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On July 24 2009 14:14 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 12:29 sArite_nite wrote:
I hurt.
For all the gamers in that country. I hurt. Ironic then that China has what is probably the most active Starcraft scene outside of Korea, and the most active WCIII scene, in addition to very active scenes in other games such as CS. What people who aren't living/haven't lived in China usually don't understand is that these days, what the government does is almost completely separate from the concerns of the everyday Chinese. The government knows better than to actually interfere with the everyday life of people in China - THAT would get people very pissed off. The general view of the Chinese people is that the government can say whatever they want, and as long as it's not affecting everyday life, it's all good. You can see it as a very odd state with almost two separate entities each doing their own thing in China - the government and the people, and as long as one doesn't cross into the territory of the other, everything stays "harmonious." At least, that's the vibe I'm getting in China. @ Emlary: RMB 80000 per month as middle class? Are you sure you didn't stick an extra 0 on that? Even then, 8000 RMB per month is a tad on the high side. I'd say 4000-5000 would be the average for middle class. Maybe 6000-8000 in bigger cities like Beijing.
And so this will be all fine and dandy until blizzard decides to cut and run and Chinese people never get to play Starcraft 2 in their own country because the government makes retarded, unscientific decisions about what the citizens can and cannot do? And then what? You'll whine a little? Nothing will change if the attitude you represent persists.
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On July 25 2009 05:53 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 14:14 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 24 2009 12:29 sArite_nite wrote:
I hurt.
For all the gamers in that country. I hurt. Ironic then that China has what is probably the most active Starcraft scene outside of Korea, and the most active WCIII scene, in addition to very active scenes in other games such as CS. What people who aren't living/haven't lived in China usually don't understand is that these days, what the government does is almost completely separate from the concerns of the everyday Chinese. The government knows better than to actually interfere with the everyday life of people in China - THAT would get people very pissed off. The general view of the Chinese people is that the government can say whatever they want, and as long as it's not affecting everyday life, it's all good. You can see it as a very odd state with almost two separate entities each doing their own thing in China - the government and the people, and as long as one doesn't cross into the territory of the other, everything stays "harmonious." At least, that's the vibe I'm getting in China. @ Emlary: RMB 80000 per month as middle class? Are you sure you didn't stick an extra 0 on that? Even then, 8000 RMB per month is a tad on the high side. I'd say 4000-5000 would be the average for middle class. Maybe 6000-8000 in bigger cities like Beijing. And so this will be all fine and dandy until blizzard decides to cut and run and Chinese people never get to play Starcraft 2 in their own country because the government makes retarded, unscientific decisions about what the citizens can and cannot do? And then what? You'll whine a little? Nothing will change if the attitude you represent persists.
This sounds utterly unrealistic to me. LAN or no LAN, I find it highly unlikely that no one will manage to crack SC2. Regardless of Blizzard's presence or abscence from China, SC2 will be played there, and mostly on pirate servers. The only way SC2 won't make it into China is if Blizzard pulls another Starcraft: Ghost and pulls the plug on SC2.
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That's great - but I doubt people with pirated versions of the game will ever get to play in the sanctioned tournaments. I'm confidant SC2 tournaments will be completely run by blizzard, on battle.net, and if the only thing Chinese gamers can play are pirated versions they'll never get to participate in those tournaments.
It's just a bummer for them, I don't understand why the Chinese people in this thread seem to think there's no problem with China banning Starcraft 2 from their country.
But honestly, in retrospect, I take back my sympathy for those gamers if they don't even want to do anything to fix it themselves.
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Anything can be cracked, Zato is right I think.
The usual complaint you hear in these cases is not that Blizzard will cut & run now, but that it will hurt future product development. If everyone pirates SC2, there will surely be no Blizzard tech support, official patches, not to mention no possibility for SC3 some day. Its the same thing you hear from the movie industry, record labels (but since music takes less of an upfront investment to create the effect should be less severe, with the possible exception of fancy video-clips), pharma companies on existing drugs vs. future R&D, etc. etc.
+ Show Spoiler + People ignore this in the health care debate all the time when debating the benefits of patents vs. store brand drugs. Example: "If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half-price for the thing that's going to make you well?" — Obama at July 22 press conference. Remind you of anyone? + Show Spoiler +"You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." - Morpheus in The Matrix
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On July 25 2009 07:14 citi.zen wrote:Anything can be cracked, Zato is right I think. The usual complaint you hear in these cases is not that Blizzard will cut & run now, but that it will hurt future product development. If everyone pirates SC2, there will surely be no Blizzard tech support, official patches, not to mention no possibility for SC3 some day. Its the same thing you hear from the movie industry, record labels (but since music takes less of an upfront investment to create the effect should be less severe, with the possible exception of fancy video-clips), pharma companies on existing drugs vs. future R&D, etc. etc. + Show Spoiler + People ignore this in the health care debate all the time when debating the benefits of patents vs. store brand drugs. Example: "If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half-price for the thing that's going to make you well?" — Obama at July 22 press conference. Remind you of anyone? + Show Spoiler +"You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." - Morpheus in The Matrix
If your spoiler derails this thread... i swear to god...
And I agree with the post above yours. Blizzard is making an e-sport (or hoping too). They are now the keeper of the keys. If you don't play on a Blizzard licensed tournament then you are not part of the sport. Its simple, if you ever ever ever want to get ANY recognition (unlicensed tornies will just get shut down n asses sued) or have ANY ambitions of turning pro, then you better damn well buy the game.
I see it as a fairly good move by Blizzard. They're 'making a community': if you choose not to be a part of that community then you can kiss your 'pro' ass goodbye!
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TBH, I think the piracy argument is overblown. Piracy isn't nearly as big of a problem as some would like you to think. Sure, the RIAA will tell you it's the spawn of the devil- but honestly, at least half the problem is their outdated business model. With many people, the problem is not that the music is too expensive- it's that getting it legally is too inconvenient. Why do you have to drive over to a record store and buy a CD disk when all you want is a single music track? The iTunes music store's smashing success is a testament to this argument.
But hey, what do I know, right? Don't take it from me- take it from the pros. The legitimate portion of PC gaming was dying before Steam- all that needed to be done was to distribute your product as conveniently (or more conveniently) as pirates do it.
Maybe my argument isn't as valid in China. But at least in countries where consumers can afford your game, mass piracy is symptomatic of an awful distribution process more than anything else.
I don't really know enough about the pharmaceutical business to give an educated opinion on it.
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On July 25 2009 08:53 Tyraz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2009 07:14 citi.zen wrote:Anything can be cracked, Zato is right I think. The usual complaint you hear in these cases is not that Blizzard will cut & run now, but that it will hurt future product development. If everyone pirates SC2, there will surely be no Blizzard tech support, official patches, not to mention no possibility for SC3 some day. Its the same thing you hear from the movie industry, record labels (but since music takes less of an upfront investment to create the effect should be less severe, with the possible exception of fancy video-clips), pharma companies on existing drugs vs. future R&D, etc. etc. + Show Spoiler + People ignore this in the health care debate all the time when debating the benefits of patents vs. store brand drugs. Example: "If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half-price for the thing that's going to make you well?" — Obama at July 22 press conference. Remind you of anyone? + Show Spoiler +"You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." - Morpheus in The Matrix Its simple, if you ever ever ever want to get ANY recognition (unlicensed tornies will just get shut down n asses sued) or have ANY ambitions of turning pro, then you better damn well buy the game.
Uh... good luck suing unlicensed tournaments organized and held in China.
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lol, it seems like you, with no understand of the culture there, think that not having privileges to the pro-gaming community is somehow detrimental and contributes to a domestic disturbance of some sort? the game itself is entertainment, and as entertainment goes, people don't really care if they play sc2, or sc2 crack, or sc 2.3 chinese version made by lao da bao.
the government's "crackdown" on sc2 and wc3 is simply what the government has done b4 for the last w/e years, with many website. This is just the extention of that action. its just it is coming to view now in light of sc2 and people are outraged at this when there really isn't anything to be outraged about. anyone who knows china and chinese culture and how things are run there isn't surprised at all and really isn't angered by this either.
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On July 24 2009 23:15 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 15:49 haduken wrote:
The arrest of Hu was China's way of asserting control over a critical industry sector that was left unregulated for too long. The government already has control over national companies. This is about hard-ball negotiations with a foreign entity, not "regulation". By the way, China is hardly alone in taking a heavy-handed approach to industrial policy & foreign companies. As I mentioned earlier, Australia had no place blocking the Chinese from investing their money how they saw fit. In the US this happened in the 1980's with Japanese investors a lot, and more recently with the Chinese/Arab investors ( example). European countries are notorious for "protecting" national companies as well. Show nested quote + Iron ore prices pretty much dictate the price of everything else so I wasn't surprised that Chinese government decided to act. Hu might not be "spying" but he definately pissed off some people and given the fact that the dude was/is Chinese with an Australian passport, he should've known better.
Him "pissing off" people has less to do with it than the broader context & decision to intimidate. At any rate, this is where China differs from other countries: Australia did not jail Chinese people on made-up charges when they were trying to buy Rio Tinto. The US did not arrest the representatives of Dubai Ports either. There is a human rights issue here, ( as opposed to the consumer/investor rights), which is approached rather differently in China.
Chinalco accepted the 33% reduction a few days after the arrest. If this was an intimadation tactic, it sure made a lot of sense -_-.
Rio had a previous CEO fired for not backing the deal with China. So you failed to convince me that the Australians were engaging in protectionism (Even if they were, it was the correct thing to do).
As I mentioned earlier, Australia had no place blocking the Chinese from investing their money how they saw fit.
Excuse me? I didn't see China letting Aussies or ANY other nations invest in their telecommunication, mining, Nuclear etc etc etc. Be fair my friend, be fair.
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On July 25 2009 10:13 Creationism wrote:
the government's "crackdown" on sc2 and wc3 is simply what the government has done b4 for the last w/e years, with many website. This is just the extention of that action. its just it is coming to view now in light of sc2 and people are outraged at this when there really isn't anything to be outraged about. anyone who knows china and chinese culture and how things are run there isn't surprised at all and really isn't angered by this either.
So could you please explain why this doesn't anger you (in respect of chinese culture)? I mean "it's the way it is" is hardly a reason. Because either you are not pissed because you don't care if the government makes poor decisions or you don't think it's actually a bad decision.
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You brought up Ghost. Now I'm sad 
Interesting read though
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On July 25 2009 15:36 silynxer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2009 10:13 Creationism wrote:
the government's "crackdown" on sc2 and wc3 is simply what the government has done b4 for the last w/e years, with many website. This is just the extention of that action. its just it is coming to view now in light of sc2 and people are outraged at this when there really isn't anything to be outraged about. anyone who knows china and chinese culture and how things are run there isn't surprised at all and really isn't angered by this either.
So could you please explain why this doesn't anger you (in respect of chinese culture)? I mean "it's the way it is" is hardly a reason. Because either you are not pissed because you don't care if the government makes poor decisions or you don't think it's actually a bad decision.
Don't read too much into it. If your government has always pulled stunts like this one to the point where you're not surprised when another one happens, you're unlikely to grow indignant when they're dicking around with yet another company. It's always been that way in China- people there may not be familiar with any other way of going about things.
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DON'T WORRY PEOPLE.
Chinese SC fans have already found the solution.
There is always the TAIWAN version to play with!
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Great read and very enlightening. I did not know all those sights were blocked in China :o how ignorant of me. We really have it well here in the 'western world'
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EPT
