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Starcraft II: Censorship, Communism, China
July 23rd, 2009 15:17 GMT
Before you start reading this blog, be aware that Blogspot, Facebook, Picasa, Twitter and YouTube are all blocked in China. Other irregularly blocked sites include Flickr, Google, Wikipedia and yes, once Battle.Net was inaccessible. Generally speaking, any Web2.0 or user-generated content website, any place where people talk what they want, can be blocked by the Great Fire Wall.
It's ChinaJoy opening day today, the equivalent of E3 in China. Big companies, new titles and booth babies, even Fomos loves it. Instead of displaying console games, ChinaJoy is mainly for online games because we have nothing but online games. Most old developers of PC games died one by one since late 1990s due to piracy. Few are left, switching into online games. As for console games, oh, let me tell you something: I have an Xbox360 that is only available in the grey market and a shit load of pirated game discs, each costs less than $1.
Anyone who wants to make money from the gaming business in China, it must be a damn online game.
Blizzard has had three partners in China. The first one is Aomei Soft, who published StarCraft, Diablo II and Warcraft III for Blizzard. Aomei Soft was once the gaming unit of Charoen Pokphand Group (the biggest conglomerate in Thailand), later acquired by a Chinese telecommunication enterprise. Aomei sued Holdfast (Haofang, I think many of you got to know this Chinese version of Garena thanks to Possible reason Blizzard dropped LAN support thread) for providing illegal LAN based platform of Blizzard games in 2006 and asked for million of dollars compensation. Shamefully, they lost the case because the court said they did not have hard evidence.
Why is Holdfast that arrogant? The biggest shareholder of Holdfast is also the biggest game company in China – Shanda. Shanda monetized Holdfast after acquiring it in 2004, adding paid features and subscriptions. With less than $2 subscription per month, you can join any channel even it’s full, you can kick out some noob you don't like. Other paid features include 50% exp. point bonus if you win or no exp. point cut if you lose. (Think about if iCCup provides something similar….) It's not compulsory but lots of players are willing to pay since it's "small money“. (It is also the reason why micro-transaction based Free-to-Play MMOs are so popular in China.) Chinese Starcraft/Warcraft gamers pay no penny to Blizzard but pay some money to Holdfast, which obviously makes Blizzard crazy.
Platforms like Holdfast can be a possible reason Blizzard dropped LAN for Starcraft II. Business is business. The new Battlet.Net will absolutely have paid feature/subscription, I'm not saying the global one, I'm talking about the upcoming isolated Chinese Battle.Net. See, even Battle.Net can be communistic. With LAN or without LAN, Starcraft II won't be a million-copy-seller game in China. It's hardcore, it's for people of my age (played Starcraft many years ago, now have a job, can afford a legal copy). "Why not just stop those Holdfast guys stealing our money?" Simple logic of Blizzard.
The second partner was The9, the former local operator of WoW in mainland China. With an idiot boss who generated money from WoW then bought a soccer team for fun (Chinese soccer team FAIL). He's even more stupid to have a good friend at EA to get EA's investment and FIFA Online in 2007. Blizzard kicked it out early this year and turned to NetEase.
The third partner NetEase already signed Starcraft II and the new Battle.Net last year. Blizzard chose it because 1) NetEase is willing to pay more royalty 2) NetEase's boss is a member of the national congress. Government relation is important for business everywhere, but especially important in China. If the government don't like you, they can find the most absurd reason you can imagine to kick you out. Last year when Blizzard tried to register Starcraft: Ghost at the Chinese patent bureau. It was rejected because "Starcraft indicates astrology and Ghost is definitely evil." Yeah, we are communists we are 100% materialistic don't try to infect us with your capitalistic evil things.
There is no rating system for any entertainment industry in China. Movies? Video games? No. There are only two types: green/harmony and dirty/disharmony. You talked about Tian'anmen Square riot, you are disharmony; you want democracy, you are disharmony; you watch porn, you are disharmony; you play violent video games, you are disharmony. So don't be surprised that skeletons were put on flesh in Chinese version of WoW. Ridiculous things happen every day here. Some are not too bad, just hilarious; some make people enraged.
What's worse is two national bureaus have been fighting for the administration right of video games, General Administration of Publication and Press and Ministry of Culture. Both claimed they are authorized to censor video games before the publication/open beta testing. (By censorship, here it means 2 or 3 grandpas from the bureau who had probably never played any video game in their entire lives, access the game server with GM accounts, to see if there are naked women or bloody bodies.) Once Ministry of Culture agreed to support GDC China (by Think Group), GAPP immediately turned to support another industry panel called China GDC. Games and game companies are obviously the victims of their fight. Sadly, Blizzard and NetEase probably didn't offer enough bribe to the governors from both bureaus.
Blizzard sure have lots of talents who can make some best video games. But they don't have talents to deal with communists. Don't forget – North Koreans, they are our brothers. The future of WoW, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 and whatever new titles in China, is doomed. I promise you this won't be the last ridiculous story you hear from China/Blizzard/Starcraft/WoW. There is gonna be many, many to come.
PS, some personal comment:
From the business perspective, China market is not essential to Blizzard. What? Five million Chinese World of Warcraft players, who are almost half of total subscribers, are not important? Do some simple math, WoW contributed 39% of Activision Blizzard total revenues according its Q1 fiscal results. If we take a look at the geographic breakdown, Asia Pacific contributed only 7% of total revenues (Asia revenues = WoW revenues). Let's say Korean and Taiwanese (two major independent servers in Asia other than Chinese) count 2%, China is the rest 5%. That comes to a conclusion – half of WoW subscribers only contributed 12.8% of WoW revenues. Michael Morhaime can just say "f*** you" to China government, and leave.
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Thank you for the insight about WoW specifically. A friend and I were talking about this so I'm glad you made a post about it.
Hopefully Starcraft 2 isnt delayed too long because of China... especially since Blizzard is an AMERICAN company.
Edit: Re-reading it, stuff like that always makes me wonder how China hasn't erupted yet. I know they have a vice-grip like control of their people, but man some of those laws are just ridiculous. I dont know all that much about Chinese culture to be honest, but hopefully something changes one of these days that keeps that amount of censorship out of peoples lives.
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
Communism lives. 
China is doing very well overall, economy and other stuff, but from what i read it sure sucks to be a gamer or internet dweller there.
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Really interesting read. 5/5.
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China's like the big brother of the Philippines, just stricter and better economically.
But, can I ask? if the government is corrupt.. why is it that you're country is still economically awesome? It's very contradicting.
EDIT: so it's true that starcraft is too bloody that it will affect the minds of adolescents.
LMAO!
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Great read especially since I came straight from the Starcraft 2 banned from Chinajoy thread.... There's a lot of negativity towards China on this thread but I don't think are that bad. It's just the whole censorship issue.
There is no rating system for any entertainment industry in China. Movies? Video games? No. There are only two types: green/harmony and dirty/disharmony. You talked about Tian'anmen Square riot, you are disharmony; you want democracy, you are disharmony; you watch porn, you are disharmony; you play violent video games, you are disharmony. So don't be surprised that skeletons were put on flesh in Chinese version of WoW. Ridiculous things happen every day here. Some are not too bad, just hilarious; some make people enraged.
I didn't know that though. And I thought that singapore was bad...
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Reminds me of those five hundred in one cartridge nintendo games they had over there. Of course about a hundred of them are Super Mario Bros. I seriously have no idea how China keeps their competitive gaming scene.
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wow, that sucks for blizzard
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On July 24 2009 00:48 s.a.y wrote:
wow, that sucks for blizzard
More sucks for the people. Blizzard has plenty of money to just about anything they want, they just want to force everyone to pay an equal price even if their country isnt really a place that allows for that.
Thats what I'm getting from a lot of the articles I'm ready anyway. Some countries are going to hack the game no matter how hard anyone tries to stop it. And if they cant hack it they'll just make a straight up ripoff, there was a post about that recently in these forums as well.
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Really nice read, shed some light on the matter.
I so hate comunism.
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United States12607 Posts
On July 24 2009 00:17 Emlary wrote:
Last year when Blizzard tried to register Starcraft: Ghost at the Chinese patent bureau. It was rejected because "Starcraft indicates astrology and Ghost is definitely evil." Yeah, we are communists we are 100% materialistic don't try to infect us with your capitalistic evil things.
There is no rating system for any entertainment industry in China. Movies? Video games? No. There are only two types: green/harmony and dirty/disharmony. You talked about Tian'anmen Square riot, you are disharmony; you want democracy, you are disharmony; you watch porn, you are disharmony; you play violent video games, you are disharmony. So don't be surprised that skeletons were put on flesh in Chinese version of WoW.
This kind of stuff sets me on tilt. For all its economic progress, China still has a long way to go before it's as free as any Western democracy.
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man when this comes out im going to be turned into a crazzed killer because of sc2
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they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR STARCRAFT
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so this means I should buy Shanda stock right?
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China3334 Posts
On July 24 2009 01:02 azndsh wrote:
so this means I should buy Shanda stock right?
Not really, its stock price jumped from $30 to $60 last three months, mainly driven by the Aion-hype. With 20+ P/E, it's probably the most expensive gaming stock at present.
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Well, call me optimistic but I think things will get progressively better in China. Today's China have come a long way since Mao's regime were millions of teachers and other intellectuals were killed. While the countryside in China is very poor, the middle class in the cities is rapidly growing, and when people's economical situation improves they are going to start asking for more freedom.
The communist party will have to start making compromises, or risking setting China back 50 years. No one wants Mao back, not even the communist party.
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Wow this is such an interesting read, greetings 
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Holy shit, didn't know all of this about it. Thank you for opening up to us more about the situation.
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Baa?21243 Posts
I don't see how communism fits into any of this.
Whenever news like this about China pops up, you get a million people saying "god I hate communism," when it's obvious they have no real grasp on what communism is and how it fits in to this. (protip, it really doesn't)
China has strayed so far from communism without going into a system like the western world that it really is its own unique system. It's not democratic, anyone can tell you that, but it is also nothing like communism as outlined by Marx, nor like the state of the USSR.
So communism isn't causing the censorship of SCII in China, it's the really weird and mostly retarded system that China has of dealing with foreign stuff that is.
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Great blog. Never thought censorship was this heavy. Very insightful. 5/5
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great read, I knew that they were strict over there but god... i didn't think it was that bad
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how are other foreign companies (in particular Korean MMO makers) dealing with the Chinese government and handling things? do they have the same problems, or are the regulators friendlier to them to begin with?
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This is a great read, and it really has to suck being a online gamer in China. Hopefully things get better there.
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China3334 Posts
On July 24 2009 01:16 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
So communism isn't causing the censorship of SCII in China, it's the really weird and mostly retarded system that China has of dealing with foreign stuff that is.
Just don't bother finding another "C" word lol
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
I can't help but look at China positively overall.
What they do hurts only free time of youth and teenagers. Their freedoms regarding gaming, internet browsing, getting entertainments from western cultures are weak. But young time better spent other way imo (even if you live in s.korea), better spent being socially active. I sure don't see their politics direction as a tragedy. The society may benefit overall producing it's own entertainment and staying inside it's own culture.
China is becoming a monster with economy, science, sports. Very fast. Limited entertainment freedoms among teens is worthy enough price if it actually adds to the growth.
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Very interesting read...and wow very educational, thank you!
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On July 24 2009 01:41 Magic84 wrote:
I can't help but look at China positively overall.
What they do hurts only free time of youth and teenagers. Their freedoms regarding gaming, internet browsing, getting entertainments from western cultures are weak. But young time better spent other way imo (even if you live in s.korea), better spent being socially active. I sure don't see their politics direction as a tragedy. The society may benefit overall producing it's own entertainment and staying inside it's own culture.
China is becoming a monster with economy, science, sports. Very fast. Limited entertainment freedoms among teens is worthy enough price if it actually adds to the growth.
What do you think will happen when well educated young people are being repressed? They will just leave the country for a better life elsewhere where they can have more freedom.
China need to change if they want to be leading the world, they won't be able to do that as a dictatorship.
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7% revenue is nothing to sneeze at..
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On July 24 2009 01:41 Magic84 wrote:
I can't help but look at China positively overall.
What they do hurts only free time of youth and teenagers. Their freedoms regarding gaming, internet browsing, getting entertainments from western cultures are weak. But young time better spent other way imo (even if you live in s.korea), better spent being socially active. I sure don't see their politics direction as a tragedy. The society may benefit overall producing it's own entertainment and staying inside it's own culture.
China is becoming a monster with economy, science, sports. Very fast. Limited entertainment freedoms among teens is worthy enough price if it actually adds to the growth.
This doesn't make sense. An ambitious person will be ambitious regardless of whether video games exist or not. If a person succumbs to distractions, then that it their own fault, and not the responsibility of the government to stop. The existence of distractions rarely stop a strong-willed person from being successful.
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I don't see why you are allowed to associate hate with communism because China has a bad and corrupt way of dealing with video games. In fact most of Chinese citizens might even agree with this system if they see video games as a bad thing more than good. Surely just enough as blocking porn can be no different than blocking the use of cocaine in my opinion, and they might place gaming in the same category.
America has a terrible healthcare system, terrible social security system, terrible many other things, and somewhat of sensorship on people under 17 in buying many games (which I'm sure all the u-17s are crying about) but it would be outragous to blame it on the democracy?
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
On July 24 2009 01:53 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 01:41 Magic84 wrote:
I can't help but look at China positively overall.
What they do hurts only free time of youth and teenagers. Their freedoms regarding gaming, internet browsing, getting entertainments from western cultures are weak. But young time better spent other way imo (even if you live in s.korea), better spent being socially active. I sure don't see their politics direction as a tragedy. The society may benefit overall producing it's own entertainment and staying inside it's own culture.
China is becoming a monster with economy, science, sports. Very fast. Limited entertainment freedoms among teens is worthy enough price if it actually adds to the growth. What do you think will happen when well educated young people are being repressed? They will just leave the country for a better life elsewhere where they can have more freedom. China need to change if they want to be leading the world, they won't be able to do that as a dictatorship.
I don't think so. I don't think full grown adults need 4chan, uncensored google and other stuff THIS much. I'd like to see the people's happiness statistic and where does China stands though, but it's hard to manage >1.3 billion people (goddamn!) overall.
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On July 24 2009 02:03 Magic84 wrote:I don't think so. I don't think full grown adults need 4chan, uncensored google and other stuff THIS much. I'd like to see the people's happiness statistic and where does China stands though, but it's hard to manage >1.3 billion people (goddamn!) overall.
Well of course we don't NEED those things, but it still doesn't make it right to ban them just because some people are irresponsible with them.
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On July 24 2009 00:58 Zurles wrote:
they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR STARCRAFT
unless we live in china.
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What a genuinely insightful read. Thanks Emlary~
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On July 24 2009 01:57 Pape wrote:
I don't see why you are allowed to associate hate with communism because China has a bad and corrupt way of dealing with video games. In fact most of Chinese citizens might even agree with this system if they see video games as a bad thing more than good. Surely just enough as blocking porn can be no different than blocking the use of cocaine in my opinion, and they might place gaming in the same category.
America has a terrible healthcare system, terrible social security system, terrible many other things, and somewhat of sensorship on people under 17 in buying many games (which I'm sure all the u-17s are crying about) but it would be outragous to blame it on the democracy?
Eh it's not that hard to get around, have a friend who's old enough for parents who are lenient buy it for you if you're under 17. (This is assuming the store even checks ages, I never ONCE had a store age check me and I was buying games I technically shouldn't have been, diablo 2 anyone? I bought that in 8th grade hell I was what, 15 I think?)
Also, buy it online if possible, when I was 16 I had a debit card for my bank account that I could use to buy anything online if I wanted with them basically having no way to know if I was actually of age or not.
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On July 24 2009 00:37 Licmyobelisk wrote:
China's like the big brother of the Philippines, just stricter and better economically.
But, can I ask? if the government is corrupt.. why is it that you're country is still economically awesome? It's very contradicting.
LMAO!
It's certainly not economically awesome. In fact its far more likely that economic reasons will be the cause of a blow-up in China rather than social woes (read: gov't censorship). GDP per capita (granted only a limited measure of financial well-being) is lower than any first world country's and a socioeconomic divide far greater than America's. Growth is easy in a command economy. Look at Stalinist Russia
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Ya thanks Emlary this was a very good read.
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The issue is not so much communism as totalitarianism. These stories about the gaming industry are sad but tiny compared to other examples. Take the Rio Tinto scandal now: China jailed executives of a huge global company on made-up accusations of "spying". [story ]
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On July 24 2009 01:41 Magic84 wrote:
I can't help but look at China positively overall.
What they do hurts only free time of youth and teenagers. Their freedoms regarding gaming, internet browsing, getting entertainments from western cultures are weak. But young time better spent other way imo (even if you live in s.korea), better spent being socially active. I sure don't see their politics direction as a tragedy. The society may benefit overall producing it's own entertainment and staying inside it's own culture.
China is becoming a monster with economy, science, sports. Very fast. Limited entertainment freedoms among teens is worthy enough price if it actually adds to the growth.
Agree with this guy, in fact, any time spent during leisure activities is stupid and only detrimental to scholarly pursuits.
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On July 24 2009 01:16 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I don't see how communism fits into any of this.
Whenever news like this about China pops up, you get a million people saying "god I hate communism," when it's obvious they have no real grasp on what communism is and how it fits in to this. (protip, it really doesn't)
China has strayed so far from communism without going into a system like the western world that it really is its own unique system. It's not democratic, anyone can tell you that, but it is also nothing like communism as outlined by Marx, nor like the state of the USSR.
So communism isn't causing the censorship of SCII in China, it's the really weird and mostly retarded system that China has of dealing with foreign stuff that is.
this man speaks the truth.
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Meh. In the end, it doesn't really matter because almost no Chinese will ever bother with a legit copy. Most don't have the money(normal middle-class salaryman makes around $150 a month). And the few rich kids will have parents making them study 24/7 before college anyway. While there are plenty of Chinese people have money, most of the people who buy videogames DO NOT. You can sell genuine, fully loaded hummers and Lincolns in China, but it's laughable to think any American video game will sell well outside of HK, Taiwan, and maybe select cities in the south.
Btw, using # of subscriptions for WoW is misleading, because Chinese users don't pay the ridiculous monthly fee of Americans. They go by hours. I checked a website that says 30RMB, or ~4 dollars, per 66 hours, which seems about right. The prices are vastly different because, once again, the average Chinese gamer just can't afford the regular monthly subscription.
Basically, Blizzard shouldn't worry too much about the market until video game players start making decent money.
Edit: I wish people would stop detract the thread with Communism bashing. It's not relevant. And most people here don't know enough about the topic to comment on it. I would point out all the inaccuracies, but it would further detract the thread.
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On July 24 2009 02:32 lwstupidus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 01:41 Magic84 wrote:
I can't help but look at China positively overall.
What they do hurts only free time of youth and teenagers. Their freedoms regarding gaming, internet browsing, getting entertainments from western cultures are weak. But young time better spent other way imo (even if you live in s.korea), better spent being socially active. I sure don't see their politics direction as a tragedy. The society may benefit overall producing it's own entertainment and staying inside it's own culture.
China is becoming a monster with economy, science, sports. Very fast. Limited entertainment freedoms among teens is worthy enough price if it actually adds to the growth. Agree with this guy, in fact, any time spent during leisure activities is stupid and only detrimental to scholarly pursuits.
Why are you on this forum then?
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On July 24 2009 02:42 baubo wrote:
Btw, using # of subscriptions for WoW is misleading, because Chinese users don't pay the ridiculous monthly fee of Americans. They go by hours. I checked a website that says 30RMB, or ~4 dollars, per 66 hours, which seems about right. The prices are vastly different because, once again, the average Chinese gamer just can't afford the regular monthly subscription.
This point was addressed in this thread--even though something like 33% of WOW subscriptions are Chinese, only 7% of WOW revenue comes from China
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TY. Very good read and insightful.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Man.
All of you in this thread (AND the other thread) who are singing China's praises...
If you weren't being paid by the Chinese government, would you REALLY prefer living under the Chinese system rather than the American system?
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I expect all Chinese will rush to Korean/Taiwanese (even American/European) SC2 server when SC2 is released =/
GL/HF
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Government relation is important for business everywhere, but especially important in China. If the government don't like you, they can find the most absurd reason you can imagine to kick you out.
That is so true.
The problem with having a nation that's 1.3 billion is that since there are so many people to control:
1) you cannot construct enough pylons, spawn enough overlords, and there won't be space for supply depots.
2) The bureaucracy is too bulky and inefficient, allowing corruption to run rampant. Almost everyone in China who is in the middle or upper class can find a friend of a friend of a friend who works in one of the Ministries or local government offices. This leads to what is now known as "grey income", shady business that is NOT looked down upon because it happens so frequently.
If u are a company seeking a slice of the market in china, chances are, you'd have to bribe your way in, or know a lot of upper gov't officials (i.e. get their kids a high position in ur company or send them to Harvard). the problem Blizzard faces is piracy and enforcement of copyright laws.
There are laws, but the gov't just CAN'T follow through with it. too many people are using pirated software, and the best hackers either get locked down by the gov't or they get hired (to hack other nations, like S.Korea). and usuallly it's the latter cuz the gov't pays well.
I mean, i was walking in a market in Shanghai, and I saw windows XP selling for just under $1. cracked, product key included. that's where i get all my dvd's, u don't go to the theatres to watch movies, you go to the streets and buy them off a dude with a box of them. that goes under what is known as "grey income".
same goes for trying to SELL starcraftII in china, sooner or later, someone's gonna crack it, and soon everyone in china who wants SCII gets SCII.
i just finished talking about the people of china, as for the government, imagine this:
a schizophrenic old grandpa who controls everything, blind to everyone else's opinions.
now imagine trying to convince him to let u into his house.
if blizzard doesn't adapt to the small-transaction free MMO market, some other company will go ahead and take SCII and make people pay to, say, play in leagues, or host games.
And if that company happens to have been started in China, the chinese government will side with that company every time blizzard files a lawsuit.
don't try to change china, just play with it and enjoy the $8 trillion, 11.9% GDP
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On July 24 2009 02:44 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 02:42 baubo wrote:
Btw, using # of subscriptions for WoW is misleading, because Chinese users don't pay the ridiculous monthly fee of Americans. They go by hours. I checked a website that says 30RMB, or ~4 dollars, per 66 hours, which seems about right. The prices are vastly different because, once again, the average Chinese gamer just can't afford the regular monthly subscription. This point was addressed in this thread--even though something like 33% of WOW subscriptions are Chinese, only 7% of WOW revenue comes from China
You might want to reread that portion again. Because that's not the numbers I read. The OP assumes China accounts for 5%, with HK, Taiwan, and other Asian countries making up 2% of revenue. I was only questioning this assumption, because I feel it's way too high given my understanding of the economic situation in China.
Of course, if the numbers prove correct, I'd gladly take back my statement, since I'd feel that 5% of the total WoW market is relevant. And that given the extreme popularity of DoTA in China, it's not unthinkable that SC2 could make some dough here.
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the only effective way to do business in china is to know politicians and do business the chinese way: give gifts and cash. a lot of the policies are reactionary, because the politicians feel that there's an opportunity to be made, especially with Blizzard being one of the largest, most profitable game companies in the world. they're not stupid.
also regarding world of warcraft, Blizzard's service in China is two years behind. they are still on the Burning Crusade expansion. They are able to charge very little for WoW, because they are selling an old game in China.
If Blizzard can not deal with the Chinese market, they either need to get out or adjust their product to meet Chinese regulations. This adjustment comes with making their product cheaper and less up to date than what the rest of the world gets.
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China3334 Posts
On July 24 2009 02:42 baubo wrote:
normal middle-class salaryman makes around $150 a month.
$150 = RMB1000
Are you kidding me? Middle-class salaryman makes RMB1000 a month? To be a middle-class, you have to at least make RMB80,000 a month (around one million RMB = $140,000 a year) in my opinion.
First year college graduates make $200 to $1,000 per month in China, depending on what kind of job they take.
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On July 24 2009 02:32 lwstupidus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 01:41 Magic84 wrote:
I can't help but look at China positively overall.
What they do hurts only free time of youth and teenagers. Their freedoms regarding gaming, internet browsing, getting entertainments from western cultures are weak. But young time better spent other way imo (even if you live in s.korea), better spent being socially active. I sure don't see their politics direction as a tragedy. The society may benefit overall producing it's own entertainment and staying inside it's own culture.
China is becoming a monster with economy, science, sports. Very fast. Limited entertainment freedoms among teens is worthy enough price if it actually adds to the growth. Agree with this guy, in fact, any time spent during leisure activities is stupid and only detrimental to scholarly pursuits.
What the hell is the point of living if you don't do what you like? I hope your being sarcastic, otherwise you are the biggest idiot i've seen in a while.
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United States4796 Posts
Thanks for the wonderful insight.
Well written. I will be vacationing to China next month...and I guess I'll report back with findings?
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On July 24 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 02:44 theqat wrote:On July 24 2009 02:42 baubo wrote:
Btw, using # of subscriptions for WoW is misleading, because Chinese users don't pay the ridiculous monthly fee of Americans. They go by hours. I checked a website that says 30RMB, or ~4 dollars, per 66 hours, which seems about right. The prices are vastly different because, once again, the average Chinese gamer just can't afford the regular monthly subscription. This point was addressed in this thread--even though something like 33% of WOW subscriptions are Chinese, only 7% of WOW revenue comes from China You might want to reread that portion again. Because that's not the numbers I read. The OP assumes China accounts for 5%, with HK, Taiwan, and other Asian countries making up 2% of revenue. I was only questioning this assumption, because I feel it's way too high given my understanding of the economic situation in China. Of course, if the numbers prove correct, I'd gladly take back my statement, since I'd feel that 5% of the total WoW market is relevant. And that given the extreme popularity of DoTA in China, it's not unthinkable that SC2 could make some dough here.
Their 2008 SEC filing gives $1,152,000,000 in revenue from MMORPGs (basically, WOW). It's not inconceivable that a mere $57,600,000 of that comes from China
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On July 24 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:And that given the extreme popularity of DoTA in China, it's not unthinkable that SC2 could make some dough here.
you bring an interesting point. I traveled to many parts of Asia such as Singapore, Vietnam, Philippines, and China. I always go to PC game rooms in these countries. DoTA is the most popular game in the places I been to.
But your statement is the problem: DoTA is not profitable. It's a modded game that is essentially free to play. In all the mentioned countries, DoTA or any other Blizzard games are played on private servers. And let's not be naive here, no one buys WC3 or SC in Asia. Blizzard doesn't make a penny off their old games in Asian countries.
lol fuck it, I think it will be stupid for Blizzard to release SC2 in China.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Excellent read, thanks for sharing :O
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On July 24 2009 02:55 Emlary wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 02:42 baubo wrote:
normal middle-class salaryman makes around $150 a month. $150 = RMB1000 Are you kidding me? Middle-class salaryman makes RMB1000 a month? To be a middle-class, you have to at least make RMB80,000 a month (around one million RMB = $140,000 a year) in my opinion. First year college graduates make $200 to $1,000 per month in China, depending on what kind of job they take.
......
I honestly don't know how to respond to this. I honestly don't.
It's like trying to tell discuss how normal people live with that spoiled rich kid who went to private school all his life and thinks it's normal for kids to get BMWs on their 16th birthday.
On July 24 2009 03:03 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 02:54 baubo wrote:On July 24 2009 02:44 theqat wrote:On July 24 2009 02:42 baubo wrote:
Btw, using # of subscriptions for WoW is misleading, because Chinese users don't pay the ridiculous monthly fee of Americans. They go by hours. I checked a website that says 30RMB, or ~4 dollars, per 66 hours, which seems about right. The prices are vastly different because, once again, the average Chinese gamer just can't afford the regular monthly subscription. This point was addressed in this thread--even though something like 33% of WOW subscriptions are Chinese, only 7% of WOW revenue comes from China You might want to reread that portion again. Because that's not the numbers I read. The OP assumes China accounts for 5%, with HK, Taiwan, and other Asian countries making up 2% of revenue. I was only questioning this assumption, because I feel it's way too high given my understanding of the economic situation in China. Of course, if the numbers prove correct, I'd gladly take back my statement, since I'd feel that 5% of the total WoW market is relevant. And that given the extreme popularity of DoTA in China, it's not unthinkable that SC2 could make some dough here. Their 2008 SEC filing gives $1,152,000,000 in revenue from MMORPGs (basically, WOW). It's not inconceivable that a mere $57,600,000 of that comes from China
Maybe not. I didn't say I was definitely correct. But refer to the original post(all of it, no just the portion quoted). Where I stated my reasons for doubting this.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Really good article - the only thing i disagree with is the notion that Blizzard wouldn't care about 7%. 7% is HUGE when you consider they had over a billion dollars in revenue last year.
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Ah great article, I wasn't too clear what they meant by removing LAN latency at fist, I thought it was referring to something similar to Chaoslauncher where its LAN on bnet, but its referring to the LAN protocol like Hamachi when choosing to log onto bnet, which won't allow people to have LAN parties? I am sure there is a way to reprogram that into the game though, nothing is impossible. I am sure the Chinese will find a way around it and it just screws us over.
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Great read, thanks for posting this insight into chinese gaming industry from blizzards pov.
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amazing article, never seen so much quality in an esports related article.
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On July 24 2009 03:10 Kennigit wrote:
Really good article - the only thing i disagree with is the notion that Blizzard wouldn't care about 7%. 7% is HUGE when you consider they had over a billion dollars in revenue last year.
ofc they care. even blizzard doesnt care about chinese market, that doesnt stop chinese to play blizzard's games, pirate and private server will be everywhere anyways.
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Damned interesting.
Every time I read something like this I just get curiouser. I'm well aware it's completely beyond my understanding, but it's nice to know how much you don't know in these sorts of things. Mostly so that when people talk about it at parties you can keep your mouth shut.
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Amazing read. How do people live there without these web 2.0 facilities? Must be really shitty to be so constrained..
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Very good read, I didn't know most of the things that were said, thank you for this.
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im always been curious... can you use proxys? for instance to see youtube?
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On July 24 2009 03:44 Inzek wrote:
im always been curious... can you use proxys? for instance to see youtube?
ofc, but only 0.01% of chinese knows what proxy means
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I'm always glad when I read these things, as it makes me incredibly happy with where I live and have been raised.
My questions are: Do teens and young adults deal with this casually? Is being complacent a huge part of the Chinese mindset?
I have very distinct memories of not being "allowed" to do things by parents, teachers, and authority figures when I was younger and absolutely hating it. I would imagine that the young Chinese would feel like this is an unreasonable, overbearing parent x100.
On July 24 2009 00:17 Emlary wrote:
The third partner NetEase already signed Starcraft II and the new Battle.Net last year. Blizzard chose it because 1) NetEase is willing to pay more royalty 2) NetEase's boss is a member of the national congress. Government relation is important for business everywhere, but especially important in China. If the government don't like you, they can find the most absurd reason you can imagine to kick you out. Last year when Blizzard tried to register Starcraft: Ghost at the Chinese patent bureau. It was rejected because "Starcraft indicates astrology and Ghost is definitely evil." Yeah, we are communists we are 100% materialistic don't try to infect us with your capitalistic evil things.
This infuriates me and I don't even live there. It's completely irrational, enforced incompetency.
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MURICA15980 Posts
Yeah, in the business world, 7% of your revenue's is a very sizable part of it.
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Do teens and young adults deal with this casually? Is being complacent a huge part of the Chinese mindset?
lemme ask you a question:
if someone asks you, "are you brainwashed?"
how would u answer that?
if u answer "yes", how would u know?! you've been brainwashed, so you can't possibly be conscious of that!
if u answer "no", then you have either:
been brainwashed
or
truly not brainwashed.
if u tell a chinese person that he's missing out on Youtube, wiki, google (some parts), twitter, blogspot. he probably wouldn't care. there are chinese programs that do essentially the same thing, just with different names.
like tudo.com
and the major social networking/gaming/IRC site im.QQ.com
i feel that the average chinese does not mind the presence of the government censoring stuff.
"if the communist party doesn't tell us, we don't need to know"
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The rampant piracy in China always amuses me. Even if you're buying seemingly legitimate copies of something, it can be pirated. I remember my dad buying printed, pirated books before.
On July 24 2009 02:29 See.Blue wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 00:37 Licmyobelisk wrote:
China's like the big brother of the Philippines, just stricter and better economically.
But, can I ask? if the government is corrupt.. why is it that you're country is still economically awesome? It's very contradicting.
LMAO! It's certainly not economically awesome. In fact its far more likely that economic reasons will be the cause of a blow-up in China rather than social woes (read: gov't censorship). GDP per capita (granted only a limited measure of financial well-being) is lower than any first world country's and a socioeconomic divide far greater than America's. Growth is easy in a command economy. Look at Stalinist Russia
China broke away from the command economy after the opening up period in the late 70's. As China embraced more free market elements, it also steered away from using Capitalist as a buzzword. This is why other people in the thread have said Communism is an inaccurate description of China today.
On July 24 2009 03:06 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 02:55 Emlary wrote:On July 24 2009 02:42 baubo wrote:
normal middle-class salaryman makes around $150 a month. $150 = RMB1000 Are you kidding me? Middle-class salaryman makes RMB1000 a month? To be a middle-class, you have to at least make RMB80,000 a month (around one million RMB = $140,000 a year) in my opinion. First year college graduates make $200 to $1,000 per month in China, depending on what kind of job they take. ...... I honestly don't know how to respond to this. I honestly don't. It's like trying to tell discuss how normal people live with that spoiled rich kid who went to private school all his life and thinks it's normal for kids to get BMWs on their 16th birthday.
Yes, I'm going to have to agree with baubo here. It makes no sense for the Chinese middle class to make 3 times what the median household income in the US is. I suppose there's different ways to define middle class. If Emlary means an American middle class in the sense of being able to own a car and house, then I wouldn't be surprised if it was as much as $140k a year since those are luxury goods in China. The Chinese middle class should either be defined by average or median income or something along the lines of enough financial stability to own an apartment and provide food for your family.
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in my country people can play any games. some games like GTA and counter strike has one 18 years old indication, but no important person cares about it and almost nobody has original games. I never had not one original game during all my life... i started downloading roms on irc in 1994 and i keep doing things like this until today. its a shame but i cannot affort original stuff...
i found this article a very interesting one, because i always thought that china was like many electronics stuff everywhere and very tip and people could play anything very easily. now im wondering about that green and dirty thing was said. that must be a boring...
brazil had some militar shit on the past. but it finished in 1985 or something like this. now the country still in a complete chaos. we have robery, murders, stupid politicians, stupid people, bad music, drugs war, many poor people, river overflows, much more bad things, but thanks god we dont have this harmonics and disarmonics... harmony is just some mathematics bullshit developed but normal human beings... i think people should not take it so seriously... but i know that asian people thinks harmony is one important thing... i didnt know that the government use people faith to make money in china just like they do in here... thats a bad thing...
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Depressing...China's censorship and constant subduing and manipulation of it's population. (Like when they banned reincarnation in Tibet making it illegal without "government permission" WTF?!)
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On July 24 2009 03:10 Kennigit wrote:
Really good article - the only thing i disagree with is the notion that Blizzard wouldn't care about 7%. 7% is HUGE when you consider they had over a billion dollars in revenue last year.
It's not worth bending over for, though. Sure, Blizzard would prefer it if China would accept their games so they could all be one happy family- however, consider the following:
1. Revenues are not bottom-line. Profits are bottom-line. The cheaper you sell a product, the lower your profits will be as a proportion of the revenues, assuming fixed costs- in other words, I'm expecting China to represent significantly less than 7% of Blizzard's profits.
2. China is dicking around with Blizzard. The ethical thing to do is to stand your ground and not take the abuse; the other way of doing things is to bend over and take it, offer more bribes and ask them to be gentle.
Truth be told, I only wish Blizzard tried to rally the gaming industry to boycott China until their government starts behaving like grown-ups (no offense to the Chinese community). Giving in only means encouraging the shadiness and corruption in this whole process, and that hurts everyone in the long term (other than the corrupt officials involved).
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This article is a bit extremist, there are some imprecisions.
For example, about site-blocking issue "Blogspot, Facebook, Picasa, Twitter and YouTube ecc.." They are not blocked entirely; but some videos, pictures and sections inside these websites are censored; but all the rest is accessible in normal condition. In "special" situations, they might be closed temporarily.
About the piracy issue, you see it from another point of view.
In China, the majority of people, even the poorest farmer, can afford to have a state of the art PIRATED cellphone.
The piracy is so well spread because the government allows it to spread. By the way, the government has delayed 3G phones in order to develop its own 3G standard, so that it won't have to pay hundreds royalty to western company.
Besides they are also developing the low cost Red-Ray Disk in opposition to Blue-Ray Disk, again they do not want to pay royalties to SONY.
In my opinion they are doing all this for the interest of Chinese people, otherwise few of the 1.3 billion citizens could afford to have a 3G phone or watching HD movies.
By the way, most chinese have already abandoned google in favor of baidu.com which is better in collecting chinese information.
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i just would like to ask one thing... is it true that liu xiaoping was arrested because she was too rich?
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Thanks for the insight on this topic. Quite interesting indeed!
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On July 24 2009 05:27 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 03:10 Kennigit wrote:
Really good article - the only thing i disagree with is the notion that Blizzard wouldn't care about 7%. 7% is HUGE when you consider they had over a billion dollars in revenue last year. It's not worth bending over for, though. Sure, Blizzard would prefer it if China would accept their games so they could all be one happy family- however, consider the following: 1. Revenues are not bottom-line. Profits are bottom-line. The cheaper you sell a product, the lower your profits will be as a proportion of the revenues, assuming fixed costs- in other words, I'm expecting China to represent significantly less than 7% of Blizzard's profits. 2. China is dicking around with Blizzard. The ethical thing to do is to stand your ground and not take the abuse; the other way of doing things is to bend over and take it, offer more bribes and ask them to be gentle. Truth be told, I only wish Blizzard tried to rally the gaming industry to boycott China until their government starts behaving like grown-ups (no offense to the Chinese community). Giving in only means encouraging the shadiness and corruption in this whole process, and that hurts everyone in the long term (other than the corrupt officials involved).
boycott China? lol cmoo... China doesnt care
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On July 24 2009 05:56 emucxg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 05:27 Zato-1 wrote:On July 24 2009 03:10 Kennigit wrote:
Really good article - the only thing i disagree with is the notion that Blizzard wouldn't care about 7%. 7% is HUGE when you consider they had over a billion dollars in revenue last year. It's not worth bending over for, though. Sure, Blizzard would prefer it if China would accept their games so they could all be one happy family- however, consider the following: 1. Revenues are not bottom-line. Profits are bottom-line. The cheaper you sell a product, the lower your profits will be as a proportion of the revenues, assuming fixed costs- in other words, I'm expecting China to represent significantly less than 7% of Blizzard's profits. 2. China is dicking around with Blizzard. The ethical thing to do is to stand your ground and not take the abuse; the other way of doing things is to bend over and take it, offer more bribes and ask them to be gentle. Truth be told, I only wish Blizzard tried to rally the gaming industry to boycott China until their government starts behaving like grown-ups (no offense to the Chinese community). Giving in only means encouraging the shadiness and corruption in this whole process, and that hurts everyone in the long term (other than the corrupt officials involved). boycott China? lol cmoo... China doesnt care
Thing is, China isn't one huge, omniscient entity. The relevant entity in this argument is the chinese government- the Chinese Communist Party.
Not everyone in the communist party is corrupt. It's just in human nature that some people will simply want the satisfaction of a job well done and helping out, while others will want to take advantage of their station. If you raise a racket by boycotting them, maybe you'll attract the attention of some of the more decent officials who will try to set things straight. Maybe not.
At any rate, I'm really not a fan of bending over and taking the abuse, especially in the case of a company like Blizzard which can afford not to do so.
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On July 24 2009 03:29 Kage wrote:
Amazing read. How do people expats live there without these web 2.0 facilities? Must be really shitty to be so constrained..
Fixed.
And I can vouch for this because I am one living in China and get annoyed with this. But none of my Chinese friends really give a damn.
In China people watch Youku, not Youtube. They read Baidu-Baike, not Wikipedia. They use QQ, not MSN. There is more or less a Chinese equivalent of everything the OP mentioned. It only sounds bad because most people who only browse English websites feel the internet only exist in English.
Is Chinese firewall and censorship constraining? Yes. Is it detrimental? No. It's like video game/TV censorship in the US following Colombine and stuff. No player/viewer think they're good. But it's not like anyone wants to overthrow the US government because of it either.
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On July 24 2009 05:56 emucxg wrote:
boycott China? lol cmoo... China doesnt care
Of course not, they are comfortable playing hard ball these days. I am repeating myself, but the Rio Tinto story is too good:
+ Show Spoiler +
* Early 2009, China tries to buy a large stake in Rio Tinto ($20bn investment through Aluminium Corp.). Negotiations fall through however, after politicians in Australia/UK decide they don't want a Chinese company controlling Rio Tinto. China is understandably pissed off: aren't our money just as good as someone elses'? What gives?
* June/July 2009, China wants to at least renegotiate ore prices downwards, entering talks with Rio Tinto. Negotiations fail to get to the price reduction China wanted.
* July 2009, Chinese govt. arrests Riot Tinto execs for "espionage".
Arresting employees when negotiations fail >>> copyright infringements I think.
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Thanks for the great article. It was really interesting and infuriating in some ways how the gov controls everything and everyone. That must be really frustrating living in a land that controls with such a heavy hand.
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@ citi.zen
According to chinese media, after the negotiation failed, chinese steel majors suspected that Rio Tinto may have illegally access to the information about how much iron reserves the majors have, so they conducted researches and found out that some official sold informations to Rio Tinto. Medias have condemned both corrupt official (unpatriotic) and Rio Tinto manners.
@ Trezeguet23
I lived in China, I found it too much uncontrolled instead. In China you can legally watch movies in streaming and direct download all the mp3 you want. You don't even have to use eMule P2P or torrent. It's de facto legal. As far as they are chinese content it's not a problem, since a lot of them are made with taxpayer money, so they must be free; but western majors are usually angry because of this.
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Wow, thanks much for the very eye-opening breakdown of the situation.
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Alot of stereotypes and bias against China i see, believe it or not China has changed dramatically over the last few decades, communists is nothing more than a title for the chinese now, in fact alot of modern businessman/economists would argue that the USA is becoming more socialistic/communists than China itself (central government planning and redistribution of wealth, see all the bailout/stimulus package for reference).
My flat mates were Chinese from mainland china and they told me stories about how the chinese governments censores shit tonnes of foreign stuff coming into the China. Like how they stopped the cinemas from putting up Kungfu Pandas, given the excuse that the movie kinda made fun of pandas... which is like a major WTF lol.
Then again, lets look at it from this perspective, the chinese are trying to develop their own brands and the entertainment sector to reduce imports and reliance on foreign countries, lets face it they are way behind in terms of technology and development, they need to do something to catch up on the western countries, to encourage growth and development of the local entertainment industry, its only natural that their government is trying their best to not let foreign products to stomp all over the local movies and games industry before the they even had a stable footings on their businesses. which explained most of the example given by some of the posters, stuff like youku instead of youtube.
anyways back on topics:
Its a shame that Blizzard has to go through so much shit just to get their products to the Chinese
community, then again, 7% of profits is absolutely nothing to be shunned at. its unlikely that Blizzard would just say a big FUCK YOU to the chinese and walk away.
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On July 24 2009 07:59 Shizuru~ wrote:
believe it or not China has changed dramatically over the last few decades, communists is nothing more than a title for the chinese now, in fact alot of modern businessman/economists would argue that the USA is becoming more socialistic/communists than China itself
I stopped reading here. Anyone who thinks that has no freaking clue about how China works. Do yourself a favor and do a little research on state-owned companies in China.
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Thanks for this article as well as this discussion. Intelligent posters like you guys are the reason I love Teamliquid.
I'm an American, but even I know about video sites like Youku. Youku is a great place to watch pirated Western media for free, even in developed western countries. No other website I've found can retain pirated content for nearly as long as them.
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On July 24 2009 09:10 Athos wrote:
Thanks for this article as well as this discussion. Intelligent posters like you guys are the reason I love Teamliquid.
I'm an American, but even I know about video sites like Youku. Youku is a great place to watch pirated Western media for free, even in developed western countries. No other website I've found can retain pirated content for nearly as long as them.
The level of discussion in TL is pretty high for internet standards, yeah. First website on Starcraft I stumbled upon was SC2GG.com (looking for info on SC2, lol)... and after coming to TL, I never went back. To their forums at any rate, there are still some very good articles written every now and then by their frequent writers like BachHo.
TL is pretty awesome.
As for US v. China: The US is a pretty amazing mixture of a developed country and a dynamic country. As GDP per capita in a country grows, so does government size as a proportion of GDP, usually (if you only consider democratic, capitalist countries). As the state grows, the country makes a tradeoff, gaining nice, politically-correct perks (better health coverage, better social security for instace) and in turn gives up economic competitiveness (bigger government means more red tape, higher taxes and could provide a disincentive to hard work- after all, the worst that can happen isn't so bad if you have a comfortable safety net).
As a developed country, the US is pretty remarkable in that it's still a 'land of opportunity', where bad businesses go bust and new businesses are created all the time. This is very healthy- if you look at a list of the biggest 20 businesses in the US (by market capitalisation), you'll see plenty which are relatively new, or made that list recently. This is good- creative destruction is how economists call it- reallocating resources (read, jobs and capital) to put them to a more efficient use.
Sure, the US has its problems- some of them are pretty huge, in fact. Health care is expensive and bad, education quality has fallen a lot in the last few decades, the theory of evolution is openly questioned and there's plenty of people living with obesity.
I'm also a big fan of oriental culture and growth. But hearing someone say that the US is more of a socialist country China, in which you still can't criticize your political leaders is... jarring.
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konadora
Singapore66161 Posts
Great read. Thanks for this.
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To be honest, I don't think SC II will have any trouble in China. There might be a slight delay in release compared to the states but I highly doubt it'll be a big gap. As to Battle.net 2.0 for China :S I shiver at the image of it... Anyway, considering how competitive China has been in War3 with their own pro-gamers, I don't think they will let SC II just slide into the garbage can.
PS: in china right now and oh facebook blockage pisses me off!
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On July 24 2009 01:16 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I don't see how communism fits into any of this.
Whenever news like this about China pops up, you get a million people saying "god I hate communism," when it's obvious they have no real grasp on what communism is and how it fits in to this. (protip, it really doesn't)
China has strayed so far from communism without going into a system like the western world that it really is its own unique system. It's not democratic, anyone can tell you that, but it is also nothing like communism as outlined by Marx, nor like the state of the USSR.
So communism isn't causing the censorship of SCII in China, it's the really weird and mostly retarded system that China has of dealing with foreign stuff that is.
+1
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what makes blizzard think that pirates won't somehow find a way to simulate bnet 2.0?
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China3334 Posts
On July 24 2009 04:37 VictorW wrote:
Yes, I'm going to have to agree with baubo here. It makes no sense for the Chinese middle class to make 3 times what the median household income in the US is. I suppose there's different ways to define middle class. If Emlary means an American middle class in the sense of being able to own a car and house, then I wouldn't be surprised if it was as much as $140k a year since those are luxury goods in China. The Chinese middle class should either be defined by average or median income or something along the lines of enough financial stability to own an apartment and provide food for your family.
Read some definitions of Middle Class through Wiki (Baidu-Baike is nowhere near Wiki in term of article quality, source of quote and damn censorship.) National statictics bureau said RMB60K to RMB500K ($9,000 to $75,000) of annual household income were midle classes in China back in 2005, but lots domestic media didn't agree with it.
I may take this too far by saying making one million RMB a year is middle classes in China. Does having an apartment and a car sound more reasonable to describe middle classes? If so, buying an 100 squaremeter aparment in the first tier cities in China (Shanghai, Beijing, etc.) is about RBM1.5 million to RMB2 million. The price is lower as you go to lower tier cities. Having a non-BMW car is like RMB100K to RMB200K. I don't think one can afford these by making less than RMB100K a year. Actually most young Chinese who need a house to get married can't even afford the down payment. Usually their parents pay down payments, they pay monthly mortgage loan.
Btw, talking about the thoughts of majority on censorship, yes, elder generation like my parents, they have a happy life and they don't even know YouTube, Facebook, etc. They don't have to know actually. Their demands are satisfied and they don't care who did Urumqi Riot, or WoW content update was delayed for years in China, or the upcoming disaster movie 2012 won't be available in Chinese theaters because it contains fictional scene some China terra would be destroyed (oh shit! definitely disharmony).
But this doesn't work out with my generation. And it's getting worse.
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Imagine if China banned TL.
Imagine your country was China.
Put 1 and 1 together.
??????
Degenerate into NerdRage.
China is a very collectivist country. Individuals and their rights are not as respected as the nation's interest. In China, the nation is your life, family is your life, you serve.
I hurt.
For all the gamers in that country. I hurt.
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The Chinese government has clearly not seen the Penn and Teller: Bullshit! episode on video game violence. I would not stand for that shit if I lived in China.. I feel for you Chinese gamers. That's such a bitch.
Move away IMO
In other news, this week the American news satire company "the Onion" has a new regime - so to speak - at the top.
http://www.theonion.com/content/index
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On July 24 2009 02:57 Vision wrote:
What the hell is the point of living if you don't do what you like? I hope your being sarcastic, otherwise you are the biggest idiot i've seen in a while.
wow. anyone that doesn't agree that the most prestigious point of living is "doing what you like" is an idiot?
..
wow.
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Baa?21243 Posts
On July 24 2009 12:29 sArite_nite wrote:
I hurt.
For all the gamers in that country. I hurt.
Ironic then that China has what is probably the most active Starcraft scene outside of Korea, and the most active WCIII scene, in addition to very active scenes in other games such as CS.
What people who aren't living/haven't lived in China usually don't understand is that these days, what the government does is almost completely separate from the concerns of the everyday Chinese. The government knows better than to actually interfere with the everyday life of people in China - THAT would get people very pissed off. The general view of the Chinese people is that the government can say whatever they want, and as long as it's not affecting everyday life, it's all good.
You can see it as a very odd state with almost two separate entities each doing their own thing in China - the government and the people, and as long as one doesn't cross into the territory of the other, everything stays "harmonious."
At least, that's the vibe I'm getting in China.
@ Emlary:
RMB 80000 per month as middle class? Are you sure you didn't stick an extra 0 on that?
Even then, 8000 RMB per month is a tad on the high side. I'd say 4000-5000 would be the average for middle class. Maybe 6000-8000 in bigger cities like Beijing.
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This is really nothing to do with communism in the marxist-leninist sense; Marx was one of the greatest advocates of free speech to ever live. The problems here are symptomatic of dictatorship, not communism.
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Baa?21243 Posts
China's not a dictatorship though.
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@Carnivours sheep, if you read the rest of Emlary's post, you'd see that it's not just an extra zero. He thinks that having a house(or basically a condo in China) and a car is considered middle class in China. Which, of course, is just so outrageous I don't even know where to start.
What's even worse is that he talks about reading the wiki, when the wiki and any other English source clearly states that middle class has nothing to do with having a car or owning your own house. It has everything to do with being a skilled laborer who's not doing manual labor, but also not among the elite of society. It shows how disconnected he is with everyday society and normal working Chinese folks.
Even though I personally used to make quite a lot compared to an average Chinese person(before I went back to school), I I at least know many hard-working true middle-class Chinese on a personal level. From big cities like Beijing and Shanghai down to small towns. It kind of helped that I traveled quite a bit. Anyway, it has really been an eye-popping experience for me, as it really cleared a lot of misconceptions about the country and the people that I used to have while living in the US.
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On July 24 2009 06:47 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 05:56 emucxg wrote:
boycott China? lol cmoo... China doesnt care Of course not, they are comfortable playing hard ball these days. I am repeating myself, but the Rio Tinto story is too good: + Show Spoiler +* Early 2009, China tries to buy a large stake in Rio Tinto ($20bn investment through Aluminium Corp.). Negotiations fall through however, after politicians in Australia/UK decide they don't want a Chinese company controlling Rio Tinto. China is understandably pissed off: aren't our money just as good as someone elses'? What gives? * June/July 2009, China wants to at least renegotiate ore prices downwards, entering talks with Rio Tinto. Negotiations fail to get to the price reduction China wanted. * July 2009, Chinese govt. arrests Riot Tinto execs for " espionage". Arresting employees when negotiations fail >>> copyright infringements I think.
The arrest of Hu was China's way of asserting control over a critical industry sector that was left unregulated for too long.
Iron ore prices pretty much dictate the price of everything else so I wasn't surprised that Chinese government decided to act. Hu might not be "spying" but he definately pissed off some people and given the fact that the dude was/is Chinese with an Australian passport, he should've known better.
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On July 24 2009 14:54 baubo wrote:
@Carnivours sheep, if you read the rest of Emlary's post, you'd see that it's not just an extra zero. He thinks that having a house(or basically a condo in China) and a car is considered middle class in China. Which, of course, is just so outrageous I don't even know where to start.
What's even worse is that he talks about reading the wiki, when the wiki and any other English source clearly states that middle class has nothing to do with having a car or owning your own house. It has everything to do with being a skilled laborer who's not doing manual labor, but also not among the elite of society. It shows how disconnected he is with everyday society and normal working Chinese folks.
Even though I personally used to make quite a lot compared to an average Chinese person(before I went back to school), I I at least know many hard-working true middle-class Chinese on a personal level. From big cities like Beijing and Shanghai down to small towns. It kind of helped that I traveled quite a bit. Anyway, it has really been an eye-popping experience for me, as it really cleared a lot of misconceptions about the country and the people that I used to have while living in the US.
Emlary's assertion wasn't outrageous. I don't know, but economic status as a validation of middle-classness sounds very right too me.
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Russian Federation14 Posts
If you don't know how to deal with communism, it is your problem, not the problem of communists.
Chinese government is really awesome, the are moving their country forward in an outstanding way.
So if you find some problem in sc2 it's not because of evil red communists, it's because blizzard sucks. Yes' it's quite hard to deal with russian government, and with chinese also - but it is possible. Bernie Ecclestone made chinese GP, UEFA championship league final was in Moscow. Microsoft got quite a lot of money on "legalizing" Windows, until they become to greedy. And that was their problem.
btw, livejournal.com is also banned )
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China3334 Posts
On July 24 2009 16:04 fleesy wrote:
btw, livejournal.com is also banned )
Pretty sure LJ is banned for slash porn LOL Slash fangirls owned.
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Basically China is a self defeating situation. By this I mean as their affluence increases so will the average education & self worth level increase. Atm in the 'East' and in China the worst ppl hold to class systems, they actually think they are less then someone in high authority/position, in that they think everyone above them in right & better then them so there own opinions are worthless.
This self deprecating social system has existed the world over but it is still very prevalent in the East as its been so ingrained in there life and history.
But as the education and westernisation of the lifestyle permeates the major chinese cities you'll get more and more social outbursts and drive for less corruption and democracy in place of communism, its just the natural order of civilisation.
And with the internet however much the chinese government wants to censor the spread of information; information is being spread regardless and ppl are just generally seeing what is going throughout the country more easily as communication/interaction is getting better.
We will slowly(as slowly as possible) see the communist party give more and more rights and become less corrupt but it will take a good few generations more as the corruption and ingrained weakness of the power in the populace is still ruled by an iron fist. Don't expect to see democracy or less corruption in our lifetimes as the dictators in china(government officials) are making far to much money and weld far to much military power over the ppl to be stopped anytime soon. The corruption may ease towards the ends of our lifetimes but not so significantly as that is the nature of that government.
I'd say it will be at least 200 years before china has the equivalent of an average(todays) western countrys corruption and rights for ppl. The only way that will be speeded up is through war or a revolution(next to impossible as the ppl who are climbing the social ladder will not rock the boat).
It sounds like i'm h8'ing on china a lot and I guess I am but i'm not totally against some of the positive things communism is supposed to bring like social housing/health for all etc. The thing is as much as China is said to be a communistic state it isn't. Its just a normal run of the mill dictatorship the same as many other country's. The only difference being it has nukes, military, land, economy all of which are strong enough to make them to hard of a target to want to interfer with. The economy of china = cheap production for the west and that = bigger profit margin so nothings gonna happen unless the west simply increases taxes on all chinese exports. That is probably the fastest way to increase businesses and jobs in the west and get the world out of a recession too boot.
Anyway rant over. Btw, I like oriental women so the second i'd get with one I'd switch my views in an instant if needed :p
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The ghost is definitely evil. yes.
The communist party is the only political party in China, 'cuz all the other ones were driven out (look at those cute little nationalists in Taiwan... yeah become independent and we nuke you). They pretty much censor anything that is or has the possibility of going against the party - like small tribal group websites that advocate superstition as a substitute for modern medicine, and more important things like Facebook, and ACTUALLY important things like YouTube T.T.
But it's getting better... even though the political system here is more like a one-party "republic." The stupid thing is that most chinese can't even read the slander against the communist party / china, and most of the people who can are smart enough to not care.
On July 24 2009 15:52 haduken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 14:54 baubo wrote:
@Carnivours sheep, if you read the rest of Emlary's post, you'd see that it's not just an extra zero. He thinks that having a house(or basically a condo in China) and a car is considered middle class in China. Which, of course, is just so outrageous I don't even know where to start.
What's even worse is that he talks about reading the wiki, when the wiki and any other English source clearly states that middle class has nothing to do with having a car or owning your own house. It has everything to do with being a skilled laborer who's not doing manual labor, but also not among the elite of society. It shows how disconnected he is with everyday society and normal working Chinese folks.
Even though I personally used to make quite a lot compared to an average Chinese person(before I went back to school), I I at least know many hard-working true middle-class Chinese on a personal level. From big cities like Beijing and Shanghai down to small towns. It kind of helped that I traveled quite a bit. Anyway, it has really been an eye-popping experience for me, as it really cleared a lot of misconceptions about the country and the people that I used to have while living in the US.
Emlary's assertion wasn't outrageous. I don't know, but economic status as a validation of middle-classness sounds very right too me.
Somewhat off-topic: if you live in Beijing, you take the taxi (or t3hbus if youre frugal and all that); if you live in a rural area, you dont have a car anyway. 8000yuan/month is pretty average.
ALSO:
The chinese government hasn't discovered the existence of proxy websites / servers yet... happyface
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[quote]and more important things like Facebook, and ACTUALLY important things like YouTube T.T. /quote]
IMPORTANT
As I already said, they are not banned entirely, but some profiles or some videos may not be visible due to the censorship. All the rest is normally accessible in normal conditions. But in "special condition" they might be blocked temporarily.
[quote]The chinese government hasn't discovered the existence of proxy websites / servers yet... happyface[/quote]
Oh they know about it, like every nerd teenager in China. The Great Firewall is made for the average people, not medium skilled pc users.
@ Adeeler
[quote]But as the education and westernisation of the lifestyle permeates the major chinese cities you'll get more and more social outbursts and drive for less corruption and democracy in place of communism, its just the natural order of civilisation[/quote]
Your brainwashed point of view could be very offensive, please contain youself.
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On July 24 2009 15:49 haduken wrote:
The arrest of Hu was China's way of asserting control over a critical industry sector that was left unregulated for too long.
The government already has control over national companies. This is about hard-ball negotiations with a foreign entity, not "regulation".
By the way, China is hardly alone in taking a heavy-handed approach to industrial policy & foreign companies. As I mentioned earlier, Australia had no place blocking the Chinese from investing their money how they saw fit. In the US this happened in the 1980's with Japanese investors a lot, and more recently with the Chinese/Arab investors (example). European countries are notorious for "protecting" national companies as well.
Iron ore prices pretty much dictate the price of everything else so I wasn't surprised that Chinese government decided to act. Hu might not be "spying" but he definately pissed off some people and given the fact that the dude was/is Chinese with an Australian passport, he should've known better.
Him "pissing off" people has less to do with it than the broader context & decision to intimidate. At any rate, this is where China differs from other countries: Australia did not jail Chinese people on made-up charges when they were trying to buy Rio Tinto. The US did not arrest the representatives of Dubai Ports either. There is a human rights issue here, ( as opposed to the consumer/investor rights), which is approached rather differently in China.
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The bad thing with WoW is, if they don't offer anything to china, the private server making will skyrocket up, and make it more of a playable experience for the europeans\americans\etc.
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Five million Chinese World of Warcraft players... Q1 fiscal results... Asia Pacific contributed only 7% of total revenues (Asia revenues = WoW revenues)...
I'm confused I guess. Is there a much reduced subscription fee in Asia or something? If not, then I don't see how your numbers work and perhaps someone can explain where I'm going wrong.
5x10^6 * $15/mo * 3mo/Quarter = 2.25x10^8$/Q
Let's conservatively round that up to about 0.25B to add in retail WoW sales for expansion / new customers.
So, 0.25B = 7% of total revenue.
You say that 39% of the total revenue of Activision-Blizzard for Q1 was WoW-related, which means that WoW made ~1.4B in Q1.
So that means in the rest of the world WoW made 1.15B??
The subscription fees from the rest of the world cover 0.225B as previously noted (approx same number of people). So... where is the rest of that 0.925B coming from?
Even if all 5mil subscribers outside of the Asia-Pacific area bought WotLK, that accounts for only ~0.2B. Is Activision-Blizzard really making 0.725B per QUARTER from the TCG, toys, books, etc surrounding the IP? I know we're talking about revenue and not direct profit, but that still seems pretty crazy for video game merchandise related to one IP.
Am I wrong here?
Does someone have a link to breakdown of revenue for Activision-Blizzard or a source to the info in this article? I know WoW is a cash cow, but that seems excessive.
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On July 25 2009 04:23 Tsuwraith wrote:Show nested quote +Five million Chinese World of Warcraft players... Q1 fiscal results... Asia Pacific contributed only 7% of total revenues (Asia revenues = WoW revenues)... I'm confused I guess. Is there a much reduced subscription fee in Asia or something?
Yes, obviously. At least in China. They pay a fraction of what North American, South American and European customers pay.
EDIT: WoW suscriptions are paid by the hour in China. Approximately 0.065 US dollars per hour (0.45 yuan). US$1 a month if you played 15 hours that month for instance.
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On July 25 2009 05:08 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2009 04:23 Tsuwraith wrote:Five million Chinese World of Warcraft players... Q1 fiscal results... Asia Pacific contributed only 7% of total revenues (Asia revenues = WoW revenues)... I'm confused I guess. Is there a much reduced subscription fee in Asia or something? Yes, obviously. At least in China. They pay a fraction of what North American, South American and European customers pay. EDIT: WoW suscriptions are paid by the hour in China. Approximately 0.065 US dollars per hour (0.45 yuan). US$1 a month if you played 15 hours that month for instance.
Ah, ok. I don't think it was obvious, but it does make a lot more sense now. Thanks.
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On July 24 2009 14:14 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 12:29 sArite_nite wrote:
I hurt.
For all the gamers in that country. I hurt. Ironic then that China has what is probably the most active Starcraft scene outside of Korea, and the most active WCIII scene, in addition to very active scenes in other games such as CS. What people who aren't living/haven't lived in China usually don't understand is that these days, what the government does is almost completely separate from the concerns of the everyday Chinese. The government knows better than to actually interfere with the everyday life of people in China - THAT would get people very pissed off. The general view of the Chinese people is that the government can say whatever they want, and as long as it's not affecting everyday life, it's all good. You can see it as a very odd state with almost two separate entities each doing their own thing in China - the government and the people, and as long as one doesn't cross into the territory of the other, everything stays "harmonious." At least, that's the vibe I'm getting in China. @ Emlary: RMB 80000 per month as middle class? Are you sure you didn't stick an extra 0 on that? Even then, 8000 RMB per month is a tad on the high side. I'd say 4000-5000 would be the average for middle class. Maybe 6000-8000 in bigger cities like Beijing.
And so this will be all fine and dandy until blizzard decides to cut and run and Chinese people never get to play Starcraft 2 in their own country because the government makes retarded, unscientific decisions about what the citizens can and cannot do? And then what? You'll whine a little? Nothing will change if the attitude you represent persists.
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On July 25 2009 05:53 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 14:14 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 24 2009 12:29 sArite_nite wrote:
I hurt.
For all the gamers in that country. I hurt. Ironic then that China has what is probably the most active Starcraft scene outside of Korea, and the most active WCIII scene, in addition to very active scenes in other games such as CS. What people who aren't living/haven't lived in China usually don't understand is that these days, what the government does is almost completely separate from the concerns of the everyday Chinese. The government knows better than to actually interfere with the everyday life of people in China - THAT would get people very pissed off. The general view of the Chinese people is that the government can say whatever they want, and as long as it's not affecting everyday life, it's all good. You can see it as a very odd state with almost two separate entities each doing their own thing in China - the government and the people, and as long as one doesn't cross into the territory of the other, everything stays "harmonious." At least, that's the vibe I'm getting in China. @ Emlary: RMB 80000 per month as middle class? Are you sure you didn't stick an extra 0 on that? Even then, 8000 RMB per month is a tad on the high side. I'd say 4000-5000 would be the average for middle class. Maybe 6000-8000 in bigger cities like Beijing. And so this will be all fine and dandy until blizzard decides to cut and run and Chinese people never get to play Starcraft 2 in their own country because the government makes retarded, unscientific decisions about what the citizens can and cannot do? And then what? You'll whine a little? Nothing will change if the attitude you represent persists.
This sounds utterly unrealistic to me. LAN or no LAN, I find it highly unlikely that no one will manage to crack SC2. Regardless of Blizzard's presence or abscence from China, SC2 will be played there, and mostly on pirate servers. The only way SC2 won't make it into China is if Blizzard pulls another Starcraft: Ghost and pulls the plug on SC2.
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That's great - but I doubt people with pirated versions of the game will ever get to play in the sanctioned tournaments. I'm confidant SC2 tournaments will be completely run by blizzard, on battle.net, and if the only thing Chinese gamers can play are pirated versions they'll never get to participate in those tournaments.
It's just a bummer for them, I don't understand why the Chinese people in this thread seem to think there's no problem with China banning Starcraft 2 from their country.
But honestly, in retrospect, I take back my sympathy for those gamers if they don't even want to do anything to fix it themselves.
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Anything can be cracked, Zato is right I think.
The usual complaint you hear in these cases is not that Blizzard will cut & run now, but that it will hurt future product development. If everyone pirates SC2, there will surely be no Blizzard tech support, official patches, not to mention no possibility for SC3 some day. Its the same thing you hear from the movie industry, record labels (but since music takes less of an upfront investment to create the effect should be less severe, with the possible exception of fancy video-clips), pharma companies on existing drugs vs. future R&D, etc. etc.
+ Show Spoiler + People ignore this in the health care debate all the time when debating the benefits of patents vs. store brand drugs. Example: "If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half-price for the thing that's going to make you well?" — Obama at July 22 press conference. Remind you of anyone? + Show Spoiler +"You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." - Morpheus in The Matrix
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On July 25 2009 07:14 citi.zen wrote:Anything can be cracked, Zato is right I think. The usual complaint you hear in these cases is not that Blizzard will cut & run now, but that it will hurt future product development. If everyone pirates SC2, there will surely be no Blizzard tech support, official patches, not to mention no possibility for SC3 some day. Its the same thing you hear from the movie industry, record labels (but since music takes less of an upfront investment to create the effect should be less severe, with the possible exception of fancy video-clips), pharma companies on existing drugs vs. future R&D, etc. etc. + Show Spoiler + People ignore this in the health care debate all the time when debating the benefits of patents vs. store brand drugs. Example: "If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half-price for the thing that's going to make you well?" — Obama at July 22 press conference. Remind you of anyone? + Show Spoiler +"You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." - Morpheus in The Matrix
If your spoiler derails this thread... i swear to god...
And I agree with the post above yours. Blizzard is making an e-sport (or hoping too). They are now the keeper of the keys. If you don't play on a Blizzard licensed tournament then you are not part of the sport. Its simple, if you ever ever ever want to get ANY recognition (unlicensed tornies will just get shut down n asses sued) or have ANY ambitions of turning pro, then you better damn well buy the game.
I see it as a fairly good move by Blizzard. They're 'making a community': if you choose not to be a part of that community then you can kiss your 'pro' ass goodbye!
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TBH, I think the piracy argument is overblown. Piracy isn't nearly as big of a problem as some would like you to think. Sure, the RIAA will tell you it's the spawn of the devil- but honestly, at least half the problem is their outdated business model. With many people, the problem is not that the music is too expensive- it's that getting it legally is too inconvenient. Why do you have to drive over to a record store and buy a CD disk when all you want is a single music track? The iTunes music store's smashing success is a testament to this argument.
But hey, what do I know, right? Don't take it from me- take it from the pros. The legitimate portion of PC gaming was dying before Steam- all that needed to be done was to distribute your product as conveniently (or more conveniently) as pirates do it.
Maybe my argument isn't as valid in China. But at least in countries where consumers can afford your game, mass piracy is symptomatic of an awful distribution process more than anything else.
I don't really know enough about the pharmaceutical business to give an educated opinion on it.
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On July 25 2009 08:53 Tyraz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2009 07:14 citi.zen wrote:Anything can be cracked, Zato is right I think. The usual complaint you hear in these cases is not that Blizzard will cut & run now, but that it will hurt future product development. If everyone pirates SC2, there will surely be no Blizzard tech support, official patches, not to mention no possibility for SC3 some day. Its the same thing you hear from the movie industry, record labels (but since music takes less of an upfront investment to create the effect should be less severe, with the possible exception of fancy video-clips), pharma companies on existing drugs vs. future R&D, etc. etc. + Show Spoiler + People ignore this in the health care debate all the time when debating the benefits of patents vs. store brand drugs. Example: "If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half-price for the thing that's going to make you well?" — Obama at July 22 press conference. Remind you of anyone? + Show Spoiler +"You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." - Morpheus in The Matrix Its simple, if you ever ever ever want to get ANY recognition (unlicensed tornies will just get shut down n asses sued) or have ANY ambitions of turning pro, then you better damn well buy the game.
Uh... good luck suing unlicensed tournaments organized and held in China.
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lol, it seems like you, with no understand of the culture there, think that not having privileges to the pro-gaming community is somehow detrimental and contributes to a domestic disturbance of some sort? the game itself is entertainment, and as entertainment goes, people don't really care if they play sc2, or sc2 crack, or sc 2.3 chinese version made by lao da bao.
the government's "crackdown" on sc2 and wc3 is simply what the government has done b4 for the last w/e years, with many website. This is just the extention of that action. its just it is coming to view now in light of sc2 and people are outraged at this when there really isn't anything to be outraged about. anyone who knows china and chinese culture and how things are run there isn't surprised at all and really isn't angered by this either.
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On July 24 2009 23:15 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2009 15:49 haduken wrote:
The arrest of Hu was China's way of asserting control over a critical industry sector that was left unregulated for too long. The government already has control over national companies. This is about hard-ball negotiations with a foreign entity, not "regulation". By the way, China is hardly alone in taking a heavy-handed approach to industrial policy & foreign companies. As I mentioned earlier, Australia had no place blocking the Chinese from investing their money how they saw fit. In the US this happened in the 1980's with Japanese investors a lot, and more recently with the Chinese/Arab investors ( example). European countries are notorious for "protecting" national companies as well. Show nested quote + Iron ore prices pretty much dictate the price of everything else so I wasn't surprised that Chinese government decided to act. Hu might not be "spying" but he definately pissed off some people and given the fact that the dude was/is Chinese with an Australian passport, he should've known better.
Him "pissing off" people has less to do with it than the broader context & decision to intimidate. At any rate, this is where China differs from other countries: Australia did not jail Chinese people on made-up charges when they were trying to buy Rio Tinto. The US did not arrest the representatives of Dubai Ports either. There is a human rights issue here, ( as opposed to the consumer/investor rights), which is approached rather differently in China.
Chinalco accepted the 33% reduction a few days after the arrest. If this was an intimadation tactic, it sure made a lot of sense -_-.
Rio had a previous CEO fired for not backing the deal with China. So you failed to convince me that the Australians were engaging in protectionism (Even if they were, it was the correct thing to do).
As I mentioned earlier, Australia had no place blocking the Chinese from investing their money how they saw fit.
Excuse me? I didn't see China letting Aussies or ANY other nations invest in their telecommunication, mining, Nuclear etc etc etc. Be fair my friend, be fair.
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On July 25 2009 10:13 Creationism wrote:
the government's "crackdown" on sc2 and wc3 is simply what the government has done b4 for the last w/e years, with many website. This is just the extention of that action. its just it is coming to view now in light of sc2 and people are outraged at this when there really isn't anything to be outraged about. anyone who knows china and chinese culture and how things are run there isn't surprised at all and really isn't angered by this either.
So could you please explain why this doesn't anger you (in respect of chinese culture)? I mean "it's the way it is" is hardly a reason. Because either you are not pissed because you don't care if the government makes poor decisions or you don't think it's actually a bad decision.
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You brought up Ghost. Now I'm sad 
Interesting read though
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On July 25 2009 15:36 silynxer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2009 10:13 Creationism wrote:
the government's "crackdown" on sc2 and wc3 is simply what the government has done b4 for the last w/e years, with many website. This is just the extention of that action. its just it is coming to view now in light of sc2 and people are outraged at this when there really isn't anything to be outraged about. anyone who knows china and chinese culture and how things are run there isn't surprised at all and really isn't angered by this either.
So could you please explain why this doesn't anger you (in respect of chinese culture)? I mean "it's the way it is" is hardly a reason. Because either you are not pissed because you don't care if the government makes poor decisions or you don't think it's actually a bad decision.
Don't read too much into it. If your government has always pulled stunts like this one to the point where you're not surprised when another one happens, you're unlikely to grow indignant when they're dicking around with yet another company. It's always been that way in China- people there may not be familiar with any other way of going about things.
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DON'T WORRY PEOPLE.
Chinese SC fans have already found the solution.
There is always the TAIWAN version to play with!
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Great read and very enlightening. I did not know all those sights were blocked in China :o how ignorant of me. We really have it well here in the 'western world'
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EPT
