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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On November 08 2009 16:44 tree.hugger wrote: *sigh* Seriously? On another note... + Show Spoiler + *cough*  EffOrt *cough*Also, Shine lost to Kwanro, it is my great hope that we never seen Shine in the PR again. Yes, I personally think JWD's Power Ranks were weird and that he does not, infact, have a similar criteria to Riptide. | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On November 08 2009 13:24 Scaramanga wrote: Then why when flash droped like 4 games was he pushed OUT of the power rank, if it happened to flash it should happen to jaedong While in retrospect dropping him totally off the rank was wrong, but during those days of the summer Flash did nothing but disappoint every time the stakes got high. He dropped out of OSL in an uninspiring effort during the group stages, lost vs Kwanro in the MSL and dropped the ball in extremely important PL matches in the end of the season, including 2 losses vs STX. Not to mention the fact that he had not beaten a top tier P or Z in months during that time. (Or he did beat Effort in an meaningless match for him doing bbs) The only thing he seemed capable of was during that time was rolling noobs, which he did a lot of in GOM (While going through the tournament with 1 loss was impressive, he did not really play anyone good that entire tournament, beside Iris who in all honesty is not very good tho he was performing OK during those days. Not to mention that it was in Flash by far strongest matchup. Also several of his strongest opponents did not even participate in the tournament) Jaedong on the other hand have lost a few PL matches and nothing else. Arguments can be made that he should have been lower, but comparing him to Flash who dropped out of 2 Starleagues and failing at the most critical time of PL before getting dropped big time is just silly. Anyway enough of the Flash bashing by me for now. I just love that he is back in shape and on a rampage so hopefully we can see some BO5s between the 3 big dogs this Starleague season. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Last 20 games each matchup TvZ 17-3 TvT 17-3 TvP 12-8 | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
Flash's TvZ and TvT are still God Tier at any rate. Especially TvT, he's practically invincible in it. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On November 10 2009 05:52 Djabanete wrote: Flash is becoming FBH 2.0, you heard it here first! that would make him casy 3.0, would it not? | ||
Jonvvv
Norway1530 Posts
On November 10 2009 07:19 Mindcrime wrote: that would make him casy 3.0, would it not? boxer 4.0? hey, this is fun | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + okay that's a major stretch, I think we're done | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
- I'm glad that a sublimely terrible player like Justin was the one to expose Calm as overrated. - There's Luxury, and then there's  Violet as the only players who really gained from last night. We've seen what Lux has to offer, but Violet remains an intriguing prospect, months after he first burst onto the scene by beating Bisu. He's starting to look like a Sea-esque player, dominant in PL, but poor in starleagues. -  Flash, and fantasy tread water after last night. Flash redeemed himself in the ace match, although questions about his TvP linger. Fantasy polished off HoeJJa convincingly as he should have, and then proved that the "F" in "FvT" stands for Flash and not him. not a big deal, we already knew that. The battle between these two is shaping up again, as both seem to be in fine form. Fantasy owns the TvP, and Flash takes the TvT, which leaves both player's very different TvZ styles to determine the supremacy of the Terran race. Fascinating. - Bisu falls of course. He's looked very weak recently, it's impossible to ignore. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
fantasy's TvP might be better than Flash's, but is there really anything to base that on at the moment? Yeah, Flash majorly disappointed everyone against BeSt, but fantasy also recently lost to Stats, Shuttle, and Stork (x2), and only beat free[gm] and Much.I've been wondering for a while if maybe the top Protoss are just pulling entirely away from the top Terrans lately, and it's just not as apparent because they still choke against low-level Zergs. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4830 Posts
Hopefully Terran will start adding more units to TvP. Mass vulture/tank/turrets on 2-3 bases has been losing its luster. (And Protoss has gotten wise to vulture drops and wraith-first builds. The solution to the latter - don't open reavers - makes the matchup really dull.) Protoss are using (or threatening to use) every unit they have, with the exception of Corsair/Scout/DA, which don't apply because Terrans aren't using the units they counter. Vultures, tanks, and mines are all great units, but I have to wonder if there comes a point when EVEN MOAR OF THE SAME is actually effective. Instead of camping extra tanks at your army's edge, or clumping them so they all die to splash, maybe some M&M + Lockdown? (Or even bunkers, to tank hits.) You can have ~1.5 marines in place of a vulture, and when stimmed they each do as much damage even to dragoons and air... I really want to see double M&M drops. It's easy to leave behind a few cannons, or a few dragoons, to block vulture drops. But M&M will murder such a piddling defense, and they can destroy your nexus, or even hold you at your ramp when your army gets back. Goon/obs only counter M&M in an open field. Two dropships of M&M has similar damage output to a zeal/goon Recall, and costs... 1000/250 and 20 food. ~half the price, with far less tech overhead, and you can probably re-use the dropships. Current play doesn't allow Terran a good way to counter the Protoss for taking tons of bases and keeping his army in the field (a small number of cannons or dragoons will generally settle vulture harass) while the Protoss can threaten to recall as soon as the Terran's army stops standing in his bases. Not tactically convenient. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On November 10 2009 09:01 tree.hugger wrote: From last night: - I'm glad that a sublimely terrible player like Justin was the one to expose Calm as overrated.How, precisely, does a single loss to anyone short of Juni prove that a player is over-rated? For what it's worth, Justin is 2-0 on the Proleague year. Granted PianO's TvT is less than spectacular - still! Calm's in both leagues, and probably one of the favorites. I could make similar comments about "Oh lord Bisu lost to Luxury, overrated." At least (unlike Lux's ZvP) Justin's TvZ is his best MU. | ||
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On November 10 2009 22:07 Musoeun wrote: How, precisely, does a single loss to anyone short of Juni prove that a player is over-rated? For what it's worth, Justin is 2-0 on the Proleague year. Granted PianO's TvT is less than spectacular - still! Calm's in both leagues, and probably one of the favorites. I could make similar comments about "Oh lord Bisu lost to Luxury, overrated." At least (unlike Lux's ZvP) Justin's TvZ is his best MU. Oh, I'm biased. But I do think a little difference is that we know what Bisu is capable of, so we say that he's slumping. While I actually do like Calm, I found his MSL run to be absurdly uninspiring, and his proleague finals performance to be abysmal. But I feel as though I'm the only person on the planet who sees the truth. I just am never impressed by Calm's play. That said, Justin IS terrible. EDIT: And Calm might be the smartest player in BW. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4830 Posts
I'm mostly impressed by his willingness to play a normal game OR throw lurkers in your face, in ZvP or ZvT. Starcraft is much harder when you can't guarantee your opponent is doing the same standard build again. | ||
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On November 10 2009 03:04 StylishVODs wrote: Flash needs to shape up his TvP play! It's still good but compared to his other matchups right now it's clearly his weakest. Last 20 games each matchup TvZ 17-3 TvT 17-3 TvP 12-8 mhhhhmm.. god forbit a man goes 12-8 (60%) in a statistacally Protoss favored matchup | ||
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On November 10 2009 05:52 Djabanete wrote: Flash is becoming FBH 2.0, you heard it here first! not at all. Flash's TvP is RIDICULOUSLY better than FBH's.. -___- and dont even get me started with Casy's TvP | ||
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Cpadolf
Sweden1199 Posts
On November 11 2009 04:57 DreaM)XeRO wrote: mhhhhmm.. god forbit a man goes 12-8 (60%) in a statistacally Protoss favored matchup That it is a good record doesn't change the fact that it is his worst matchup, and that he might very well need to improve it in order to win any single leagues. | ||
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On November 11 2009 04:57 DreaM)XeRO wrote: mhhhhmm.. god forbit a man goes 12-8 (60%) in a statistacally Protoss favored matchup Your point? Everything Stylish said was totally legitimate, and you didn't address a single thing he said. Flash's TvP IS his weakest match-up although it's still quite good compared with the norm. But there are plenty of players like BeSt who he's likely to meet in the upper reaches of starleague play, and he needs to beat them to be considered on top. I don't think we've seen enough to be truely worried right now, I think Bisu's PvZ and JD's ZvZ are worrisome enough. But certainly a flaw that we're going to need to keep an eye on. | ||
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