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On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :|
I agree. Who can blame a person for not wanting to put up with 2 second delay on every order? Do you want to see good games or 1a2a3a from both players and just give up on micro altogether?
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On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :|
am not saying he's a not good sport but are you going to spoil the whole schedule just because your opponent cannot provide you your "ideal environment" . If you were a real sport man you'd tolerate
Maybe we have a different definitions for Sport but how many of you actually refuse to play if you don't get LL in iCCup?
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I dunno what really happened (re: Ash), and it's too bad we can't see the games today. Hopefully next week things work out for the better
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On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 19:53 Last Romantic wrote:On March 21 2009 19:41 H wrote:On March 21 2009 19:29 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Lol Idra would have whined about lag even if it wouldn't have lagged. <3 Nony. um. have you considered that since the OP mentioned sick lag due to Chinese internet that maybe IdrA lagged against F91 IdrA mentioned that it wasn't the completely lag-free environment he's accustomed to in Korean practice houses, but there wasn't any sort of significant lag. Definitely not the unplayable situation Nony alludes to. this has been brought up before by people other than you, and IdrA disagreed with their analysis of the lag. if the progamer who's been living in Korea for what, more than 6 months, playing in a completely lag-free environment every day, has trouble playing against a Chinese player because of lag, then it looks like you're contradicting yourself. I'd say that is significant lag.
That's even more ridiculous, Idra had TL-Mani in his games against F91 playing in LL. IdrA kicked him without saying a word in the lobby and Mani wasn't even aware of the lag. Significant lag? Look at the amount of games chinese are able to play with koreans in iCCup and think again.
On March 21 2009 20:09 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| I agree. Who can blame a person for not wanting to put up with 2 second delay on every order? Do you want to see good games or 1a2a3a from both players and just give up on micro altogether?
So you think 99% of the top foreigners would be able to provide nony his ideal speed in tournaments? Feel free to prove it.
I wouldn't come up with my opinion if Strelok was the one complaining about lag against f91 because I sincerely think F91's connection was at fault at that. Thumbs up to strelok for that. But god, in this case ? No way!
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On March 21 2009 20:10 Ash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| am not saying he's a not good sport but are you going to spoil the whole schedule just because your opponent cannot provide you your "ideal environment" . If you were a real sport man you'd tolerate Maybe we have a different definitions for Sport but how many of you actually refuse to play if you don't get LL in iCCup?
What? You JUST made a 3 or 4 paragraph post detailing why you thought Nony is not a good sport, and you even summed it up with bullet points and a conclusion saying "Sportsmanship? Think twice!". A real sportsman wants to play in an ideal environment. It's great that Strelok agreed to play in lag, that's good for him. I like Strelok, he is a respectable guy. But I can also respect the decision of Nony not to play in that lag because it's unbearable for him, you should be able to too. Jeez, he's not obligated to play against a Chinese player if he perceives the lag to be terrible.
On March 21 2009 20:14 Ash wrote:
That's even more ridiculous, Idra had TL-Mani in his games against F91 playing in LL. IdrA kicked him without saying a word in the lobby and Mani wasn't even aware of the lag. Significant lag? Look at the amount of games chinese are able to play with koreans and think again.
Of course Mani didn't notice the lag. This is what I meant by "brought up by people other than you". If IdrA, who has been playing on lan latency for 6+ months, notices lag, and Manifesto, who has only ever played SC on battle.net and iccup, doesn't notice the lag, where is the surprise? The difference is in the perception. Once again, just because Chinese and Koreans CAN play games doesn't mean that an American or a Korean person is OBLIGATED to play those games against Chinese players.
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On March 21 2009 20:10 Ash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| am not saying he's a not good sport but are you going to spoil the whole schedule just because your opponent cannot provide you your "ideal environment" . If you were a real sport man you'd tolerate Maybe we have a different definitions for Sport but how many of you actually refuse to play if you don't get LL in iCCup?
I know I quit every single laddergame that don`t have LL, and every time I forget to launch with AH the Koreans who I arrange games with refuse to play. Sure maybe Nony could have handled this better (I don`t know since I wasnt there and we only have your side of the story), but the Chinese lag is world famous and you can`t really expect others to suffer in it when its at its worst, and its clearly the Chinese connections fault.
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On March 21 2009 20:14 H wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:10 Ash wrote:On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| am not saying he's a not good sport but are you going to spoil the whole schedule just because your opponent cannot provide you your "ideal environment" . If you were a real sport man you'd tolerate Maybe we have a different definitions for Sport but how many of you actually refuse to play if you don't get LL in iCCup? What? You JUST made a 3 or 4 paragraph post detailing why you thought Nony is not a good sport, and you even summed it up with bullet points and a conclusion saying "Sportsmanship? Think twice!". A real sportsman wants to play in an ideal environment. It's great that Strelok agreed to play in lag, that's good for him. I like Strelok, he is a respectable guy. But I can also respect the decision of Nony not to play in that lag because it's unbearable for him, you should be able to too. Jeez, he's not obligated to play against a Chinese player if he perceives the lag to be terrible. Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:14 Ash wrote:
That's even more ridiculous, Idra had TL-Mani in his games against F91 playing in LL. IdrA kicked him without saying a word in the lobby and Mani wasn't even aware of the lag. Significant lag? Look at the amount of games chinese are able to play with koreans and think again. Of course Mani didn't notice the lag. This is what I meant by "brought up by people other than you". If IdrA, who has been playing on lan latency for 6+ months, notices lag, and Manifesto, who has only ever played SC on battle.net and iccup, doesn't notice the lag, where is the surprise? The difference is in the perception. Once again, just because Chinese and Koreans CAN play games doesn't mean that an American or a Korean person is OBLIGATED to play those games against Chinese players.
My one and only argument would be do you seriously think 99% of the top foreigners will provide the so-called lag free games to these players(IdrA , Nony)? What's going to happen to our community if LAN latency wasnt implemented in the first place? Will the community die just because these players cant play in LAN speed? Note: F91 was even able to provide a close to lan speed game which nony refused to play in. This is an online series not a lan event FYI
On March 21 2009 20:20 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:10 Ash wrote:On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| am not saying he's a not good sport but are you going to spoil the whole schedule just because your opponent cannot provide you your "ideal environment" . If you were a real sport man you'd tolerate Maybe we have a different definitions for Sport but how many of you actually refuse to play if you don't get LL in iCCup? I know I quit every single laddergame that don`t have LL, and every time I forget to launch with AH the Koreans who I arrange games with refuse to play. Sure maybe Nony could have handled this better (I don`t know since I wasnt there and we only have your side of the story), but the Chinese lag is world famous and you can`t really expect others to suffer in it when its at its worst, and its clearly the Chinese connections fault.
Koreans refusing to play in a non lan latency game is extremely understandable. But this wasn't the case in the first place. Of course the chinese lag is world famous because that's an impression chinese has given to the world due to their past terrible connections. The connections have improved significantly since then and frankly speaking there are more people who have no problems playing the chinese than those with problems. I wouldn't say they have a godly internet connection now but it is defitenily better than you guys assume it to be. BTW, I meant LL as in Low latency instead of LAN latency 
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No suprise for me.... since nony didnt even bother to gg or something vs draco... so i definetly believe Ash that it was like that... Nony its not so cool as everybody sees him...
and definetly when i see that nony lost first game... will be also replay of this game? because its not gonna be count in liquitbition... so something like preview for it?
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Good luck fighting with biased mills Ash
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I play on laggy connections all the time for fun (I live in germany), but I would never do it with money on the line either so I can't say I blame NonY at all. Also, when I talked to him at the WCG he seemed plenty polite so I'm sure he was just getting frustrated that he couldn't play his best. I don't want to watch the games unless I know the players are on an equal playing field, so it's unfair to the players and the viewers. If it's impossible to have a lag free environment without doing only LAN games, then so be it, I'll wait until these players can be in the same room (even if that never happens). I'd rather watch nothing than an unfair fight.
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On March 21 2009 20:25 stevethemacguy wrote:
I play on laggy connections all the time for fun (I live in germany), but I would never do it with money on the line either so I can't say I blame NonY at all. Also, when I talked to him at the WCG he seemed plenty polite so I'm sure he was just getting frustrated that he couldn't play his best. I don't want to watch the games unless I know the players are on an equal playing field, so it's unfair to the players and the viewers. If it's impossible to have a lag free environment without doing only LAN games, then so be it, I'll wait until these players can be in the same room (even if that never happens). I'd rather watch nothing than an unfair fight.
isnt that lag same for both? yes u can counter that chinese are use to lag... but as ash said latency was like on original battle.net ... so something what we were playing online tournament for how long? 6 or 8 years?...
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On March 21 2009 20:25 stevethemacguy wrote:
I play on laggy connections all the time for fun (I live in germany), but I would never do it with money on the line either so I can't say I blame NonY at all. Also, when I talked to him at the WCG he seemed plenty polite so I'm sure he was just getting frustrated that he couldn't play his best. I don't want to watch the games unless I know the players are on an equal playing field, so it's unfair to the players and the viewers. If it's impossible to have a lag free environment without doing only LAN games, then so be it, I'll wait until these players can be in the same room (even if that never happens). I'd rather watch nothing than an unfair fight.
Then maybe Nony shouldn't have agreed for the showmatch in the first place? I don't think Nony was stupid enough to accept the invitation assuming that he'd be playing in a completely LL lag free game.
On March 21 2009 20:27 kulik- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:25 stevethemacguy wrote:
I play on laggy connections all the time for fun (I live in germany), but I would never do it with money on the line either so I can't say I blame NonY at all. Also, when I talked to him at the WCG he seemed plenty polite so I'm sure he was just getting frustrated that he couldn't play his best. I don't want to watch the games unless I know the players are on an equal playing field, so it's unfair to the players and the viewers. If it's impossible to have a lag free environment without doing only LAN games, then so be it, I'll wait until these players can be in the same room (even if that never happens). I'd rather watch nothing than an unfair fight. isnt that lag same for both? yes u can counter that chinese are use to lag... but as ash said latency was like on original battle.net ... so something what we were playing online tournament for how long? 6 or 8 years?...
That wasn't the case. Ironically, they were able to play in a much better environment compared to the battle net speed. It's High Latency in iCCup and you guys need to play iccup regularly if you want to know what I am talking about
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so its even better that battle.net... so where is the problem? that he is used to lan latency?? did he really expect latency vs Chinese player like on lan...
also its good to say that Nony is the chalenger if he was defender so ok i would accept his argument that chinese should play this...
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hamachi anyone?
i've no idea if that would be any better/worse but perhaps it's worth a try?
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Ash are you on a crusade against nony?
You seem hell-bent on ruining his reputation and everyone's view of him.
You should have just posted your first message and left it at that. You lost all weight in that message in my eyes because clearly you have some personal problem with him that's illustrated in your repeated posting with every post being an insult to nony.
Get off the high horse and get over whatever it is you're butthurt about, people aren't going to listen to a troll like you.
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On March 21 2009 20:20 Ash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 20:14 H wrote:On March 21 2009 20:10 Ash wrote:On March 21 2009 20:06 H wrote:
so basically because Nony doesn't want to play in a less than ideal environment he's a bad sport? that's terrible reasoning. he's not from China, he doesn't have to put up with laggy shit if he doesn't want to bother. :| am not saying he's a not good sport but are you going to spoil the whole schedule just because your opponent cannot provide you your "ideal environment" . If you were a real sport man you'd tolerate Maybe we have a different definitions for Sport but how many of you actually refuse to play if you don't get LL in iCCup? What? You JUST made a 3 or 4 paragraph post detailing why you thought Nony is not a good sport, and you even summed it up with bullet points and a conclusion saying "Sportsmanship? Think twice!". A real sportsman wants to play in an ideal environment. It's great that Strelok agreed to play in lag, that's good for him. I like Strelok, he is a respectable guy. But I can also respect the decision of Nony not to play in that lag because it's unbearable for him, you should be able to too. Jeez, he's not obligated to play against a Chinese player if he perceives the lag to be terrible. On March 21 2009 20:14 Ash wrote:
That's even more ridiculous, Idra had TL-Mani in his games against F91 playing in LL. IdrA kicked him without saying a word in the lobby and Mani wasn't even aware of the lag. Significant lag? Look at the amount of games chinese are able to play with koreans and think again. Of course Mani didn't notice the lag. This is what I meant by "brought up by people other than you". If IdrA, who has been playing on lan latency for 6+ months, notices lag, and Manifesto, who has only ever played SC on battle.net and iccup, doesn't notice the lag, where is the surprise? The difference is in the perception. Once again, just because Chinese and Koreans CAN play games doesn't mean that an American or a Korean person is OBLIGATED to play those games against Chinese players. My one and only argument would be do you seriously think 99% of the top foreigners will provide the so-called lag free games to these players(IdrA , Nony)? What's going to happen to our community if LAN latency wasnt implemented in the first place? Will the community die just because these players cant play in LAN speed? Note: F91 was even able to provide a close to lan speed game which nony refused to play in. This is an online series not a lan event FYI
actually im usually fine on iccup launcher low lat with europeans and americans, its just with eastern europeans and chinese that generally need high or extra high, and even then theres lag spikes (although not always, ive had fine games on low lat with chinese on iccup. dunno)
really no ones at fault here. people have different standards, and its very hard to play in conditions you arent used to. how happy do you think f91 would be about playing a tournament in bnet extra high latency? well for someone used to lan play all day every day laggy high lat games are just as bad.
every time this issue comes up you defend the chinese and blame the foreigners, but is it really a coincidence that every match involving chinese players has lag issues? obviously its beyond your control but stop acting like it isnt a problem.
and it wouldnt be a problem if lan speed was never implemented because everyone would be used to high lat. the problem here is playing in different conditions. when it takes your units a half second to respond to your clicks every single game, you get used to that. when they respond instantly, you get used to that. when something throws that off all of your timing in micro goes out the window. f91 is used to playing in that delay, nony isnt. if nony were used to it there would be no problem. fact is you cant expect everyone else to play at sub-optimal settings to compensate for your connection problems.
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but idra... i dont want to say that u are making excuse for u...
U knew before that game that you gonna play vs chinese guy... so u were aware of lag issue.. same as nony... so if u have problem with this u should play vs him... and dont play one game like nony and say this sucks and leave...
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im not making excuses. i never have, our games were actually pretty good lag wise once i kicked mani
im just defending nony and the situation with chinese players and lag in general.
and the argument that 'you accepted to play a chinese player so you're ok with lag' is bullshit. are foreigners just not allowed to play anything chinese players choose to enter if they dont want to deal with lag? nony did not agree to play a chinese player. he agreed to play liquibition.
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Belgium9949 Posts
On March 21 2009 21:08 kulik- wrote:
but idra... i dont want to say that u are making excuse for u...
U knew before that game that you gonna play vs chinese guy... so u were aware of lag issue.. same as nony... so if u have problem with this u should play vs him... and dont play one game like nony and say this sucks and leave...
Sorry but that's just not true. Read the text, the lagtest was fine, only the games that were played 2 days later had lag issues.
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EPT
