EPTLiquibition #29 - Delayed! - Page 6
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Zepish
Canada160 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On March 22 2009 02:19 Zepish wrote: Excuse me if this is a stupid question, but why aren't they playing on hamachi? I feel like it would be way less laggy, Is there something I don't know about connecting hamachi oversea? Hamachi wouldnt help, there would still be AT LEAST 250 ping to China from US. It's just the distance the signal has to travel and like 20 hops instead of 10. Try tracing your connection to a chinese city and see what the delay is. I just traced my connection to YaoYuan, and the ping is 500ms. To me that's unplayable in any game, and i'm not even a professional player. | ||
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
On March 22 2009 02:19 Zepish wrote: Excuse me if this is a stupid question, but why aren't they playing on hamachi? I feel like it would be way less laggy, Is there something I don't know about connecting hamachi oversea? im not 100% sure on this but i think china blocks hamachi and even if it didn't it wouldn't make that much of a difference in terms of lag spikes and such On March 22 2009 02:26 Sadistx wrote: Hamachi wouldnt help, there would still be AT LEAST 250 ping to China from US. It's just the distance the signal has to travel and like 20 hops instead of 10. Try tracing your connection to a chinese city and see what the delay is. u r rite but nony is not in US atm? | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On March 22 2009 00:55 JWD wrote: Are you kidding? Based on the contents of this thread, it looks like Ash has spent a good portion of the last two hours reading this thread and posting long replies to anyone who disagrees with him and defends NonY. His original post's primary purpose was clearly to insinuate that NonY was being unsportsmanlike for refusing to play in laggy conditions. Regardless of whether his account of the events is fair, it's clear that Ash entered this thread specifically to call NonY a bad sport in public. Is that really productive? Ash, what kind of a person spends two hours trying to assault someone's reputation on an online forum? Don't you have better things to do? If anything, Ash's complaint should have been raised with the TL admins or directly to NonY. Coming directly to this thread is in very poor taste. Thats interesting cause to me it seems like nony was the one who refused to properly communicate - I mean posting at TL.net while dodging ash at msn? Posting a short bm comment after game 2 and then just leaving? I do agree with your other points about Ash not considering that lag might have been a lot more severe than what he describes it to be but thats just another clear case where we just dont know and people should stop pretending they know whats going on and know that one of the two sides is clearly right and the other is clearly wrong. What I was wondering about though is that nony said that f91 nearly dropped in game 1... So to my understanding both players had to sit there, seeing a little number starting with 0:45 slowly going down... so this would be something f91 would clearly have realised as being really bad so why didnt ash mention it either he left it out trying to make a point or nony was exaggerating a bit... On March 22 2009 02:27 R3condite wrote: u r rite but nony is not in US atm? How is nony not in the US ... | ||
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pure)3.41
China154 Posts
what a poor man. let's say he was fucked up. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On March 22 2009 02:35 pure)3.41 wrote: poor F91, he had to play this game at 3am and be left without knowing anything happening. and there is another game for him the next day in China, haha. what a poor man. He's not poor at all he's makin that chedda thanks to liquibition victims | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [TSL Announcement Banning Chinese IPs] + On April 01 2008 12:03 Manifesto7 wrote: Sorry China. After extensive dicussion amongst the TSL staff, well-known gamers, and members of the Chinese gaming community, we have decided to prohibit all gamers residing in China from qualifying for the playoffs of the TSL. The reason for this is simple; game quality. There are many connection problems between Chinese IPs and European or American gamers. These problems will only be magnified when two casters and an observer are present. Rather than have issues during broadcast times, we will avoid the situation altogether. For the TSL staff, the quality of the league is paramount to the considerations of individual gamers. I apologize to those Chinese gamers who have already invested time in the league, but we felt it was better to make this clear now rather than later. Gamers are still welcome to participate in the ladder, but will not be eligible for qualification. If you have any questions of comments, please PM Manifesto7. Thank you, TSL Staff Ash you seem to be on some kind of crusade here. Every time someone hints at intolerable Chinese lag, you get defensive and saying its not their fault. Yes, we realize NonY was irritated by the lag. Who wouldn't be? When the lag test was fine and then your connection went to crap (don't try and turn the blame on NonY's, there have been 28 Liquibitions - only the ones with your player have had any lag complaints of this magnitude that I recall) and he got upset because it is unplayable at that level. Obviously it wasn't just one or two small little things, it was a big deal. Don't forget that NonY has been one of the heroes of this community and you're taking on an entire website when you try and insinuate that he has bad sportsmanship because he refuses to play in HIGHLY unfavorable conditions. That's like saying a coach is a bad sport because he doesn't want his team to play in a rain storm because he doesn't want his kids to get injure. Let's just take a quick look here:
I do see a trend forming here, and it's not crappy non-Chinese connections. | ||
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fbchicken
Vietnam8 Posts
On March 22 2009 00:09 Ash wrote: I will only say this one more time, the problem was definitely solvable had nony been patient or polite enough. It was being played on Low Latency in iCCup so for those who are going to tell everyone how Lan Latency differs from Battle net speed please stop and save your time. I personally have doubts in nony's complaint bout the lag which shouldn't happen in a Low Latency iCCup game. Maybe I should upload the replay and let everyone judge if admin allows me to do so? If my units refused to do what I told them to and my micro timing is messed up in an important game because of lag, maybe it's not that easy for me to be patient (even I'm at D/D+). I guess it's natural to get frustrated, and when frustrated one cannot deliver his best games even if the problem is then solved. And how is the replay supposed to be an evidence of lag? The replays are always smooth (correct me if I got you wrong) FPVod can help though. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On March 22 2009 02:45 JWD wrote: Judge I think you made a really nice post, but it's important to consider the benefits of involving Chinese talents in all of these "foreigner" events. China is easily the strongest SC country outside of Korea, I think its players deserve to have representation in special matches like Liquibition, assuming both players involved can accept the level of latency. I agree that they are excellent players, but they do have quite the scene of their own over there, and the latency issues are noteworthy for organizers. Unfortunately the StarCraft scene does not have the money in it like the CounterStrike scene does to co-ordinate bigger LAN events rather than online tournaments and matches. | ||
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
On March 22 2009 02:36 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: Can I ask TL why a Chinese player was allowed into Liquibition in the first place? F91 is, in my opinion, an excellent gamer, but the Chinese were banned from TSL for a reason: game quality. Shouldn't Liquibition be held to the same standard? + Show Spoiler [TSL Announcement Banning Chinese IPs] + On April 01 2008 12:03 Manifesto7 wrote: Sorry China. After extensive dicussion amongst the TSL staff, well-known gamers, and members of the Chinese gaming community, we have decided to prohibit all gamers residing in China from qualifying for the playoffs of the TSL. The reason for this is simple; game quality. There are many connection problems between Chinese IPs and European or American gamers. These problems will only be magnified when two casters and an observer are present. Rather than have issues during broadcast times, we will avoid the situation altogether. For the TSL staff, the quality of the league is paramount to the considerations of individual gamers. I apologize to those Chinese gamers who have already invested time in the league, but we felt it was better to make this clear now rather than later. Gamers are still welcome to participate in the ladder, but will not be eligible for qualification. If you have any questions of comments, please PM Manifesto7. Thank you, TSL Staff Ash you seem to be on some kind of crusade here. Every time someone hints at intolerable Chinese lag, you get defensive and saying its not their fault. Yes, we realize NonY was irritated by the lag. Who wouldn't be? When the lag test was fine and then your connection went to crap (don't try and turn the blame on NonY's, there have been 28 Liquibitions - only the ones with your player have had any lag complaints of this magnitude that I recall) and he got upset because it is unplayable at that level. Obviously it wasn't just one or two small little things, it was a big deal. Don't forget that NonY has been one of the heroes of this community and you're taking on an entire website when you try and insinuate that he has bad sportsmanship because he refuses to play in HIGHLY unfavorable conditions. That's like saying a coach is a bad sport because he doesn't want his team to play in a rain storm because he doesn't want his kids to get injure. Let's just take a quick look here:
I do see a trend forming here, and it's not crappy non-Chinese connections. There was also lag issues in the JF vs F91 series. Yeah, hopefully this gets resolved, and propos to Idra, JF, and Streok for dealing with it and showing us a few decent series. | ||
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Ry-Masta-T
United States478 Posts
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archaicon
9 Posts
I wanna see the played games still!!! | ||
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shenlong
219 Posts
i even bought beer and pizza for the event >.< well guess i'll wait for next week... f91 fighting =] btw if possible can the first replay of the series be released to the public? | ||
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sungohan
United States54 Posts
On March 21 2009 20:09 Sadistx wrote: I agree. Who can blame a person for not wanting to put up with 2 second delay on every order? Do you want to see good games or 1a2a3a from both players and just give up on micro altogether? Do you think Nony will complain about the lag if he won those two games? The reason why he complained is just because he lost. | ||
moriya
United States54 Posts
In personality, I don't think an educated man will say:"" fuck it i shouldn't have agreed to play chinese players in the first place. reschedule if you want." after his embarassed lose. Not to mention his irresponsible attitude during the game test. The question is why let such a bad-skill and bad-manner player ruin our Liquibition? | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
On March 22 2009 03:54 sungohan wrote: Do you think Nony will complain about the lag if he won those two games? The reason why he complained is just because he lost. If he won the lag wouldn't have been an issue. However, if he believes he was losing because of the lag, then the lag is an issue. | ||
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sungohan
United States54 Posts
On March 22 2009 04:24 APurpleCow wrote: If he won the lag wouldn't have been an issue. However, if he believes he was losing because of the lag, then the lag is an issue. The lag is a two way street. Don't be naive, do you really think that will make a huge difference on deciding who will win? This is not Progamer scene, the skills of these two players are not that close. The lag should not be a deciding factor. | ||
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stack
Canada348 Posts
nony was not wrong in being mad about lag BUT he could have handled it better. and I think its just as unfair for chinese players used to a little delay to have to play lan speeds. imo that throws them off just as much as lag does for other players. So any way you cut it...dont play one another if you want to take it so seriously. | ||
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