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On April 12 2012 07:12 Amlitzer wrote:
Yesterday's games were absolutely disgusting to say the least. Polt was clearly outplaying Parting and both Polt and 5gg were outplaying Oz yet he manages to advance due to 1.4.3 and bad maps. Blizzard better get HotS out pronto or at least release a major balance path to fix protoss, because if the matchup stays the same then I'm not going to bother watching the GSL anymore.
With the current state of the game if Naniwa can't manage to advance from his group then he should just stop trying to compete in the GSL anymore.
...you kidding me?
Saying that ForGG outplayed Oz, well for their first series is true, for the second one he just played really bad, not much to say there. Same way with Polt vs Oz, just didn't play as good as he did vs PartinG. As far as PartinG's games go... well he's the best PvT player in the world, and Polt played fantastic against him, they both showcased some top level skill, but in the end, PartinG's high templar control was just too much. Their was nothing even remotely based on balance that decided those games, instead take lesson of Polt's play because he was really, really close at pulling off a pretty big upset.
Edit: ...and don't tell me PartinG's play is not impressive, especially game one vs ForGG, he was down 90 supply at one point, and still comes back with ingenious decision making and inhumane storms. It's just that his playstyle is designed in such a way that whenever he wins in PvT (which is pretty much all the time), it just looks totally imbalanced. That doesn't mean the matchup is... only that he is.
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Honestly: Why that much whining when toss wins?
I got a ban (!!) just for saying: Medivac drops are too efficient.
Then comes a author from TL and gives us "aged whine" for 3 paragraphs, just because protoss won their group, even telling us: "PartinG and Oz proved the Terran players correct by being downright unstoppable once they had multiple bases, storm, and mass upgrades".
From these words, you must thing: Whoa, these toss must be real IMBA, winning a lot of stuff.
But the truth is: the last 2 MLGS, the IPL4 and most of the GSL in recent time were won by terran. Last toss GSL victory is over a year old - in a game thes not even that much older.
Instead of singing praises about the new toss generation that might finally win something, you start complaining.
When this GSL is again going to a terran (or zerg), will you still sing your tune?
I wish a site, that so readily bans people for saying something is OP, would not be complaining so much about game balance.
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On April 12 2012 06:17 MVTaylor wrote:
5/10 Terrans through to ro16 with IPL4 winner, Assembly winner, a GSL champion and last season ro4 being among those eliminated
4/5 Protoss through to ro16
And in the group with 2P and 2T both T go through. I think as the OP said, Polt / Parting game 1 shows you everything you need to about TvP. He didn't even need to make 1 Colossus.
This was also the first group in which a Terran lost to a Protoss. None of the Terrans who were knocked out before this group lost TvPs, and Supernova/Maru won 3 TvPs between them. TvP is actually 4-4 this season so far.
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On April 12 2012 07:24 testthewest wrote:
Honestly: Why that much whining when toss wins?
I got a ban (!!) just for saying: Medivac drops are too efficient.
Then comes a author from TL and gives us "aged whine" for 3 paragraphs, just because protoss won their group, even telling us: "PartinG and Oz proved the Terran players correct by being downright unstoppable once they had multiple bases, storm, and mass upgrades".
From these words, you must thing: Whoa, these toss must be real IMBA, winning a lot of stuff.
But the truth is: the last 2 MLGS, the IPL4 and most of the GSL in recent time were won by terran. Last toss GSL victory is over a year old - in a game thes not even that much older.
Instead of singing praises about the new toss generation that might finally win something, you start complaining.
When this GSL is again going to a terran (or zerg), will you still sing your tune?
I wish a site, that so readily bans people for saying something is OP, would not be complaining so much about game balance.
If you have one terran, like MMA or MKP or a zerg like DRG that win everything because they are extremely good and could win with any race, you can't use that as an argument. The top notch of the players are able to win even with a racial disadvantage.
Do we really need to wait for GSL round of 8 to be full of one race only to admit that there is a balance issue ?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
With the most impressive three day stretch in Starcraft II history, he showed that he belongs among the elite players of the world.
Leenock.
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dcc, the TvP difficulty/whine has been going on for a long while-not just today.
That's why its 'aged whine', not 'let's all whine now'.
If Leenock beats nada, i can see MMA getting out of the group fairly easily-as long as he can dodge a second round with squirtle, he should be fine ^_^
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On April 12 2012 07:12 Amlitzer wrote:
Yesterday's games were absolutely disgusting to say the least. Polt was clearly outplaying Parting and both Polt and 5gg were outplaying Oz yet he manages to advance due to 1.4.3 and bad maps. Blizzard better get HotS out pronto or at least release a major balance path to fix protoss, because if the matchup stays the same then I'm not going to bother watching the GSL anymore.
With the current state of the game if Naniwa can't manage to advance from his group then he should just stop trying to compete in the GSL anymore.
I didnt realise building bases decided victor, that's the only way those terrans did better, build bases undefended bases which both Oz and Parting exploited sending out hit squads of Zealots and DTs all games.
Parting totally outclassed Polt in every way during battle. Actually hit stroms - tons of them, flanked, spread his units. Polt wiffed all but 2 EMPs and only hit a few units due to PartinGs superior positioning.
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I can see this being an all Terran win group
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According to Teamliquids usual ban/warn behaviour on balance wine, OP should at least get a warning for balance wine. The first post already derailed the whole thread into a discussion between terrans who complain about their own inadequatness of playing against toss, and toss who fear that teamliquid wine's gonna cause a nerf on their race.
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Wow, even Code S players like MMA is struggling with T v P..... Shows you how fragile this match up can be in the late game....
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Parting has the best PvT in the world. And Oz is one the fastest Protoss when it comes to adopting and learning. Of course if you match those two against mid tier code S Terrans the matchup will look imba.
MKP vs Parting in gstl is a good example of end game PvT. Your army is stronger mid-game. Do a timing attack. Keep up with upgrades via double ebay. Do muti pronged attacks. Harass. Etc etc.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On April 12 2012 08:22 Dontkillme wrote:
Wow, even Code S players like MMA is struggling with T v P..... Shows you how fragile this match up can be in the late game....
MMA has never, ever been good at tvp even when terrans were dominating the mu
And he still defeated oz twice last season
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Honestly.. Terrans decided it would be a good idea to take Protoss in a macro game right when Protoss learned how good late game units can be. Don't know why Terrans stopped doing multi drops early aggression. It's like "okay, lets play tvp the protoss way, and if we lose we can always whine". There is still no stopping properly executed 1/1/1 or any stim timing attacks that would render any late game Toss useless.
If only MVP was healthy, at least terran whine would go away.
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On April 12 2012 01:45 FlamingForce wrote:
Is it just me or is there something very wrong with saying that NaDa is back in his "rightful" code S spot only to predict him to drop out of it?
Leenock is unarguably code S material. But it doesn't mean it's odd to predict him out.
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On April 12 2012 08:27 power-overwhelming wrote:
Honestly.. Terrans decided it would be a good idea to take Protoss in a macro game right when Protoss learned how good late game units can be. Don't know why Terrans stopped doing multi drops early aggression. It's like "okay, lets play tvp the protoss way, and if we lose we can always whine". There is still no stopping properly executed 1/1/1 or any stim timing attacks that would render any late game Toss useless.
If only MVP was healthy, at least terran whine would go away.
Terrans haven't stopped doing drops, Protosses have gotten better at not dying to them. That's why people are complaining. Terrans have pretty much realized that they need to outright kill Protoss in the mid-game or at least enter lategame with a large advantage. However, as players get better, then Protosses will start to stop dying to drops (see Creator, Squirtle, etc) and then Terrans will be left with no options. mvp, even when he was healthy, was never very good at TvP; it was by far his worst matchup.
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On April 12 2012 01:27 Porcelina wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 01:19 Conreik wrote:
P vs. T_T
I could'nt have made a better title. Even with godly micro, TvP seems unwinnable these days. The Protoss excuse "Yeah but if you play like a code S player, the MU is balanced" can no longer be used and I hope modifications will be made considering this MU. Last three major foreign tournaments have been won by Terran players. In all of them the Terran had to beat a Code S Protoss player in order to either advance to the finals or to win the actual finals itself. Furthermore, we have seen TvPs in two other groups so far this season, which ended in Maru beating HerO 2-1 and SuperNova beating Genius with the same score. Such a small sample size, but saying that a matchup seems unwinnable just based on one group when in fact all recent tournament results between Code S players have pointed in the opposite direction seems ludicrous.
well when you look at the victory from terran players for both series mentionned above. all before 18 minutes. people are not complaining on the overall balance but on the fact that a protoss late-game has deathball and terran doesn't, plus upgrades effect. late game the match-up is most likely unwinnable
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On April 12 2012 08:24 Lawliet wrote:
Parting has the best PvT in the world. And Oz is one the fastest Protoss when it comes to adopting and learning. Of course if you match those two against mid tier code S Terrans the matchup will look imba.
MKP vs Parting in gstl is a good example of end game PvT. Your army is stronger mid-game. Do a timing attack. Keep up with upgrades via double ebay. Do muti pronged attacks. Harass. Etc etc.
Part of the solution? maybe. but still terran has to do a LOT more. while protoss only needs to sit back expand defend drops and macro. that's annoying! i'm playing zergs so the match-up doesn't affect me. but i watch stream and top Code S terran struggle vs Protoss overall
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On April 12 2012 08:02 GTPGlitch wrote:
dcc, the TvP difficulty/whine has been going on for a long while-not just today.
That's why its 'aged whine', not 'let's all whine now'.
If Leenock beats nada, i can see MMA getting out of the group fairly easily-as long as he can dodge a second round with squirtle, he should be fine ^_^
Yeah you may be right. But I think my point still stands. There isn't as much to whine about given that the Korean Terrans are winning 55% of TvP games while International Terrans are winning 61% of TvP games. It's like Bill Gates complaining that he's only making half of did a few years ago (may not actually be true, just hypothetically speaking), it's hard to feel sorry for them. Until Terran's start winning significantly (statistically significant) less than Protosses do, I don't think they should be saying anything about balance in the matchup.
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ForGG may have given Tasteless a brain tumor last night, but I think this thread is giving me one now.
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Yeah defending drops is soooo easy. Actually, protoss have a harder time dealing with drops than any other races. because they're immobile. Zealot warpins are not always available and only efficient in the late game and blink doesn't isnta transport you under medivacs. Preventing a drop is much harder than you might think if you don't have creep + lings. It's all about map awareness..
Another annoying way of dealing with protoss are Nexi snipes. Just rewatch MCvsPolt g1 at IPL4. Polt had the upgrade advantage, while MC took his 3rd earlier (up and running) + protecting it from the incoming timing push. What happened next? Mc had his army in front of his natural, leaving his 3rd nexus withouth protection. A bunch of Polt's army stimmed in, killed the Nexus in seconds and retreated. From that point on MC was on the backfoot, ultimately losing the game. Can you do that with toss? No. Even tough both have similar map control abilities, terran units are faster. If you see a hit squad of slow shooting blink stalkers, you can easily position a chunk of your army before stalkers arrive thus protecting the OC without much loses.
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EPT
