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I don't think anyone can fault Nony for wanting to play in an environment that more closely suited to what the rest of the non-Chinese world plays in and that he's been playing in for years. None of us except Ash/Nony/F91 know exactly what he said so lets not jump to conclusions. For the time being we only have Ash's word to go on, so perhaps Nony could have been a bit more diplomatic about it if we are to believe Ash. That said, I think we can all understand Nony's reasons for delaying the match to try to get more optimal conditions.
This. Everyone just stop your whining complaining and side-picking. It isn't always so that one side has to be right one has to be wrong.
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On March 22 2009 00:40 ilistis wrote:Bummer. I was planning to play basketball and then come home looking forward to this. Now, there's no liquibitio and it's too cold outside.  + Show Spoiler + Damn it, not a good weekend.
damn dude ever heard of spoilers?
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Well this sux, but shit happens.Cant wait for the series~~
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United States12607 Posts
On March 22 2009 00:36 Phyre wrote:
I don't think Ash is really out to get Nony either, just perhaps using a poor choice of words sometimes.
Are you kidding? Based on the contents of this thread, it looks like Ash has spent a good portion of the last two hours reading this thread and posting long replies to anyone who disagrees with him and defends NonY. His original post's primary purpose was clearly to insinuate that NonY was being unsportsmanlike for refusing to play in laggy conditions. Regardless of whether his account of the events is fair, it's clear that Ash entered this thread specifically to call NonY a bad sport in public. Is that really productive? Ash, what kind of a person spends two hours trying to assault someone's reputation on an online forum? Don't you have better things to do?
If anything, Ash's complaint should have been raised with the TL admins or directly to NonY. Coming directly to this thread is in very poor taste.
NonY might have been able to explain himself better at the time, but why should he be forced to play out a series in extremely laggy conditions? The game quality would be awful, he wouldn't have a chance to accurately represent his skills, and in general the excellent reputation of Liquibition would be tarnished. Given that NonY experienced lag to the extent that he considered the series totally unplayable, he really had no other choice but to hope for a reschedule under better conditions. What did you expect him to do, Ash?
NonY made the best choice for himself and the viewers. If F91 is a great competitor like his recent Liquibition series have suggested, he will also be happy with NonY's decision - in the absence of lag complaints, F91 has the opportunity for an unblemished victory.
Edit: Ash, the other problem I have with your posts is that you don't seem to acknowledge that it's possible NonY was even experiencing "unplayable lag", but instead insist he merely has an unrealistic expectation for lag. This position is completely untenable...NonY has likely played countless games with Chinese gamers in the past so he obviously knows what an acceptable level of China-US lag is. Just because "many Chinese play Koreans on iCCup" does not mean that the lag was playable for NonY.
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On March 22 2009 00:40 ilistis wrote:Bummer. I was planning to play basketball and then come home looking forward to this. Now, there's no liquibitio and it's too cold outside. + Show Spoiler + Oh, and Jangbi lost. Damn it, not a good weekend.
That was pretty messed up. After being disappointed with the prospect of no liquibition, I planned on watching the series as I've had finals all week. Use spoilers -_-;; It didn't even have anything to do with this thread. No one even knows you're an avid + Show Spoiler + fan so why mention it.
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On March 22 2009 01:04 Coca Cola Classic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2009 00:40 ilistis wrote:Bummer. I was planning to play basketball and then come home looking forward to this. Now, there's no liquibitio and it's too cold outside. + Show Spoiler + Oh, and Jangbi lost. Damn it, not a good weekend. That was pretty messed up. After being disappointed with the prospect of no liquibition, I planned on watching the series as I've had finals all week. Use spoilers -_-;; It didn't even have anything to do with this thread. No one even knows you're an avid + Show Spoiler + fan so why mention it.
I'm sorry.
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
Sort of good considering I have a lot of work XD Horray for lag!!
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Hope these unplayability issues can be resolved. That is all. I want to see seven good games.
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+ Show Spoiler +f91 will be liquibition champion forever, as no other human can survive under such extreme conditions of lag
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Look.
If I went on iccup played 2 games... LOST then made a complaint about lag.. would I get back my game back?
Its all good if Nony just said fuck this lag is unplayable then quit the game 1 minute in.
But he played TWO games.... LOST... then said fuck this lag is UNWINNABLE.
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Could be a good thing for Nony. In being more out of practice then f91, an extra week PvZ can only help Nony.
As a F91 fan.. the extra time wont help 
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
sigh. Chinese internet fail -_-
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This is sad ç__ç I hope everything goes well this week
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On March 22 2009 01:36 fearus wrote:
Look.
If I went on iccup played 2 games... LOST then made a complaint about lag.. would I get back my game back?
Its all good if Nony just said fuck this lag is unplayable then quit the game 1 minute in.
But he played TWO games.... LOST... then said fuck this lag is UNWINNABLE.
Consider that Nony is usually perceived as sportsman-like. It's not out of the question - perhaps even likely - that he wanted to play the series regardless of the lag. He wanted to show a good series of games (evidenced by the fact he had agreed prior to play out the entire series upon rescheduling). By the second game though, he could see the conditions weren't changing. Look at it from both perspectives. If he'd just quit one minute in, wouldn't that be even weirder? Imagine the reaction on TL. People wait for 2 weeks for a series of games, then Nony is like 'oh nah this is too laggy' and quits one minute in. People would have jumped all over him anyway, saying things like "he should have waited to see what the lag was like. sometimes it lags in the beginning"
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On March 22 2009 01:43 H wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2009 01:36 fearus wrote:
Look.
If I went on iccup played 2 games... LOST then made a complaint about lag.. would I get back my game back?
Its all good if Nony just said fuck this lag is unplayable then quit the game 1 minute in.
But he played TWO games.... LOST... then said fuck this lag is UNWINNABLE. Consider that Nony is usually perceived as sportsman-like. It's not out of the question - perhaps even likely - that he wanted to play the series regardless of the lag. He wanted to show a good series of games (evidenced by the fact he had agreed prior to play out the entire series upon rescheduling). By the second game though, he could see the conditions weren't changing. Look at it from both perspectives. If he'd just quit one minute in, wouldn't that be even weirder? Imagine the reaction on TL. People wait for 2 weeks for a series of games, then Nony is like 'oh nah this is too laggy' and quits one minute in. People would have jumped all over him anyway, saying things like "he should have waited to see what the lag was like. sometimes it lags in the beginning"
This.
Also, I read a post earlier, maybe Plexas? That said the Chinese's internet varies day-to-day, hour-to-hour. To add to that, we read Ash's biased reply and even though his reply he sheds light on lag spikes once every few minutes game 2. So most likely the lag varied through-out. Though I don't know why this is up for discussion, it's not even a debate. Ash just felt like trying to start a bandwagon for f91. He rides on his player's success more than any manager I've ever seen.
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Braavos36374 Posts
I think people need to realize that there are two sides to every story, and since we had no admin there we can't verify anything. Can everyone stop taking one side as 100% truth? Because more often than not usually the true story is a combination of both sides version of events.
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Wow it's really sad how few people can stay objective about this.
I mean okay its never possible to stay completely objective but its still interesting to see all these people bashing Ash like that.
Think about it:
Even if you completely take away whether or not it is ok to play with lag like that it was still unsportsmanlike from nony
Whats wrong with saying something like "Sry but the lag is really bad, can we plz delay this whole event and play it some other time?!"
Saying "fuck I never should have agreed to this" and then just leaving f91 who then has to talk to his manager just to know wtf just happened - who can you deny its not very sportsmanlike
For me personally its not about the fact that nony didnt want to play but about how he did it.
I'm sure nony got really angry for the reasons he explained, I mean everyone here I'm sure would be angry if he for example picks up a reaver and a second later it's dead even though you theoretically microed it perfectly.
I also cant agree with everything Ash said but in his case it is (although apparently not to many) also very easy to understand that he got pretty angry about nony's behavior (including the whole lag-testing thing before the games..)
Nony usually seems like a really nice guy, he just gets worked up too easily,gets angry and starts being bm, that's why people like draco or mondragon have/had some issues with him.
Nobody is not perfect, he doesn't need to be, but stop bashing Ash for being pissed about him.
And btw. don't forget that despite what happened f91 was very sportsmanlike and just agreed to restart from 0-0
"Ash just felt like trying to start a bandwagon for f91. He rides on his player's success more than any manager I've ever seen." I mean comments like that just show how few people are really able to THINK
Youre damn right Ash is biased. Of course he is because he feels like one of his friends just got fu*ked over but how can you blame him for that... no matter if hes right or wrong about that
On March 22 2009 02:00 Hot_Bid wrote:
I think people need to realize that there are two sides to every story, and since we had no admin there we can't verify anything. Can everyone stop taking one side as 100% truth? Because more often than not usually the true story is a combination of both sides version of events.
this.
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On March 21 2009 20:10 Ash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| am not saying he's a not good sport but are you going to spoil the whole schedule just because your opponent cannot provide you your "ideal environment" . If you were a real sport man you'd tolerate Maybe we have a different definitions for Sport but how many of you actually refuse to play if you don't get LL in iCCup?
Well, he kinda has a reputation to uphold being a foreigner in korea. If he gets smashed, everyone will say hes wasting his time blah blah
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oh well, I had a RL program interrupted to get home in time, but still, I'll rather watch it when they have low latency, I applaud the decision.
Go NonY!
edit: @Ash on first page: NonY might not be perfectly mannered, but the contrast is still striking when compared to Idra, and they are all we have:-p
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On March 22 2009 01:32 QuasiMachina wrote:+ Show Spoiler +f91 will be liquibition champion forever, as no other human can survive under such extreme conditions of lag
hahaha
that's awesome laggy game should be considered an extreme esport!
too bad no1 would watch... or maybe they can just air the players' reactions, haha
on a brighter note i totally thought this thread was about liquibition being out cus all i saw was the "liquibition" and "!" and i assumed it was out b4 entering the thread, heh
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EPT
