feels like last month's PR, with the obvious stragglers - Iris, YellOw[ArnC] removed.
And while focus has shifted towards Movie for some strange reason, I think Pusan AND RuBy have both played excellently, and definately stronger than Kal. I just don't get #10 Kal at all.
On November 02 2009 03:22 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 03:02 Zato-1 wrote:
I appreciate the effort, but I liked JWD's PRs much better- I can't relate to this one at all. Each writer looks at PR a different way. JWD was probably the PR writer who focused more on results than any other PR writer (not that thats a bad thing, it's at his discretion). So if you think results speak volumes then yea, I can see why you'd like JWDs ranks more. If you think that the game quality and context have anything to do with it - then you'd probably enjoy etter's rankings and steves rankings a lot more. I think riptide has a balance between the two tbh! I gotta say though, Flash getting dropped from the PR when he was destroying GOM was just so utterly wrong =/
I think JWD was mostly right, although all anyone remembers was "No Flash" and "ZerO>Jaedong". Riptide's PR seems highly based on pedigree. In that same month, Flash also fell out of the OSL and MSl though. Nobody cared about GOM.
EDIT for three posts below.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 02 2009 03:38 pvzvt wrote:i must say i thought this will be the most contreversial power rank ever but you managed to hit the nail in the coffin. great PR !!! cant say like most others that i would like some people higher and some lower but your explanations are logical and i cant disagree with none of your choices , great job and bravo for making the hardest pr in my memory to be the calmest in remarks  So you can not... disagree... with none of the choices. So you can disagree with all of the choices?
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On November 02 2009 03:05 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 03:02 Zato-1 wrote:
I can agree with 2 of this month's placements: Flash and Fantasy. I'm usually all for giving the PR creator a generous amount of discretion, but... this time, the placements were generally off the mark IMO. There's plenty of names I'd have shuffled around- generally the same ones you claimed would be contested. JD at #2 is... just... wrong.
I appreciate the effort, but I liked JWD's PRs much better- I can't relate to this one at all. Why? Because its skt biased? Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 03:00 raga4ka wrote:On November 02 2009 02:51 MuffinDude wrote:On November 02 2009 02:49 raga4ka wrote:On November 02 2009 01:13 JWD wrote:
I strongly object to JD at 2. He has let down his team more than any other player in PL thus far, and for it he loses one spot in the PR? I think it's sad to see him so far ahead of players that beat him quite soundly this month. Uh he let down his team more then any other player my ass ... He lost 2 games 1 against SKT and 1 against KTF even if he did win them his team was still probably going to lose if his teammates can't win a game ..... Not to mention that the coach is sending Killer to do a Jaedong's job and that's probably JD's fault to ? He beat Zero for his team to take the win against WJ in the ACE match no one else on Hwaseung could beat Zero . JD losing 2 games isn't the big part why his team is losing it's because his teammates can't win an a regular basis . But he lost to hyuk and 815. Okay, hyuk is beasting it right now, but its still hyuk. Calm lost to Roro in the ACE match who after that was beaten by savior's ZvZ . Those this meen Calm is bad at ZvZ and should be lower on the rank ? i don't think so .... Calm only lost once and jaedong lost to hyuk and 815, and 815 hasn't done shit yet.
On a good day i think even i can take a good # of games of JD if I 9 pool speed and he 12 hat on a 2 players map . It's a risky build like 14 cc , but a lot more common in ZvZ . In ZvZ there is always a build that counters the other to a certain degree , but 9 pool speed against 12 hat is considered a BO loss it's got nothing to do with how good your opponent is and how bad you are .
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It's great to see a PR that respects performance prior to the month at hand. To be honest, riptide could have juggled ranks 2-5 any which way and been right, but placing Jaedong at 2 shows (at least to my partisan heart) that he knows how to weigh all the facts and deliver judgment impartially. riptide's probably the best new writer to happen to TL since Plexa himself, and for similar reasons: they give respect before they expect to get it, and as a result they always know what they're talking about. Hats off to riptide, and may his tenure as PR author reach far into the future!
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i must say i thought this will be the most contreversial power rank ever
but you managed to hit the nail in the coffin.
great PR !!!
cant say like most others that i would like some people higher and some lower
but your explanations are logical and i cant disagree with none of your choices ,
great job and bravo for making the hardest pr in my memory to be the calmest in remarks
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On November 02 2009 03:22 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 03:02 Zato-1 wrote:
I appreciate the effort, but I liked JWD's PRs much better- I can't relate to this one at all. Each writer looks at PR a different way. JWD was probably the PR writer who focused more on results than any other PR writer (not that thats a bad thing, it's at his discretion). So if you think results speak volumes then yea, I can see why you'd like JWDs ranks more. If you think that the game quality and context have anything to do with it - then you'd probably enjoy etter's rankings and steves rankings a lot more. I think riptide has a balance between the two tbh!
That could be it. I'll be the first to admit I've only watched a fraction of the month's games, so of course I'm missing out on a lot of context... I'm just amazed at the huge dissonance between my (admittedly uninformed) opinion and riptide's PR. I have to give him props for some very polished writing skills, though! He should seriously consider asking a newspaper for some space for an opinion column. I'm saying this from personal experience- I write for a local paper weekly, and if he has interesting topics to write about, the way he delivers his ideas is easily worthy of the written press.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
lol what do you think riptide's day job is? (or was?)
No prizes for guessing 
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On November 02 2009 03:49 Plexa wrote:lol what do you think riptide's day job is? (or was?) No prizes for guessing
omg. You're telling me he has more written content that I don't know of? Links please :D
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PR really has no criteria and is mostly about whatever the writer wants.
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there's just no real reason for JD to be above Calm this month. This is one of the worst month's JD has ever had in his career, ESPECIALLY since all of his loses were ZvZ.
And TBH PRs are always changing their stance on "strongest player ATM" vs "strongest player of the month". Just look at that time Zero was the highest ranked Zerg on it.
Admittedly Calm did lose the ace match vs Roro, but it wasn't necassarily bad play and he was a big BO disadvantage (even though I'd say that's not an excuse for losing in ZvZ any more).
It's hard to ignore 9-2, especially when Flash at #1 (or even JD at #2) didnt really have any harder competition.
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On November 02 2009 04:09 Ideas wrote:
there's just no real reason for JD to be above Calm this month. This is one of the worst month's JD has ever had in his career, ESPECIALLY since all of his loses were ZvZ.
And TBH PRs are always changing their stance on "strongest player ATM" vs "strongest player of the month". Just look at that time Zero was the highest ranked Zerg on it.
Admittedly Calm did lose the ace match vs Roro, but it wasn't necassarily bad play and he was a big BO disadvantage (even though I'd say that's not an excuse for losing in ZvZ any more).
It's hard to ignore 9-2, especially when Flash at #1 (or even JD at #2) didnt really have any harder competition.
It seems really nuts to have some one with a 9-2 record below someone with a 3-3 record. I mean coooooooome on.
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On November 02 2009 02:55 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 02:44 JWD wrote:On November 02 2009 01:29 n.DieJokes wrote:On November 02 2009 01:13 JWD wrote:
I strongly object to JD at 2. Because he lost to Hyuk. When you say players who beat him this month, you really just mean Hyuk, and by soundly you mean won a 10 minute ZvZ JD also lost to ZerO…and every ZvZ is 10 minutes, I don't see your point there. JD and Hyuk opened with identical builds, and Hyuk simply outmicroed JD for the win. Also it's pretty lame to directly edit my quote like that :/ JD lost to ZerO (whom he then beat in an ace match, so I consider the loss meaningless). He lost to Hyuk due to losing an extra overlord (and never looking for Hyuk's in time), which isn't so much a micro mistake as decision-making or something. The loss to 815 is the only "bad" loss. We've seen nothing in leagues yet because he's seeded. He hasn't been playing ace matches because OZ is... building for the future. I really consider this month's results insufficient to say anything about Jaedong's real form, other than that it's not the level it was two-three months ago. That said I'd still put him at #4 or #5 myself rather than #2, but hey. Show nested quote +On November 02 2009 02:52 fanatacist wrote:
What I was trying to say was that JD vs. Fantasy I'd say is 60-40 in a Bo5, but everyone else (including you) makes it seem to me like you all think JD would curbstomp Fantasy 99 times out of a 100. I don't see how preparation for a BoX and having a different build for each map is that different from a 1 game set in SPL finals - the pressure is there, I guess the thing missing is some of that adaptation to the play of your opponent but if its different builds each time then what effect does it have? Psychological effects can remain but are arguable. Here, let me quote myself: "So yes, I do think Jaedong is still a favorite over fantasy. Maybe not by much (if you look at my post, my change to the PR would have JD 4, fantasy 6, which isn't a huge difference)... in series play I will still take Jaedong over fantasy every time. If you make it one game, fantasy's more liable to come out with a build and win..." Yes, I think Jaedong's better than fantasy in a BoX series. No, I wouldn't bet on JD in a single game. How is that saying "curbstomp 99 times out of 100"? I'm trying to be reasonable here, and you're basically accusing me of being a rabid JD fanboy. As for the difference between single sets and series: Jaedong is 2-0 in Bo5s against fantasy, set score 6-3. Jaedong is 1-3 against fantasy in Proleague games. The evidence - and the way gamers talk about it - suggests there's a significant difference in there somewhere.
Haha okay I know it came off that way but I was explaining my first response - I wasn't accusing you of those things. Your post was agreeable.
Like I said, psychological effects can remain - that is probably the determining factor in this case and I think that's very interesting. Although, we are of course overlooking maps and etc., but that's not really an argument I want to get into. Just GGs is all that matters (:
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EPT
