EPTbut nony? he knew that there is gonna be lag problem and according to ash it was so big... what did he expected? that its gonna be like in estro house on lan??
Liquibition #29 - Delayed! - Page 3
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kulik-
Czech Republic305 Posts
but nony? he knew that there is gonna be lag problem and according to ash it was so big... what did he expected? that its gonna be like in estro house on lan?? | ||
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H
New Zealand6138 Posts
On March 21 2009 20:20 Ash wrote: My one and only argument would be do you seriously think 99% of the top foreigners will provide the so-called lag free games to these players(IdrA , Nony)? What's going to happen to our community if LAN latency wasnt implemented in the first place? Will the community die just because these players cant play in LAN speed? Note: F91 was even able to provide a close to lan speed game which nony refused to play in. This is an online series not a lan event FYI No, but 99% of top foreigners outside of China don't lag as much as the ones in China. On March 21 2009 20:24 ondik wrote: Good luck fighting with biased mills Ash The irony. Chinese players can do it!!! So can the other foreigners!! :eyeroll: | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On March 21 2009 21:16 kulik- wrote: i didnt said that u are making excuse i just try say... that everyone knows taht chinese have lag problem so if is problem for u dont play vs them... nobody force u to play again F91... u saw chance of playing this event... to make some money... u face it quite well... u played and lost ok... but nony? he knew that there is gonna be lag problem and according to ash it was so big... what did he expected? that its gonna be like in estro house on lan?? actually he had reason to believe there wouldnt be a lag problem because of the lag test. when he plays and sees that it lags he leaves. i dont see anything wrong with that. whereas i just played it out and then everyone jumped on my ass afterwards saying i was lying about the lag to downplay my loss. that aside, he did not agree to play in lag. he agreed to play liquibition. are foreigners not allowed to play in any event chinese choose to play if they dont want to deal with lag? | ||
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Blunderbore
Lithuania23 Posts
On March 21 2009 18:33 Plexa wrote: There are times when things just never go the way they do huh? | ||
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bludragen88
United States527 Posts
Saying that everyone can play in lag equally well is bullshit. Just like the casters explained during the strelok vs f91 series, lag affects different sides of every matchup differently. Even in a mirror matches this is true... what if a PvP game was 2 gate robo versus 4 gate - the person with the reaver would probably be at a disadvantage (or much less of an advantage) because they have far more micro intensive work to do. While you could choose your strategies to account for this fact, it can seriously change or even break the delicate balancing of different strategies at high levels of the game. That being said, I hope the games get played soon, and I hope Ash stops responding to every single post in this thread and just waits for the Liquibition to make its own statement. We know you want to support your player, and you may have some idea of what sportmanship is, but I think that being classy is a big part of sportsmanship (even in sports as brutal as American Football), and your posts have not been. | ||
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nebffa
Australia776 Posts
nony is allegedly a very mannered person. if a person is unmannered about lag they generally wait till after they have lost to fully lay the blame upon lag. | ||
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H
New Zealand6138 Posts
On March 21 2009 21:32 nebffa wrote: why would someone turn down playing liquibition? I dunno, maybe the reasons already mentioned in the prior 3 pages of the thread and the original post? I love TL and the people who work for it, but Liquibition is just another tournament with a money prize. | ||
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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kulik-
Czech Republic305 Posts
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7th-Real
Australia93 Posts
LL seems to feel like extra high latency even with it on low latency in game. most of the time someone is lagging, the game might look smooth, but its still taking two seconds for units to move. I've had times on iccup on extra high lat where I've been able to 1a2a3a4a5a6a twice and still have to wait a second for my army to start moving, and I'm by no means fast on the keyboard. To an observer its going to look like the player was just slow in acting, while the player he's thinking something along the lines of 'WHAT THE FUCK I MOVED MY SHUTTLE WHAT THE FUCK WAS IT DOING' F91 probably plays a very large portion of his games with two seconds of delay, most people aren't used to it. not to discount his skill but I think the liquibitions with him involved so far would have been MUCH closer if he didn't lag. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
Of course Mani didn't notice the lag. This is what I meant by "brought up by people other than you". If IdrA, who has been playing on lan latency for 6+ months, notices lag, and Manifesto, who has only ever played SC on battle.net and iccup, doesn't notice the lag, where is the surprise? The difference is in the perception. Once again, just because Chinese and Koreans CAN play games doesn't mean that an American or a Korean person is OBLIGATED to play those games against Chinese players. I think that if you are playing online against across continent opponents any lag not noticeable by an observer should be fine to play with, despite not being perfect. It is more like a delay than lag and delay is expected, but lag (the constant small interruptions of the game) is really bad. Idra noticed a delay and asking an observer to leave is always a possibility. Idra is holding up to really high standards because of his offline experience. It is understandable that it bothers him. However in my opinion if a non noticeable lag for observers (and opponent btw) bothers a player I think he is unsuited for playing leagues and tournaments online. Though looking to improve the delay with proxies and asking observers to leave to make the connection as good as possible is a given. Give a little take a little the conditions aren't going to be perfect. The games of Idra vs F91 might have improved after Mani left but even then the small delay could have stayed and it shouldn't have been a big deal for an online series. The difference is indeed perception, if you are used to playing in an offline environment and know that everyone else isn't you need to perceive things not from your own perspective but from one where you know everyone else isn't going to mind playing with a small delay so neither should you. If you want to play online tournaments delay is going to be a part of this. Real lag is inexcusable, but there is a clear difference. To an observer its going to look like the player was just slow in acting, while the player he's thinking something along the lines of 'WHAT THE FUCK I MOVED MY SHUTTLE WHAT THE FUCK WAS IT DOING' F91 probably plays a very large portion of his games with two seconds of delay, most people aren't used to it. not to discount his skill but I think the liquibitions with him involved so far would have been MUCH closer if he didn't lag. He didn't 'lag' vs Idra even Idra says it was fine so what are you talking about? The only times I've had a delay as large as 2s is when the actual game was moving in spikes. In a game seemingly perfect I have never seen a delay that large. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On March 21 2009 22:20 7th-Real wrote: in regards to observers not noticing lag, of course they arent going to. LL seems to feel like extra high latency even with it on low latency in game. most of the time someone is lagging, the game might look smooth, but its still taking two seconds for units to move. I've had times on iccup on extra high lat where I've been able to 1a2a3a4a5a6a twice and still have to wait a second for my army to start moving, and I'm by no means fast on the keyboard. To an observer its going to look like the player was just slow in acting, while the player he's thinking something along the lines of 'WHAT THE FUCK I MOVED MY SHUTTLE WHAT THE FUCK WAS IT DOING' F91 probably plays a very large portion of his games with two seconds of delay, most people aren't used to it. not to discount his skill but I think the liquibitions with him involved so far would have been MUCH closer if he didn't lag. Except F91 is terrifying in offline competitions with his micro. He is just an incredibly skilled, unorthodox player that presents a unique challenge to a lot of people who are so stringent in their builds like Nony, Idra etc. F91 "probably" plays the majority of his games with other Chinese and with Koreans, who geographically he is very close to and probably doesn't lag to at all. So let's not pretend like F91 is acclimated to lag and that's the reason he wins games, that's so wrong and proves a lot of ignorance on the part of people who say things like that. He is a good player, that is all. Zerg typically has less reactive micro to do outside of mutas in starcraft, so I think the race in general is easier to play in laggy conditions for the most part. I'll give people that. Concerning Nony, he's really similar in mindset to Idra in my opinion, in the way he believes so strongly in his abilities. Without the BM that is, I don't think he's a bad sportsman at all it's just my view of him, he's someone who believes very strongly in themselves and that's where they get a lot of their ability. So I'm not surprised to find out playing in a bit of lag is going to be frustrating for him especially he loses because of it. I don't doubt the lag affected his play, and I don't doubt that he wants to win and show everyone good games. I also think from watching his xfire stream, he is not in top form and F91 will easily win this series in any circumstances. There's going to be lag in US vs China games, and in most of Europe as well. That's just the reality of playing against Chinese players. I'm tired of seeing it being used as an excuse to be honest because everyone knows it's going to happen. They have to work together if they want to get these games played by trying to get them played over the course of the week, and that's all people are trying to get done I think. | ||
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SoulMarine
United States586 Posts
Garena lets you tunnel and host on a UDP, but the catch is you can do this with any internet connection as if you were hooked to the other computer And why not chaos? is that not allowed or something? | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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ZlyKiss
Poland697 Posts
F91 is not invincible, many players can give us a good match vs him. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
On March 21 2009 22:20 7th-Real wrote: F91 probably plays a very large portion of his games with two seconds of delay, most people aren't used to it. not to discount his skill but I think the liquibitions with him involved so far would have been MUCH closer if he didn't lag. What?? Is there any support or evidence to this? | ||
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jxzcvk
Australia4 Posts
On March 21 2009 21:22 IdrA wrote: actually he had reason to believe there wouldnt be a lag problem because of the lag test. when he plays and sees that it lags he leaves. i dont see anything wrong with that. whereas i just played it out and then everyone jumped on my ass afterwards saying i was lying about the lag to downplay my loss. that aside, he did not agree to play in lag. he agreed to play liquibition. are foreigners not allowed to play in any event chinese choose to play if they dont want to deal with lag? so u got owned by 2 hatch muta under lag? | ||
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Archaic
United States4024 Posts
On March 21 2009 21:22 IdrA wrote: actually he had reason to believe there wouldnt be a lag problem because of the lag test. when he plays and sees that it lags he leaves. i dont see anything wrong with that. whereas i just played it out and then everyone jumped on my ass afterwards saying i was lying about the lag to downplay my loss. that aside, he did not agree to play in lag. he agreed to play liquibition. are foreigners not allowed to play in any event chinese choose to play if they dont want to deal with lag? I have to agree with IdrA. Have you ever tried to play relatively high level games without good latency? Even at a C- level, the difference really shines. Regular latency will give you about a 1 second response time. Sure, that may not seem like much, but opposed to a nearly instantaneous reaction, it is monumental. It is the difference between losing one straggling marine and your entire army. Running away your vessels, and getting every single one cloned and killed. The difference between a battle-winning storm and one that does nothing. Even more so, it is the difference between losing your entire economy to a harassment or a drop, compared to losing almost nothing. Try playing in LAN latency at a level higher than D, and then play battle.net at the same level, and then tell me it is the same. | ||
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