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On March 22 2009 04:58 stack wrote:
meh sum up this thread:
nony was not wrong in being mad about lag BUT he could have handled it better.
and I think its just as unfair for chinese players used to a little delay to have to play lan speeds. imo that throws them off just as much as lag does for other players. So any way you cut it...dont play one another if you want to take it so seriously.
That actually is a nice one-sentence-summary.. close thread plz? ^^
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Oh for fuck sakes.
On March 22 2009 00:48 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +I don't think anyone can fault Nony for wanting to play in an environment that more closely suited to what the rest of the non-Chinese world plays in and that he's been playing in for years. None of us except Ash/Nony/F91 know exactly what he said so lets not jump to conclusions. For the time being we only have Ash's word to go on, so perhaps Nony could have been a bit more diplomatic about it if we are to believe Ash. That said, I think we can all understand Nony's reasons for delaying the match to try to get more optimal conditions. This. Everyone just stop your whining complaining and side-picking. It isn't always so that one side has to be right one has to be wrong.
On March 21 2009 22:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 22:37 synapse wrote:
If you're playing an online match, you should realize before you challenge someone that it's going to lag - especially against a chinese player. If the chinese player can cope with the lag and Nony can't... well, guess what that means? Real lag (spikes) is inexcusable. Delay should be expected.
What Nony clearly defined was delay. If you're playing on ICCUP against a Chinese player it is only normal that there will be some 'delay' sometimes. Over the last few years the Chinese infratstructure has gotten a little bit better.
Now would everyone please STFU and encourage both players.
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I've officially lost respect for Ash.
Nony is one of the most mannered gamers.
Should be good when played, thanks for hosting, can't wait til games are truly played.
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Too much pointless hate in this thread.
I really hope you guys resolve the lag issues. Hoping for some GGs ^^
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On March 22 2009 04:39 sungohan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2009 04:24 APurpleCow wrote:On March 22 2009 03:54 sungohan wrote:On March 21 2009 20:09 Sadistx wrote:On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| I agree. Who can blame a person for not wanting to put up with 2 second delay on every order? Do you want to see good games or 1a2a3a from both players and just give up on micro altogether? Do you think Nony will complain about the lag if he won those two games? The reason why he complained is just because he lost. If he won the lag wouldn't have been an issue. However, if he believes he was losing because of the lag, then the lag is an issue. The lag is a two way street. Don't be naive, do you really think that will make a huge difference on deciding who will win? This is not Progamer scene, the skills of these two players are not that close. The lag should not be a deciding factor.
Are you for real? Of course it makes a huge difference if one of the party is used to playing under such conditions...
I know from I played vs F91 how unbearable the lag can be (delay is more the correct term, since it did not really lag, just everything took around a second to respond) Now I would probably have lost vs him anyway since hes a way better player than me, but I know the delay made my chances to win drop to zero. Its virtually impossible to play with that kind of delay when your used to instant reaction from units. At the same time as I am struggling beyond words, F91 was microing his mutas perfectly picking off all my probes one by one and that made it crystal clear to me that he is perfectly used to playing under such condition, and therefor receiving an unfair advantage.
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Yeah... pretty much, if the conditions are unplayable, it's better to wait. Decision makes sense to me.
The quotes from nony's end are a little fierce, and I think could be toned down probably, but what matters is that everything goes on. It's not as though nony is insulting F91 by doing this, at least, not intentionally.
And yeah, oystein is correct on the lag thing. I think a good comparison is if you played on 56k when other people were on cable (maybe not in starcraft, which isn't actually my gamer background, but the analogy works there too).. people would probably be freaking out as to how you could play so well on 200 ping, or whatever. This is where pings AREN'T balanced (like in FPS games, lockstep is not used for networking as it is in RTS..typically). If you're used to the environment, you play better in the environment because there isn't a change from the norm (though I'd imagine f91 lans... so, take that as you will).
Anyway, I don't see a reason to get in Nony's face about this and launch an anti-noni campaign. Sure, he might've been a bit angry, but it's certainly not enough evidence. Estro said what they thought about him, so I'd imagine he's a respectable guy as most of us believe.
Can't wait for next week! :D
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On March 22 2009 01:36 fearus wrote:
Look.
If I went on iccup played 2 games... LOST then made a complaint about lag.. would I get back my game back?
Its all good if Nony just said fuck this lag is unplayable then quit the game 1 minute in.
But he played TWO games.... LOST... then said fuck this lag is UNWINNABLE.
good
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next time-
f91: omfg it's not laggy enough i can't micro!!!!!!
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On March 22 2009 06:02 kulik- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2009 01:36 fearus wrote:
Look.
If I went on iccup played 2 games... LOST then made a complaint about lag.. would I get back my game back?
Its all good if Nony just said fuck this lag is unplayable then quit the game 1 minute in.
But he played TWO games.... LOST... then said fuck this lag is UNWINNABLE. good
Can you be more blatantly biased and hateful please? Thanks.
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i wonder if f91 is as gosu without lag
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no problem guys, hopefully the lag will go down in other attempts.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On March 22 2009 06:43 HeavOnEarth wrote:
next time-
f91: omfg it's not laggy enough i can't micro!!!!!!
Haha.
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On March 22 2009 07:23 Mobius wrote:
i wonder if f91 is as gosu without lag
Chinese gamers can play with or without lag, several foreigners made that painful experience at PGL or WCG, including Nony. Maybe F91 has an advantage with lag though.
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F91 played hundreds of offline games and online games I donot think he really gave a shit about the stuff so called LAN or NO LAN, as a good player sometime s u had to adapt yourselft to differeent circumstances.
hope things will be solved next week.
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gotta say though
even though I agree with all the people saying lag is a real disadvantage for nony, I wonder what it feels like trying to dodge storms with like 2 seconds delay ^^
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Baa?21248 Posts
I wanted to sleep till like 2, but I got up to watch this.
I demand a refund.
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bbettttter late than never I guess,
I think Nony's lag complaint is vaild
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well i gotta say no offence but every fnatic player i have ever played really has lagged, and i have no problems with playing just about anyone
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I understand both sides to this and don't think anyone acted unreasonably but you have to understand one thing about this all. Lag lowers the skill required to play the game, peroid. Sure you might argue that F91 is more skilled in laggy conditions than Nony. He probably is. But the fact that you're playing on lag just makes some strategies so much worse. The game becomes less about fast hands and reactions and more about strategy and planning. A one second delay might make any type of reaver opening worthless. Right then and there you several perfectly valid strategies not being usable because it's either too risky or to easy to counter. On the other hand mutas get harder to micro. But not really vs toss. The only muta micro you can't do vs toss in lag is the vs archon micro so the strategy is still fine basically.
I'm sure everyone allready thought about what I said but whatever side you're on in this discussion (hopefully both sides if you aren't a Nony fanboy or an angry Draco fan) you have to acknowledge the simple truth that delay is not only about who's more experienced in playing in it. It also lowers the very skillcap of the game.
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United States11393 Posts
On March 22 2009 08:32 StarBrift wrote:
I understand both sides to this and don't think anyone acted unreasonably but you have to understand one thing about this all. Lag lowers the skill required to play the game, peroid. Sure you might argue that F91 is more skilled in laggy conditions than Nony. He probably is. But the fact that you're playing on lag just makes some strategies so much worse. The game becomes less about fast hands and reactions and more about strategy and planning. A one second delay might make any type of reaver opening worthless. Right then and there you several perfectly valid strategies not being usable because it's either too risky or to easy to counter. On the other hand mutas get harder to micro. But not really vs toss. The only muta micro you can't do vs toss in lag is the vs archon micro so the strategy is still fine basically.
I'm sure everyone allready thought about what I said but whatever side you're on in this discussion (hopefully both sides if you aren't a Nony fanboy or an angry Draco fan) you have to acknowledge the simple truth that delay is not only about who's more experienced in playing in it. It also lowers the very skillcap of the game.
Try dodging storms with mutas in lag. -_-;
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EPT
